Disclosure Countdown...

reply to post by OneNationUnder


I'm 100% with you, OneNationUnder.

Very insightful thoughts. With such knowledge comes responsibility. Not everybody is ready for this. Most have been trained to just be non-thinking, ever-consuming and ever-entertained workers (or close-minded fanatics). Life is all death and taxes to them, and bringing up the next generation of sheep. This is not the way forward, methinks. (*)

On the matter of disclosure, I didn't think this was gonna happen on the 31st. I sure wouldn't mind, but the people above and below have other agendas and Mr. Greer is simply not on their menu, as much as he likes to think he is. He's into something a lot bigger than he thinks he is.

Disclosure will happen when the time is right for them. I agree with you that it's gonna be pretty soon, but I "fear" that some... hmmm... "rather unpleasant" things will have happened on earth before that, on a very large scale, so that some of them can quite happily show up as the saviours of our planet/species. Word is that the negative entities will show up first, to try and take advantage of things and try to propagate their stronghold on the planet.

OneNationUnder (and everybody), I wish you well and to be making positive progress in your lives,

T.


(*) Personally, I hope that I'm preparing myself in the right way. So I seek to refine and enhance my knowledge through various means. I'd rather grow some responsibility yet evolve, rather than stay all entertained-and-stupid.

Hi all, this is my first post here I believe that the Disclosure Project and Greer are totally bogus. Their efforts will amount to nothing because there is nothing our governments can disclose that we don't already know - UFO's are UFO's. What we do need, like Extraeme said, is a serious effort by our governments to investigate the UFO phenomenon.

Originally posted by Majorion
When myself and others mock Bassett, Greer, and the similar types in the ufo community, we do it for good reason. Being that these people are nothing more than charlatans,

All of us need to be careful when wielding the word charlatan.

Lets imagine for a moment that you felt UFOs were all misidentifications and other mundane observations. Now lets pretend for a moment you saw a very strange maneuvering light that made 90 degree turns, changed various colors and was roughly the angular size of a tangerine at arms length. After observing this bizarre phenomenon and escalating through possible explanations, eventually you arrive at the conclusion that it's a genuine unknown.

However as a rational individual you don't jump to the conclusion that what you observed was a "craft." You further rationalize it would be even more of a leap to say it was an "alien spacecraft." So due to this observation your position changes from UFO-skeptic to UFO-advocate.

You also contact the government to ask for meteorological data and they suggest you witnessed a lighted-radiosonde. Though helpful you realize the suggestion is incorrect based on size and maneuvers. However rather than conclude "conspiracy" you assume the person was trying to help think-up a down to earth explanation.

A "foul up" if you will.

Several months later you see this same bizarre object in the sky, performing the same maneuvers, but this time it gets much closer, within 2000 ft, lands, and looks very much like a craft! You also see "people get out" that have a somewhat bizarre'ish shape to them and their height looks wrong. These people spot you, quickly run back to their craft and dart off.

At this point, as an observer, the UFO no longer represents an "unknown" it represents a craft flown by someone. Still as a rational thinker using only what you've seen to guide your judgment, you conservatively assume the craft was a manned secret test flight by the United States Air Force & that the officers flying the craft were in some form of flight-suit. At this point you no longer advocate that UFOs represent unknown phenomenon, but rather that some UFOs, if not all, are unknown military crafts.

Based on the governments response you conclude that some small "cover-up" is underway to hide our secret aircrafts, but not to the degree others like Stanton Friedman suggest (a "cosmic watergate").

Several months pass and again at the same spot, the craft lands, but this time the occupants walk up to you. They're 4' tall and have over-sized heads. Also the proportions of their legs and arms to the rest of the body aren't human. These humanoids amazingly somehow speak English or maybe they don't speak at all, was it telepathy? After this brief conversation the little guys walk back to their craft and exit earths atmosphere, departing to who knows where.

At this point you're fully converted. You now fully believe that some UFOs are in fact extra-terrestrial in origin.

You contact the military to let them know that our territorial airspace has been violated by what appeared to be friendly creatures from another world. The military ridicules you. You try calling other different branches of the government, you submit FOIA requests for radar data, and the government continually subverts your attempts to get information. At this point you go from the "foul-up" hypothesis to the "conspiracy cover-up" hypothesis.

You contact the press. They tell you to see a shrink. After questioning what you saw, you decide to go talk at a UFO group to locate other people who have experienced the same thing. The strange part is these people give dramatically different stories. Many say the ETs were intruders who abducted them, conducting tests against their will. You start to suspect some of these people are schizophrenic and that others are simply making up stories, if only because there accounts don't match up with your experience.

So now your position is some UFOs are ET and the ETs are friendly.

This is known as "personal escalation of explanation."

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/464fe2453d13.png[/atsimg]

Now lets pretend as a fully converted believer you try to talk with an acquaintance about your experience. Most people aren't going to believe you because your subjective reality has no objectively measurable basis. So you submit yourself to polygraphs and other various truth tests, but people still don't buy it.

You write a book. Trying to get the word out to as many people as you can. Detractors start to accuse you of trying to make a profit off your "bullsh#t contrivance."

See where I'm going?

To call a person a charlatan without knowing how the person got from "here" to "there" is assuming "any one of us knows the truth!"

and their public attempts are doing anything but damage to the goal of some possible disclosure and this subject taken more seriously.

In the minds of these people they know the truth and they're trying to communicate it. Are these people nuts? Maybe. Are they telling the truth? Possibly.

Since there's so much uncertainty we shouldn't make it our goal to rip these people a new one. Rather we should accept them as a part of our cause, BUT we should communicate to them that they need to advocate a PUBLIC position that's acceptable to the lowest common denominator 'UFO advocate.' We didn't go from algebra to calculus overnight. We need baby steps.

However to call these people liars, charlatans, and other nasty things is akin to me walking in to a church and telling the pastor and his followers, "Your belief is garbage. You're all stupid and nuts!"

To question a persons beliefs is an exercise in futility. You'll burn yourself out on it.

(continued below)

[edit on 2-6-2009 by Xtraeme]

Well an ATS we are not allowed to make one line responses. So im just stretching this one out so i can say. LOL FAIL. To another false statement about getting the government to disclose their information on UFOs.

Originally posted by Majorion
They are a burden, they have their own cult, and most of us who have a real interest in this subject and want it taken seriously know that these types need to be fought, or else they'll make things even worse than they already are. This is the sad truth.

I'd caution against questioning peoples sincerity and their objectives.

I'm not suggesting that we should uncritically accept peoples claims. Absolutely we need to evaluate the evidence to see how well it holds water. Is the evidence anecdotal? What's the persons level of education? Is the person making the claim willing to sign an affidavit to the truthfulness of their statements? Will the person submit themselves to fMRI lie detector testing?

However so long as the person isn't caught actively lying or massively over-inflating the truth, they're another voice advocating our position. The trick is to convince these people to tone down the rhetoric.

Yes they may believe very strongly they know what's going on, but that's not going to help if they can't show other people how they got from A to Z.

Time and time again we've heard charlatans like Greer, Bassett and the ilk make 'claims'. And their claims and promises have all been a lie, or at best, a complete and utter failure (see; Disclosure Project).

Nearly everyone loved Greer back in 2001 when he was pushing for Senate hearings, filming documentary evidence, and holding high-profile press conferences.

We later changed our tune as we saw him shifting focus in to more questionable topics like remote-viewing, the spiritual aspect of the UFO phenomenon, and advocating the position that the government is hiding antigravitic and zero-point energy technology from the public.

His biggest sin was escalating at a rate that those of us who aren't in the know could observe and follow.

That aside, the work he contributed was extremely useful to the cause. The video testimony he's collected has done more in the last few years to convince people there's something going on than probably all the books on the subject combined, even those written by scientific and skeptically minded people like Dr. Hynek.

It's ashame that we now lambaste Greer, when really the only reason we're in disagreement is because we don't know how he got from "here" to "there" and because our own biases prevent us from following him.

Personally, I feel a strong need to fight these types, I just hope you understand me.

I do understand, you want to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Just like you I want to see progress on this subject. However I recognize the value of these people and I recognize my own limits on knowing the truth.

I haven't been abducted. I haven't had a contactee experience. I haven't even seen a UFO.

So I take a conservative, skeptical stance, but that's all it is a stance. That stance does not impart the truth. It merely prevents me from accepting a lot of garbage that I might otherwise accept as fact.

Other people potentially know quite a bit more about what's going on due to their own first hand experience. I'm not about to tear them apart for their "out-there" claims.

Measuring their credibility is important, yes, but only insomuch as to determine whether we should accept the new information they bring to the table. Their position and advocacy of UFOs is independent from their reason for advocating in favor of it.

So long as people can separate that, the reason for advocacy from the cause itself, they can be productive useful contributors. Even if we as skeptics don't buy everything they personally say or believe in.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by Xtraeme]

reply to post by Xtraeme


Hello Xtraeme, thanks for the the thoughtful responses, but I still disagree, with respect. Your first post almost seemed to deal with levels of belief, and the second was more of a technical type analysis of the situation. While I can certainly agree with some of what you say in your posts, I cant help but strongly disagree with the conclusion.

In the minds of these people they know the truth and they're trying to communicate it. Are these people nuts? Maybe. Are they telling the truth? Possibly

Not to generalize, and since we are specifically on the subject of Greer and Bassett, I dont think it matters whats in their minds, as their actions and words deem any other thing as irrelevant to the bigger picture. While we may have initially somewhat applauded Greer back in 2001 for bringing about a big number of witnesses and documenting them - even at 2001, we can still criticize strongly, as many people agree that he is the worst representative and that some of his witnesses were the wrong ones and this tainted the whole project. Whats worse is that he not only tainted the Disclosure Project but also tainted any similar efforts that may come about in the future. Putting long lost failed goals aside, Greer is indeed a charlatan. I think this article here sums up this character very well. He is ufology's own worst enemy.

However to call these people liars, charlatans, and other nasty things is akin to me walking in to a church and telling the pastor and his followers, "Your belief is garbage. You're all stupid and nuts!"

No, I disagree. I think its akin to normal modest people of faith fighting the extremists who are causing all the problems to them and the world and tainting and generalizing the modest ones.

However so long as the person isn't caught actively lying or massively over-inflating the truth, they're another voice advocating our position. The trick is to convince these people to tone down the rhetoric.

I'm sorry, we cannot even risk giving questionable people the benefit of the doubt - not for a subject like ufos. This is the precise reason why ufology is not taken seriously. This is a paranormal subject, there is an inherent giggle factor, people like Greer and Bassett are at the forefront of this giggle-factor - and the only thing one can do is to fight them, not allow them any opportunity or any support at all (no conditions). They are charlatans. I and others who have had real experiences strongly believe in this principle, most people who've had genuine experiences know for a fact that these people are nothing but cult-growing money-grabbing sensationalistic trolls who never had any experience, theyre just nutbags honestly. Did you read the latest Disclosure Project release? - 'claims' of briefing Obama and intelligence. That says it all. And this type of behavior needs to be strongly condemned. Ive seen the latest sensationalist release unsurprisingly get hyped on UFO blogs, and everyone (almost) are all duped so easily and naively by these types, and that frustrates myself and many others. There remains only one solution here for this problem.

While one may argue that Bassett may have been misinterpreted with his statements for example, its crystal clear what effect he and others have on the gullible. Look at the title of this thread; Disclosure Countdown - what does that tell you? - it makes it clear the type of message and false hopes people like Bassett and Greer are sending out and promoting. When really, all these claims and promotions are for themselves, for their own egos, for their own benefit. Theres no mistaking that this thread; 'Disclosure Countdown' is exactly the type of bad hype that Bassett and his ilk intended to bring about. And this is not a good thing at all.

Best Regards,

[edit on 2/6/09 by Majorion]

reply to post by Majorion


Hey Majorion, since we're starting to veer off topic ( since we're not really discussing disclosure related news ), I've thrown all our back and forth ( as well as some other posts ) in to a new thread called 'UFO politics: solidarity or segregation?'

My reply to your last post can be found here.

I greatly appreciate the rational and lively debate!

Best,
-X

[edit on 3-6-2009 by Xtraeme]

First off, one of the disinfnrmationist rules is to make an argument by steering to a new subject, so lets not fall for that. Second, the real problem with such an analysis is the assumption that a person needs a close encounter in order to be credible. Last, ANY type of "lie detector" test is not truely accurate or they would be admissable in court, which they are not. Regarding disclosure, I thlnk it was meant that the ball will start rolling now after the way deadline, not exactly all at once.

I don't know where the below site got their information, but it's fitting with this topic so I thought I'd throw it in. The good thing is we only need to wait a few more days to know if it's true.

The site is in the Netherlands but this along with a few other posts are in English.

UFO disclosure in France this week?

Its the time of year!

Exo Politics and The Disclosure Project are in fashion again!

I realy do hope that all the hard work from volunteers & donations to these projects are productive?

We could and probably will be counting down the days and weeks and years until disclosure......for eternity.

...I believe there is not much to be disclosed, I think the governments are too stupid to keep this all secret for many years. The more I think about it the less I see that the Earth offers to any visiting alien.

There is no proof that that there are alien UFOs, apart from fuzzy images and small white dots.......not a single believable image.

I most certainly believe in life out there amongst the stars, but they are not visiting us. We are not important, and what would they want with this disgusting, parasitical, war-mongering animals called humans?

By all means spend your life waiting on this......it ain't gonna happen. (IMHO)

Hullo

Checkout the material from the Australian Government's UFO files at

disclosureaustralia.freewebpages.org...

or Google "Disclosure Australia UFO"