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Mother 'too stupid' to keep child

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posted on May, 31 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


A woman is about to have her child removed from her forever and all you can do is participate in fruitless banter!

Get off your backside and do something. Setup a website. Sign a petition. Make your voice heard. Just do something.

Since when does being a different nationality mean that you can just sit on your hands and argue pointlessly as another person's life is about to be devastated?

Quit bitching and do something if you really do give a damn.

You do care right?




posted on May, 31 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 



What if the gov't stepped in, said they didn't think you could raise your kids or defend yourself, then refused your right to appeal?

That happens here in America more than England.


How long before this attitude makes its way here?

It's already here.
Deny Ignorance



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by skibtz
Too stupid to reply without accusing a whole nation of being a bunch of numb-headed, heartless bumholes?

This case will no doubt cause concern and anger throughout the UK.

You will probably see real people from the UK organising real demonstrations outside real government buildings letting these tossers know what we really think.


"Concern and anger?" Where? When?
(I can see it now:
"Bloody awful about the girl up Nottingham, no?
Aye, things are not right.
'ow's the missus?
Not bad, I hope you're well.
Someone should write a letter, no?
You're right ..., those buggers.
I mustn't tarry, good day.)

The "tarnishing" has been self-inflicted, mate. You've had 3 years to do something about this.

When did you last complain to an MP or write a blog about it?

You're right there, bud, but it took a 'Yank' to get it in front of ATS. It came from "the Times." Won't anyone read you the stories?

We across the pond haven't seen you 'organise' for anything except vain pride and 'rights' that do not exist.

Please reply with links to the articles from the past 3 years that covered the "demonstrations" and "outrage" the English have revealed about this type of abuse, I'd love to see what, other than head-bowed obeisance, you blokes consider outrage and demonstration against the 'tossers.'

Deny ignorance!

jw



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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This happens in the US far more than people wish to admit, only its done in a slightly different manner. A child is born and is in fine health to either an unfortunate young or poor single mother and they literally bribe the child from the mother by offers of money and threats of court battles that she can't possibly afford. It's a sad commentary of life in both countries that this can and does occur!
Zindo



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 05:10 PM
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British social services have been removing children, mainly babies, from families with low IQ for a very long time indeed. They'll carry on doing it and getting away with it because we have a rather pathetic, closed family court system, that needs to have a radical overhaul.

If a child is at risk take them into care but social services should have real and supported evidence. let's be honest, the majority of children are removed from parental homes for very serious reasons but have we ever heard of social services making mistakes and removing children from innocent parents?? You better believe. It beggars belief, how a judge can grants care orders or even interim care orders in such cases.

It's not about some one having their eye on a baby, you only get to adopt babies you know very rarely (if you foster them). It's not about filling a quota or money, this boils down to people in power deeming who can be allowed to be parents.



[edit on 31-5-2009 by Taffygirl]



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


You are wasting time. Do something that differs from pointless finger pointing across the pond.

Do something constructive that could help this woman and her daughter.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 05:20 PM
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Situations similar to this one have been going on in the states for a few years now. Good parents live in fear of children's service's stealing their children. You're children are taken and you're guilty until proven innocent - which can take years. The more children they take the more money they get, that's the way it works in the USA.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by skibtz
reply to post by jdub297
 
A woman is about to have her child removed from her forever and all you can do is participate in fruitless banter!

Get off your backside and do something. Setup a website. Sign a petition. Make your voice heard. Just do something.
Quit bitching and do something if you really do give a damn.

You do care right?

1st, My political, social, and private affiliations and "causes" are none of your business.

2nd, I could not care less than what the English government and royalty do to the English.

However, I believe ATS, with a worldwide membership, would reach people more suitably situated to make a difference.
Thus far, it appears that I have done so.

To the extent that blind obedience to authority over there can serve as both example and warning of what it can come to here, then I am happy with the extent of my "involvement" so far.

3rd, this incident is ancient history from our perspective. We are 3 years, an ocean, a society and a justice system apart. Just how receptive an audience do you think my contributions would receive, at this late date?

What have YOU done?

Besides troll?

You are free to go about your own business now.

Or did you wish to engage in more of the 'idle chatter' that first brought this to your attention?

Deny ignorance.

jw

[edit on 31-5-2009 by jdub297]



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by kenton1234


What if the gov't stepped in, said they didn't think you could raise your kids or defend yourself, then refused your right to appeal?

That happens here in America more than England.

How long before this attitude makes its way here?


It's already here.


As an officer of the Court, child advocate, former prosecutor and volunteer, I can tell you that counsel is available for the parents and the children in every ChINS or termination case in every state of this Union.

Ever heard of 'guardian ad litem?'

Ever heard of 'social services?' "Child Advocacy?" "Children's Rights Clinic?" "Legal Aid?" "MALDEF?"

If you were deprived, it was not for want of access to a court or counsel. If you were not, you are dangerously mistaken.

Deny Ignorance!

jw



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by Taffygirl
... have we ever heard of social services making mistakes and removing children from innocent parents?

Even worse, is placing the child with foster parents of even less worthiness! I know of several cases where children have suffered horribly, even died, after being "placed" into the "care" of the state. That is another example of why I don't trust the state making personal decisions for capable adults. There are alternatives to a 'closed' system.


... this boils down to people in power deeming who can be allowed to be parents.


I agree entirely. Our priorities as a society are so out of place and misplaced.

jw



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by skibtz
reply to post by jdub297
 

You are wasting time. Do something that differs from pointless finger pointing across the pond.
Do something constructive that could help this woman and her daughter.

You are there already. Do it yourself. I will follow your lead.

You are welcome, for my bringing this to your attention.

Or are you just embarassed over having let it pass under your own nose for so long and having a Yank wave it in your (collective) face(s)?

Shame on (all of) YOU!

deny ignorance

jw



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by Sundancer
Situations similar to this one have been going on in the states for a few years now. Good parents live in fear of children's service's stealing their children. You're children are taken and you're guilty until proven innocent - which can take years. The more children they take the more money they get, that's the way it works in the USA.


What state(s), other than fear and denial, have you lived in?

There is no "they" paying states to 'take' children.

CPS must have "cause," just to investigate, much less 'steal.'

I do not agree with most CPS staffing levels, or the speed with which review is obtained in many cases, but the system works by and large to the benefit of abused and neglected children.

There are exceptions of course.

What is your alternative?

Lay it out, Holmes ( as in Oliver Wendell).

deny ignorance

jw



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by ZindoDoone
This happens in the US far more than people wish to admit, only its done in a slightly different manner. A child is born and is in fine health to either an unfortunate young or poor single mother and they literally bribe the child from the mother by offers of money and threats of court battles that she can't possibly afford. It's a sad commentary of life in both countries that this can and does occur!
Zindo


They do that in KY. If a young mother ends up in the battered women's shelter with her infant in Lexington, social services often takes the baby and places it for adoption. They claim the shelter is no place for a baby. There are a lot of people wanting to adopt babies and they'll snatch them any way they can. They had an article about it in the newspaper while back. The mothers rarely ever get their babies back because they don't have the resources to fight it.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297
What state(s), other than fear and denial, have you lived in?

There is no "they" paying states to 'take' children.

CPS must have "cause," just to investigate, much less 'steal.'

I do not agree with most CPS staffing levels, or the speed with which review is obtained in many cases, but the system works by and large to the benefit of abused and neglected children.



It happens here in KY. I know of a case where the young mother went and applied for welfare. She'd only been in town for a few days. Social services came right in and took the baby from her with false allegations and she had no means to appeal it. They basically blackmailed her from the beginning trying to get her to sign over custody, but she refused, and so they had her arrested on false charges. The baby was immediately placed in foster care with a couple wanting to adopt her. The couple was friends with the social services worker. They attacked her constantly until finally she caved in several months later and signed the adoption papers.

She was not a very intelligent woman. I tried to explain things to her, but she really was dumb; however, she loved her baby and did all she could to take care of her. The baby was healthy for the most part. She had diaper rash last time I saw her, and the mother seemed too stupid to always know when to change the diaper, but other than that the baby was well taken care of. The social worker knew they had a good mark.

Baby snatching goes on alot around here, especially young white babies. Black children are rarely touched.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297

Originally posted by Mdv2 ...in the Netherlands ... parents were told to be weak-minded and therefore not capable of caring for their newly born child ... until it was ruled that they have every right to raise their child.


As many State resources as are available in the EU and UK, you'd think this was a non-issue.

AND, since the EU/UK state-run health care system is supposed to meet everyone's needs, regardless of cost, why aren't the mother and child entitled to similar 'child-protective' services?

I will never accept that the UK should serve as an example for anything.

From what I've seen of history, things have gone downhill for the English since the Magna Carta.

Have they abandoned those principles as well?

jw


Wow, axe to grind, much?

Downhill for the English? Are you kidding? British Empire, at all? What history are you even talking about?



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by Jessicamsa
 


Story 1: If a battered mother can't protect herself, and "ends up in a shelter," how can anyone expect her to protect the child?

The legal standard for courts and guardians is "Best interest of the child," not what the battered mother wants. In many syates, placing a child in a dangerous environment is legally "child neglect" as either a misdemeanor or felony.

In my experience in the FamVio section of a major D.A.'s ofc., if a woman has been hurt enough to warrant rescue by a shelter, the child has already been hurt as well.

Story 2: A mother that isn't bright enough to know when a baby should be changed, and needs social intervention for her self, likely can't take care of an infant. Again, the standard in such cases is: "best interest of the CHILD."

ALL such cases involve not just the CPS and court, but an ad litem for the child, a doctor/psychiatrist, and an attorney for the State. All are considered 'officers of the Court', invoking certain ethical and legal standards, not an obligation to the State.

CPS is only a witness. The mother can call witnesses, prove her care is in the child's best interest.

I know CPS often makes mistakes.

If I had to guess, more children die at the hands of inept, neglectful or evil parents than at the hands of CPS/fosater families.

If you know better, then you tell me the system you want watching out for children.

Same goes for everyone of you who cry about "stealing children."

Tell me. How we should protect innocent children from incapable or criminal parents?

Give me a system that works better than what we've got.

Donate $5 to it if you can identify it.

Post here about SPECIFIC abuses, not mom's you feel sorry for.

Do it now.

jw

[edit on 31-5-2009 by jdub297]



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by The Last Man on Earth
 

The British people have been "subjects" to the sovereign longer than we've been a former colony. Having an"Empire" does not equate with justice.

Hannibal, Attila, Augustus and Nero Caesar, Adolf Hitler all had "Empires."

Axe to grind?

I am not pleased that the US is drifting so far from a republican form of government that we may never return to it.

That many of those leading the way to socialism point to Europe and the UK as exemplars, gives me an axe, and I'll grind it into a spear.

Deny ignorance.

jw



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297
How long before this attitude makes its way here?
women.timesonline.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)


It already has, remember the kid that is being forced to take chemo therapy? The government knows best



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by yellowcard
 
It's not always cut and dried is it?

Remeber the girl who went into diabetic coma when her parents decided to 'lay hands' and pray, instead of give her insulin? By the time a relative 1,200 miles away got ahold of authorities, she was dead.

I want the state to stay out of my life. But, if what I'm doing puts a child in danger, I believe they have the right to intervene for the child.

Where it goes beyond that depends on the facts of each family; there can't be a single, 'blanket', rule.

jw



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 09:50 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 



Number of Cases per 100,000 children in the US
These numbers come from The National Center on
Child Abuse and Neglect in Washington. (NCCAN)
Recent numbers have increased significantly for CPS

Perpetrators of Maltreatment

Physical Abuse CPS 160, Parents 59
Sexual Abuse CPS 112, Parents 13
Neglect CPS 410, Parents 241
Medical Neglect CPS 14 Parents 12
Fatalities CPS 6.4, Parents 1.5

In my state foster care children who are not blond haired and blue eyed are likely to be used as lab rats by the pharmaceutical companies. Evil parents exist but over all governmental child stealing rackets beat out all but the worst parents when it comes to child abuse.



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