Abortion Doctor George Tiller Reportedly Killed at Church

Originally posted by theknuckler
You guys keep crying about abortion, you don't know the people so it's none of your F-ing business what they do with their personal lives. Quit trying to save people with your propaganda bat# crazy god

As a Christian, I would submit that it isn't God who is bat-# crazy but rather some of his misguided followers.

This is such a clear example of a planned event. The abortion topic has been relatively quiet in the news for a while so naturally they had to do something to spark interest in it again and get people fuming. This should also provide some great fuel for the supreme court nomination process. If people stopped whining over things like abortion it would give them a cue that people are growing up. I doubt that will happen anytime soon though because everyone has to be right or they cry about it and protest things. I love the way they run all of this.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
"I, Ravenshadow13 (/realnamehere), have agreed to leave the country of the United States of America if the Supreme Court rules that abortion should be illegal, for it impinges on my rights as a woman and a human being."

Where is that right granted? It sure is not in the Constitution. Currently, it's a bad priviledge.

It is NOT your right to kill innocent unborn defensless babies.

Using your flawed logic, lets just get rid of all the murder laws on the books and make it legal. Let's just kill anyone who we don't want around.

reply to post by WhatTheory


Do you feel that all your rights are included in the constitution? Obviously they're not. That's why the constitution has an amendment for unenumerated rights.

I know you'd probably love me to leave.

But it's my body and my life, and in my opinion both of those things transcend the rules set by the country that I live in.

You know, kind of like how some guys think it's okay to break laws about murder just to kill people who they think are killing awesome masses of tissue.

By the way, you don't need an abortion doctor to miscarry your baby.
*shrug*

They are unborn. They are defenseless. They're not babies. They can't survive on their own. They have no life experiences. And up to the end of the second trimester, they really are more like animal-like tumors than humans. They have tails, they're undeveloped, they're about as human as sperm.

But honestly I don't care what you think. It's a choice. The reason people don't want it to be a choice is either 1) religiously based or 2) due to a misunderstanding of the human fetal development.

Humans think they're so different from other animals. But honestly sometimes a twin will absorb the other twin. In other species, sometimes the fetuses eat each other. In all species, the birth can fail. In some species, parents eat their young. In many species, predators will eat the young. I just don't think it's okay to tell the mother (and sometimes father) that oops, birth control failed, oops, you were raped, oops, something awful happened and now you get to have this child that you probably cannot care for, who may end up harmed, or hungry, or who might be put into an abusive family, an overcrowded foster home, who may be born with a debilitating illness that will kill them in days or months or years, painfully.

It's really just not okay. All of those things are far worse than "murdering" a chunk of tissue. You probably kill more cells everytime sunbathe, exfoliate, get an injury, get a lump removed, whatever. In all honesty, we're just large chunks of cells and tissue and organs. Adults do worse things to themselves than they could ever do by breaking up a chunk of non-self-sustaining tissue.

[edit on 5/31/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Originally posted by Night Watchman
I notice you didn't respond to the portion of my post that required some thought. Not surprising.

Did you ever think that your post was long and winded and nothing but dribble. What is not surprising is that you actually believe you said something thought provoking.

At what point does a fetus become a baby?

I don't know and IMO the distinction is irrelevant because once concieved, it's a growing life form. Is there a difference between the two or are the words different to help those who believe its ok to kill them sleep better at night.

At that point, should the "baby," be granted full human rights?

Why shouldn't it.

If so, are you also in favor of performing autopsies in all cases of miscarriages?

What the hell does this have to do with the price of cheese?

Would you charge expectant mothers with neglect should they drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes during pregnancy?

No, what a stupid question.

reply to post by WhatTheory


The point is that fetuses die from all sorts of other things, including neglect from their mother by smoking or drinking. If you think it's wrong to kill a "baby" by abortion, why isn't is wrong for the mother to kill the baby by taking part in irresponsible activities during pregnancy which have been linked to fetus death.

If you do autopsies of miscarriages, you can know how the fetus died. If it was because of human error, in theory you would want the person responsible to be charged for murder.

You're being hypocritical. But it's okay. You're also being very rude, insulting, and disrespectful to those whose ideas differ from your own, when we're listening to yours.

By the way, a cancerous tumor is a growing life form, just as much as a fetus is.



[edit on 5/31/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
But it's my body and my life, and in my opinion both of those things transcend the rules set by the country that I live in.

Ok, then keep your legs closed and then you will not have to abort your unwanted child.

So you are saying that because you took the responsibility to have a child or did something wrong which allowed you to get pregnant that gives you the right to kill another life because it's growing inside you. That is some twisted logic right there.

You know, kind of like how some guys think it's okay to break laws about murder just to kill people who they think are killing awesome masses of tissue.
They are unborn. They are defenseless. They're not babies. They can't survive on their own. They have no life experiences. And up to the end of the second trimester, they really are more like animal-like tumors than humans. They have tails, they're undeveloped, they're about as human as sperm.

Tell that to the doctor who has to puncture the babies human skull in order to suck out the brains.

So because you believe it is not human, that it's ok to kill it. So again, using your flawed logic, let's go around and kill some cute kitten babies which are about to be born. Hell, they are not human so it must be ok right?

But honestly I don't care what you think.

Could have fooled me.

It's a choice.

Yeah, for unresponisble, selfish or ignorant people.

The reason people don't want it to be a choice is either 1) religiously based or 2) due to a misunderstanding of the human fetal development.

Or 3) because it's wrong to kill life for selfish reasons.

reply to post by RRconservative

Originally posted by RRconservative


Can't say I am saddened or dissappointed by the news.

Karma is real.

i bet you arent saddened or dissappointed. i bet this murder puts a huge smile on your face actually.
beware of karma, you are celebrating the murder of someone.

what i dont understand about people who are so passionate about being anti-choice is they care so much about the life of a fetus, but they dont seem to care about the life of a child after it is born.

where is your devotion for universal health care for all children? how about a higher standard for education in america for all children?

lets fight for a better life for all kids after they are born and maybe we wouldnt see so many abortions in the usa .

All I can say was that was a very late term abortion! To me there is no difference in killing a viable human being that has crowned, the skull fractured and the brains sucked out and Tiller the baby killer getting whacked.

reply to post by WhatTheory


Primarily, then what happens when married women get pregnant with their husbands when they no longer want a child?

I also don't consider anything to be a life until it is self-sustaining.

You should listen to Miss McCain. Abstinence isn't a realistic option.

You don't need to puncture the skull to suck out the brains of the fetus during an abortion. Who told you that? You should go do some research. A lot of research. They don't even have a developed brain during the majority of the abortion period.

It's not life until it can live on it's own, or at least until it resembles a human. It's not selfish. And it's better than giving birth to a child that would suffer for it's entire life. Be it a short life before it dies of a disease, or a long life before it dies of a disease, or being born into a starving or poor family, or being born only to be left on a doorstep or thrown into some overcrowded adoption agency.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
You're being hypocritical.

Please explain how when I think it's wrong that the doctor was killed and wrong that the doctor killed babies. How on Earth is that hypocritical?

You're also being very rude, insulting, and disrespectful to those whose ideas differ from your own, when we're listening to yours.

I see......Because I don't think like you and have a different opinion, I am somehow being rude. Please, give me a break. If anything, it's just the opposite from what you stated.

Please enlighten me and tell me how I have been rude and insulting to you.

By the way, a cancerous tumor is a growing life form, just as much as a fetus is.

No it's not. I guess you also believe this cancerous growth will grow up one day and become a republican or conservative. Good grief!

reply to post by WhatTheory


The doctor didn't kill babies, he was doing his job by aborting fetuses. He didn't go up to someone's infant and stab it in the face. He did a medical procedure that is also very common in cases when fetuses are diagnosed with horrible medical conditions late in the pregnancy. The doctor was a full grown, self-sustaining human being with life experiences. The "baby" was a mass of tissue and organs.

You haven't been rude and insulting to me, you have been to others by calling their questions stupid.

I have nothing against republicans or conservatives. I have something against people like you.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
You should listen to Miss McCain. Abstinence isn't a realistic option.

Why not?
It's up to the parents to teach their kids right from wrong. It's up to the parents to teach their kids that if they get pregnant then they must take on the responsibility of raising the child instead of killing it. People NOT taking responsibility for their own actions is a major reason why the U.S. is going down the drain.

You don't need to puncture the skull to suck out the brains of the fetus during an abortion.

The doctor performed late term abortions and one method they use is to puncture the skull and suck out the brains in order to collapse the skull. So don't preach to me unless you know what you are talking about.

It's not selfish.

Yes it is.

And it's better than giving birth to a child that would suffer for it's entire life. Be it a short life before it dies of a disease, or a long life before it dies of a disease, or being born into a starving or poor family, or being born only to be left on a doorstep or thrown into some overcrowded adoption agency.

I don't even understand the thinking involved where you believe it's better for a baby to be killed instead of giving it life. WoW, that is just unbelievable. Tell your sad story to all the people who have grown up and become prosperous who have had a disease or who has been adopted.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
The doctor didn't kill babies, he was doing his job by aborting fetuses.

Huh? Now you are being disengenuous or just don't understand what you yourself believe because you are contradicting yourself. The doctor dealt with LATE term abortions and by your own definition in a previous post, this would classify the 'fetus' as a baby. He did abortions where the baby could live on it's own, yet in this post, you stated he did not kill babies. Make up your mind. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

I guess nobody else looked up the stats, so I did. less than 1% are for rape or incest, less than 7% are for health reasons (mother or baby) the other 90+% are for convenience.

link to statistics.

reply to post by WhatTheory


There are other methods that don't require the puncture of the skull for late term abortion, such as PBA.

It can't live on it's own until it's intact, done with the birthing process, disconnected from the mother.

Birth doesn't always go smoothly, even in healthy babies.

I'm done arguing with you, I have better things to do. Some women don't know that they are pregnant until they go into labor. If they found out late, they should have the same chance to abort at all other women.

But since you think no one should have this chance, arguing with you is moot. It's tiring and it's too personal for me. Until you have experience personally with abortion, I don't think you should talk, honestly.

To suggest that this murder of the doctor accomplished nothing is in error.

After all, this particular doctor won't be performing any more late term abortions.

Will he?

So how many kids have WhatTheory, RRConservative, and the rest of the pro-lifers in here adopted?

[edit on 31-5-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]

Originally posted by uncommon-sense
I guess nobody else looked up the stats, so I did. less than 1% are for rape or incest, less than 7% are for health reasons (mother or baby) the other 90+% are for convenience.

link to statistics.

Thanks for posting the link.
I really did not think it was necessary because as I stated previously, it's like providing a link proving that the sky is blue or the Earth is round. It's a given.

[edit on 5/31/2009 by WhatTheory]

Originally posted by WhatTheory


Did you ever think that your post was long and winded and nothing but dribble.

What is not surprising is that you actually believe you said something thought provoking.

What exactly is dribble? I don't imagine anything I wrote would be thought provoking to anyone who has the command of the English language that you obviously have.

I was going to respond to your juvenile post but I think it best to let your words speak for themselves. I'll leave you with this. If you are going to use a term like, "killing babies," you ought to possess the intellectual capabilities to identify exactly when a fetus becomes a baby.

I'm guessing you are about 16 years old and so I'll cut you some slack and leave you with that advice.

Peace.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by Night Watchman]