Mohawk Warriors vow to storm border post

reply to post by theknuckler


I got an idea, I think that the Mohawk should put up their own border guards. Perhaps force people that use the road to present a passport upon entry and if warranted search suspicious vehicles crossing their countries boarder.

Originally posted by whatukno
Your right, I'm sorry Reservations came first, perhaps they should have called Auschwitz a reservation instead of a Concentration Camp. The extermination of the Jews would have been much more palatable.

My son was at Auschwitz a month ago. We were at an art gallery on a reserve a week ago. Funny, but he didn't make the same observation as you.

Note my qualifying statements, and the fact that you can come and go on a reserve. A Jew might not share your distinction.

But hey...no appropriation of voice from me. I've simply been on a bunch of reservations. This is a 21'st century discussion we are having, and the issue of border guards carrying guns at crossings on a reservation is not the one same as resolving historic inequities.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Right, now what this has become is a discussion about the rights of a sovereign nation to not have to quarter foreign soldiers on their soil.

Perhaps the right thing to do in this situation is negotiate with the Mohawk nation to put up their own boarder guards. Instead of invading a sovereign nation with Canadian military obviously against the free will of the people.

they have every right to "smuggle", imo. they are supposedly sovereign. that means they are not bound by the white man's laws, unless they enter into an agreement or treaty specifically mentioning trade.

state of the treaty

a history of akwesasne and "smuggling"

i think we should let the indians rule us. it's their land.

[edit on 1-6-2009 by billybob]

Originally posted by billybob
they have every right to "smuggle", imo. they are supposedly sovereign. that means they are not bound by the white man's laws, unless they enter into an agreement or treaty specifically mentioning trade.

i think we should let the indians rule us. it's their land.

All people living in Canada are bound by the same laws. The Indians have special rights but not autonomy to override any laws at will.

I don't think if you manufactured goods for export and were subject to smuggling that compromised your revenues that you'd accept the explanation that the persons doing it were not bound by your laws.


Mike

Originally posted by billybob
they have every right to "smuggle", imo. they are supposedly sovereign. that means they are not bound by the white man's laws, unless they enter into an agreement or treaty specifically mentioning trade.

Thing is, it's a criminal activity, and it is recognised as such within the community as well. Some folks make a lot of money and throw it around, authority on the reserve gets challenged or compromised, folks get killed. We've seen it before.

Like I said, I'm all for a fair deal, and I've dealt with the native community on cultural and heritage issues but lawlessness isn't the answer. Besides, if the Indians want to wring retribution out of the white man, casinos are doing a pretty good job

reply to post by JWash


I have allways felt the Indians got screwed big time,I hope they win . I have Choctaw and Cherokee and hillbilly with a bit of Wales....what a mix huh !!

Is the NAU like the NSA here in "whats left of America"

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Thing is, it's a criminal activity, and it is recognised as such within the community as well.

How true. There's many hands in this industry and they're not all living on the reservation.

(from billybob's link which is worthwhile reading)

On December 21, 1999, the Canadian government announced that it was filing a lawsuit in U.S. Federal Court under the Federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) against RJR-Macdonald, Inc., RJ Reynolds Tobacco Holdings, Inc., several related companies, and the Canadian Tobacco Manufacturers Council. They claimed that the RJ Reynolds companies "defrauded the Canadian people by conspiring with known distributors and smugglers to illegally smuggle their tobacco products into Canada. Furthermore, the Government of Canada claims that the Canadian Tobacco Manufacturers Council acted as an agent for RJ Reynolds in this scheme."

Based on the affidavit of RJ Reynolds executive Leslie Thompson, who was convicted for his role in assisting a multi-million dollar smuggling network, the Canadian government is seeking at least a billion dollars in damages for lost revenue. They contend that the American tobacco manufacturer set up a company in Canada to provide tax free "export only" cigarettes which were the smuggled back into Canada. They also contend that the Canadian Tobacco Manufacturers Council, which had many RJ Reynolds executives as members, threw Canadian investigators off the trail of the tobacco companies by publishing reports that claimed the tobacco smuggling was controlled by "organized criminal groups such as the Italian Mafia, and by various gangs, including Asian, Russian, and motorcycle gangs" without mentioning any involvement by the tobacco manufacturers themselves.

www.wampumchronicles.com...

(Bolding mine)



[edit on 1/6/09 by masqua]

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


You mean Native Americans? This cold land of ours is not India.

And the natives are getting the white man back with the smokes, everyone and they mama wanna get 225 cigarettes for fifteen dollars, instead of 25 for ten.

Smart ma uckas

The Mohawks are to be respected of course but this threat is like an ant telling a buffalo it it going to bite it. The Mohawks are out of their mind if they are going to try and take on Canada.

reply to post by billybob



This may HAVE BEEN their land but obviously it is NOT anymore.

Originally posted by CreeWolf
I don't understand why when I go onto the REZ to buy my cigarettes, they have a tax-stamp on each pack. I guess, just like this Mohawk thing, they don't really have the sovereignity they were promised.

I have a great T-shirt with a picture of Sitting Bull on the front.

SURE YOU CAN TRUST THE GOVERNMENT; ASK AN INDIAN!

[edit on 1-6-2009 by CreeWolf]

Cigarettes are $10 per pack in most of Canada. The Natives make counterfeit smokes and sell them for $30 a carton in Canada after smuggling them.

I recently saw a pack of Dumaurieh that looked authentic but was counterfeit. So when you buy from a reserve and the pack looks legit that doesn't mean it is.

Originally posted by masqua

There's many hands in this industry and they're not all living on the reservation.

On December 21, 1999, the Canadian government announced that it was filing a lawsuit in U.S. Federal Court under the Federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) against RJR-Macdonald, Inc., RJ Reynolds Tobacco Holdings, Inc., several related companies, and the Canadian Tobacco Manufacturers Council. They claimed that the RJ Reynolds companies "defrauded the Canadian people by conspiring with known distributors and smugglers to illegally smuggle their tobacco products into Canada. Furthermore, the Government of Canada claims that the Canadian Tobacco Manufacturers Council acted as an agent for RJ Reynolds in this scheme."

www.wampumchronicles.com...

That's interesting. So the tobacco companies were in collusion with the smugglers to get product in consumers hands all avoiding the huge tax on them which I think is something like half of the retail price.

In the 90s the black market on cigarettes got so enormous the governments actually lowered the tax level on it dramatically. Each province had it's own taxation point, and there was inter-provincial smuggling. The lowered legal price had a negative effect on contraband as the cost difference was so little now, that it was not worth the risk for most.

At one point the government considered lowering the tax rate on booze, with the same thinking. The Native trade in this was once enormous, probably still is.


Mike

reply to post by heyo


The reason why we do not call ourselves Canadian is because we are not Canadians nor Americans we are the original place holders of this land and the government is just simply paying their rent.

Originally posted by unknown known
You mean Native Americans? This cold land of ours is not India.

Here's the deal...some folks want to be called Indians. Some want to be called Aboriginals. Some First Peoples. Some Natives. Some Native Americans, some Native Canadians. Some don't like the word native.

Most call themselves Indian, so I do too...unless told otherwise. However I refer to someone's culture or ethnicity, I do it with respect, and that generally comes across, and that's generally what's most important.

If I gave offence, then I apologise.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Having been around a bit, I can verify what you're saying. Indian, NA, whatever... some take offence but most just shrug such 'tags' off as irrelevant.

They are people like everyone else. I take severe offence at calling them a 'race'.



back on topic:

OTTAWA — The federal government won't reopen a Canada-U.S. border crossing on a native reserve in eastern Ontario until the local community accepts armed border guards at the Canadian border post on their land, Public Safety Peter Van Loan said Monday.


The federal government pre-emptively shut down the Cornwall Island, Ont., crossing shortly before midnight Sunday when Mohawks vowed to prevent Monday's planned arming of border guards on the Akwesasne reserve, which straddles the Ontario, Quebec and New York borders. Van Loan said there were no plans to reopen the crossing until the Mohawks agree to allow armed guards at the post.

www.ottawacitizen.com...

Great. Now we have a community split into two halves until they accept armed federal agents on their land.

Lovely situation sure to provide lots of anger and frustration.

Further on on the report:

Van Loan said the Conservative government was simply fulfilling a commitment made during the 2006 election to arm all border guards across the country. He said the matter was now of "implementation" and that there had been a "considerable amount of consultation" with the Akwesasne leadership, who had been offered the use of liaison officers.


The chiefs from the Mohawk band council, however, say they unsuccessfully tried to delay Monday's planned arming of border guards for at least a year. Mohawk Chief Larry King said community members have increasingly complained of their treatment at the hands of some border guards and it was best to settle these issues before border guards received guns.

So, who's telling the truth here do you figure?

Starred and flagged. This is a terrific topic. I have nothing to add because most of the posts on the first page totally express what I feel.

There is of course the issue that if there is no legal activity going on, then armed border guards do not change anything beyond cultural/psychological discomfort.

In a way it becomes an added level of enforcement of existing laws. The government is concerned about lost revenues. Some known breaches were tolerated before, not so now.

I'm guessing there might be concern for drug cartels wanting to find new inroads to Canada. With what's happening in Mexico, there is going to be a lot of tightening up of all US borders.

Mike

Ah man, I thought they were smugglin' booze and weed (smoke)... Who cares about cigarettes, thats bad for you anyways!! They're doing you all a favor... lol.

On a serious note though, I hope you do know that Native's use tobacco for almost ALL their ceremonies... i.e: healing ceremonies, sundances, inipi ceremonies, prayer ties, etc...

Here's a good example, My uncle and I use Bugle boy tobacco for our prayers and loading the chanupa. But if we don't have any around we simply take it out of cigarettes. When you speak w/ a elder, you offer them tobacco as a "monetary" compensation, if you will...

But I'm against booze, has never been good for our people.

Side note: Congrats to ALL 2009 Haskell Indian Nation University Grads!!!
i had to slip that in, since ATS hardly has threads dealing w/ native people...

I can't seem to find who asked this question but thank you in advance to whoever did...

The question that someone asked was: "What are the border patrol's gun policy? Under what circumstances are they supposed to be able to use their firearms?"

I would like to know that...

Thank you to everyone who contributed on this topic. I'm proud to see people taking interest, whether you're For or Against what the Mohawks are doing...