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Abortion Doctor George Tiller Reportedly Killed at Church

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posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by Jadette
Now you show your cards. Misogeny (won't keep their legs closed, bitch, hag). Hate. Ignorance. A lack of understanding of biology. Racism. Anti-social delusions. We're done talking. I have nothing to learn from you worth learning.


Ah, yes.

Burn The Witch!!

They're playing my tune. I've been labeled, God help me, labeled... I'm no better than one of those goddamned terrorists now.

Yet she'll support the ongoing slaughter of unborn humans. Somebody's priorities — not to mention moral values — are just a little whack.

— Doc Velocity




posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by cbianchi513
 


If you ask someone labeled as a Muslim terrorist, I'm sure he'll tell you that he's doing what he does, killing and sometimes even offering his life, for what he believes in.

These sorts of acts of aggression however are the very definition of terrorism, because they are designed to create fear.

And if you don't think that these fringe fanatical anti-abortionists who advocate bombing, murder and more, aren't terrorists, then you do not understand the concept clearly. For they do create fear.

In 20 years we have had 8 murders(Tiller makes 8), 17 attempted murders, 41 bombings, 175 incidents of arson, 96 attempted bombings or arson, 390 invasions, 1,400 cases of vandalism, 1,993 cases of trespassing, 100 butyric acid attacks, 659 anthrax threats, 179 cases of assault and battery, 406 death threats, four kidnappings, 151 burglaries, and 525 cases of stalking directed at abortion clinics, doctors and patients according to the National Abortion Federation.

www.prochoice.org...

If that isn't terrorism I don't know what is.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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honestly, I think that any talk of christianit belongs in the religious conspiracies section.

In this section we should only talk logic and facts.

Any doctor who performs and abortion during the 3rd trimester should be imprisoned for murder.

Nobody needs a fictional holy book full of bedtime stories to tell you anything.
Use your own mind

it's murder!



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by Jadette
In 20 years we have had 8 murders(Tiller makes 8), 17 attempted murders, 41 bombings, 175 incidents of arson, 96 attempted bombings or arson, 390 invasions, 1,400 cases of vandalism, 1,993 cases of trespassing, 100 butyric acid attacks, 659 anthrax threats, 179 cases of assault and battery, 406 death threats, four kidnappings, 151 burglaries, and 525 cases of stalking directed at abortion clinics, doctors and patients according to the National Abortion Federation.

www.prochoice.org...


Interesting stats, didn't know that
Now how many murders via abortion happened during the same timespan?



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by mike73173
reply to post by Stormdancer777
 




And since the majority of people who choose to take away the rights of another reside in the Christian right, it only makes sense to appeal to them on their own terms.

Christians are trying to protect the rights of the child, who just because you can't see him/her without ultrasound, still exists. How long past birth would it be O.K. for a doctor to kill a child, if you ran the world?



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by Jadette
 


I'm sorry, I assumed that you were a logical, reasoning human being. I felt that once you started paying attention to the man behind the curtain, you'd at least concede the possibility that (once again) the old "We should never let a good crisis go to waste" song will be playing soon in D.C. over this killing.

I hardly think that you can label an entire movement as terrorists, regardless of your own personal belief... Oh, wait... That's right....

How progressive of you!

Yes, I agree that there are extremists on both sides of the aisle... But this guy isn't Eric Rudolf, he killed one man, and will likely rot in jail for it.

I suppose there's no argument with you. You must be right, at all costs.

Please wake up... SEE what this will be turned into. Yes, it's a murder, but it will certainly have a MUCH more important "national security" implication. Surely you can see that, or are your blinders THAT effective?

You can't paint everybody with the same brush, but I'm afraid that's what's happening, as you've so aptly proven again.

I pray for BOTH men's souls, as well as our once great Republic.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:54 PM
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Mike

You are leaving conscience out,

The knowledge of good vs. evil.

[edit on 023030p://bMonday2009 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Any doctor who performs and abortion during the 3rd trimester should be imprisoned for murder.

Nobody needs a fictional holy book full of bedtime stories to tell you anything.
Use your own mind

it's murder!


Holy FREAKING CRAP Batman - MA and I agree on something. "The day I agree with YOU on anything will be the day GM goes BANKRUPT!" Oi... Just kidding.

But I totally agree - late term abortions are just wrong and are always, ALWAYS murder. Let's forget about the heartbeat, the brain activity, the full formation of body parts, use only this line of logic and think about it this way:

If the baby can be delivered AND LIVE at the same time that a late term abortion would be performed, then clearly it is MURDER to terminate the life of that child.

Seriously, if you do not see that then you're the one with the problem.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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I just gave sos37 a star
this means I have just entered the twilight zone



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


None. Because in most cases abortion is done to a fetus, which is not a baby. And the late term abortions are rare and legal. So in neither case, is it murder.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 



Anti-social delusions?

I see pro choicers as delusional, and where does love fit in here?



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777



I always like to make this point when discussing abortion.

Who gets in more trouble? Someone that kills a human embryo or someone who runs across a sea turtle egg and destroys it?

Why would a sea turtle egg get such extreme protection? It is not a sea turtle yet. ANSWER: Because it will potentially be a sea turtle.

Shouldn't a "potential" child be given the same rights as a "potential" sea turtle?


I did not know that.

I don't know what to say.



I do: sea turtles are endangered, i.e., nearly extinct, humans are not, and the penalty for destroying (please note the semantic difference) sea turtle eggs, is not death, but fines and/or jail.

From my point of view, Christianity as practiced, especially fundamentalist Christianity, has very little to do with compassion, caring or love for or of children: it is about control, especially of women. As others have noted, the vast majority of those who call themselves pro-lifers, really care nothing whatsoever about the actual lives of children once they're born, unless they can profit from them. They are also usually, ironically, among the most ardent supporters of the death penalty. Go figure.

This was a terrorist killing: the perp, Scott Roeder, was apprehended with a bomb in his vehicle: probably on his way to bomb a clinic. Christian terrorist groups such as Operation Rescue are very much alive, well, and protected in this country by redefinition: strong moral beliefs, not religious extremism, pro-life, not misogyny. In a similar way, Bush and Cheney didn't violate national and international law by torturing people, they had "policy differences" that shouldn't be "criminalized". I found it telling that a recent poll showed the most support for torture existed among church-going Christians.

Usually those who prattle the most about "accepting responsibility" shirk theirs at every turn. Educate my son or daughter about sex so they won't need to make such a difficult decision? No way, that encourages them to have non-procreational sex for fun! OMG, the horror! There are poor in my community? The shiftless jerks should get a job! My job contributes to global warming or actually harms people with its waste products? Hey, it's nothing personal, just my job, not my responsibility. My fellow church-goers spew hate against gays, jews, immigrants, whatever? I'd speak up, but I depend on these folks to buy my services or products.

Being responsible is much tougher than demanding someone else do something that is uncomfortable for them: it means doing something that is uncomfortable for you. Like keeping your nose out of other people's business, and publicly acknowledging the evil within your ranks, and eradicating it.

Pro-life is a misnomer: these people care nothing about life, more properly it should be referred to as Pro-control, Anti-sex. Look at the language used: "...keep their legs shut...do the crime, pay the time..". These thoughts are about controlling women and sex, that sex is a crime that deserves punishment. Now follow that thought out a bit: if sex is a crime whose punishment is a child, it makes sense that they don't care about other people's children once they are born...those children are tainted by the sin of the mother. the true purpose of the Pro-lifers is not to protect life, but punish sex.

So far as I can tell Scott Roeder is a "true" Christian: intolerant, unthinking, murderous, callous, and ignorant. What he did is terrorism, pure and simple, driven by the religious beliefs of an intolerant, aggressive religion. I can't see much difference between him and any garden-variety Muslim terrorist...hell, as far as I can see they both practice the same beliefs and same religion, they merely quibble over who talked to god last.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I just gave sos37 a star
this means I have just entered the twilight zone


cute



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by cbianchi513
reply to post by Jadette
 

*snip*

Yes, I agree that there are extremists on both sides of the aisle... But this guy isn't Eric Rudolf, he killed one man, and will likely rot in jail for it.

*snip*



And Shelly Shannon shot one doctor (the same one, as a matter of fact) After months of acts that in any other setting would and could only be construde as domestic terrorism. We don't know (yet) what other acts this man performed. From my experience with the people on this extreme end of this issue, it rarely STARTS with the murder of the doctor. There are acts that lead up to this.

I was very saddened yesterday when I read this news. My heart hurts for parties on both sides and my conscious is torn. Some of you who have read my previous posts on this issue know that I do have a background with Operation Rescue and close links to the people involved in this movement (although I've never met the alleged shooter). I was prompted after hearing this news to go back and re-read posts (on other forums) by my now deceased Step-Father who, if alive, would be celebrating today, I'm sure. In reading his posts, there can be no mistake made by a logical, rational person, even a Christian Pro-Life person, that the ideas behind these acts of violence ARE terrorism. Many of the writings could easily have been written by Islamic Jihadists with the simple exchange of a few words.

One good thing, Tiller was someone that these groups were after for quite some time. I major target, and now that he is out of the picture, maybe, just maybe, they will feel (for at least a while) that they have gained some victory and perhaps we won't see such acts for a while. (We can only hope, right?)

One thing that I read last night, and was a favorite of my step-father was this question:

At what age does force become a legitimate act to defend the life of a child?

This is the question that tears at my heart today. Tiller DID in fact perform late term abortions. Some advocates may want to water down the numbers, and make excuses, but the fact is they were done, and it IS a fact that these babies were not all deformed, or doomed to die anyway, nor were some of the mothers. So the question does remain, at what age of a child is force legitimate to protect them? I know what the LEGAL answer is, it is the moral answer the is difficult.

(PS, I AM Pro-Choice, please don't mistake my post as meaning something it doesn't. Being so close to this issue and looking at it from many angles, my mind is in a hundred different places right now)



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by Jadette
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 

And the late term abortions are rare and legal. So in neither case, is it murder.


Wow. I guess there's no subtlety whatsoever to your agenda... I mean, consider this:


Originally posted by sos37
If the baby can be delivered AND LIVE at the same time that a late term abortion would be performed, then clearly it is MURDER to terminate the life of that child.


With this in mind, why not "section" the mother, and save BOTH the mother and child?

Eugenics... That's why.

Keep pushing your agenda, you know your ilk will lose. It's the final death rattle of the progressives.

Sad, reminds me of a pig screaming until the last drop of blood is gone.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 



I am a pro lifer but I wouldn't hurt anyone.

To say I don't care about life?

Then we have nothing to discuss.

You have already made the judgement call.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


Free will encompasses conscience and good and evil. Its everyone's right to choose.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by cbianchi513
 


It took me several readings of your post, but I think you're saying that I'm implying that if you're anti-abortion, you're a terrorist. I'm not, I never said that in any form or way.

But if you advoctate murdering doctors, bombing clinics, throwing acid, destroying property, stalking and harassing people, trying to make them afraid, then, yes, you are a terrorist.

The majority of the Pro-life movement don't support this behavior.

As for the 'omg, the government is going to take our freedoms because...", yes, the patriot act is an abomination. I screamed and yelled about the no-fly lists and about the 'tell on your neighbor' BS and profiling and all the other crap that has come with it.

I'm not advocating that we treat the right wing extremists any different than we treat the left, and I'm not advocating the sorts of paranoid controls that the last administration was so fond of.

In your original post, you implied that this incident was some sort of false flag, but it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and have years of duck # to track it with. I'm going to feel pretty safe in calling it a duck.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by mike73173
 


Why do we have laws at all, then? Somebody is ALWAYS imposing their will on you through the law of the land. Wouldn't anarchy be so much better?!?



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:21 PM
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The doctor killed did very late term abortions, I don't approve of that. We have an organisim far to advanced to under most conditions allow an "partial birth" abortation. I find it so much bull# for others to play God, and have the supreme arrogance to tell what wemon can do on its own power, with their bodies. I find it the supreme arrogance to think some ones crime are directed by God. No doubt the killer of Tiller thought they cound were wise enough to play God. I would assume the person or persons who killed this doctor would cetainly call themselves prolive. How wonderably basic, and so simple. It gives the radical right to commit all manner of crimes, including "prolife" translates to them of taking out tho0se you don't approve of. Will the anti-choice community please grow up?



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