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The case for reincarnation / immortality

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posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:47 PM
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I don't have any personal experiences of this subject but it seems to me that reincarnation is far more likely than the other two alternatives, i.e. one being that we only have one life to live to reach some sort of nirvanic or heavenly state, and two being that we only have one life to live with nothing after we die.

When I look around at manifested nature I see nothing but cyclic returns. Whether it's the Sun rising again in the morning after a long night or the Sun returning again in the spring after a dark of winter. It makes sense to me that since we are part of nature why wouldn't our very being reflect that nature.

.

[edit on 1-6-2009 by Neo__]




posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by Neo__
 
Good thoughts and OP,my friend;

Dr Raymond Moody has several books out that span 30 years of research into near death experiences and has a lot of interesting information regarding the other side; also check out Dannion Brinkley and his numerous nde's;

In 1980 I was clinically dead for 33 minutes, and have all the proof i need that we are all eternal travellers, was shown a countless string of previous lives before this current one, and many more that lie before me as I seek to experience all things and balance the journey of my soul.

Thanks for starting this thread, and keep up the good work.

seeker


edit to add:must be a glitch this am, had to post 4 times to get this on, and now it is showing as a reply to neo instead of DD.


[edit on 6/3/2009 by the seeker_713g]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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and many more that lie before me as I seek to experience all things and balance the journey of my soul.
reply to post by the seeker_713g
 


What did you take away from this experience of seeing all your lives?

Why does a soul need to experience all these things? Why would I for instance need to experience the life of a 16th century sailor?

"Balance the journey of my soul". Now that has a nice ring to it!

Why do our lives need to be so difficult and painful? Is all that necessary?

Just wondering!



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by plumranch
 
Plumranch, I have started a new thread here www.abovetopsecret.com...
that deals with my nde; perhaps you will gain more insight there; but the soul goal is to experience all things,friend; that is how we achieve balance.

namaste.
seeker



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 06:18 PM
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This thread, Recollections of a past life in Another Planet, by ElectricUniverse:
www.abovetopsecret.com... is related. I shared something that happened over a year ago when I first saw Jim Spark's grey et script. Not only did it take my memories out of their separate boxes, and was very hard emotionally, everything broke lose in me, and floodgates of sorrow and some really turbulent emotions flowed through me, and I had my first of 3 related glimpses into one past life experience long ago. The first one merely toed into it, the second came in May of last year roughly, watching a video, and then I understood the images I'd seen in the first. I didn't have an easy effortless memory recall, but a very physically traumatic one, with this inner crumbling and dizziness and turmoil that took over a week to clear up with the big one in May. It seemed to be connected to my experiences since childhood with abductions, and probably something they showed me.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by mystiq]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 07:50 PM
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Ok, first off i want to say that i am not preaching what i am about to post this is mere information that I believe is important and relevant and i apologize if it may look like i am downplaying and personal beliefs, those are not my intentions.

I am 20 years old and recently had a spark in life in general and our purpose.. my dad had always emphasized the Hindu religion on me but i never accepted it.. i still do not i do not believe in religion as i am sure many of you do.. but i do believe in a high Consciousness Supreme being primarily in our selves .. Fast forward a little ..

I just started reading this religious text Srimad-Bhagavatam and for any one who believes in a higher Consciousness and/or unified energy it is a scared text i believe 5000 years old.. my version came in 19 volume set.. 19000 pages for 500 dollars.. i am not selling this product or endorsing it since i don't even know where online to get it.. but my father got it for me and at first i thought damn $500 but then he raised a good point .. i pay 200 dollars for a text book at Rutgers .. He got 19 nice hardcover volumes for 455.. plus tax .. it got here in three days and it was free shipping.. this got me thinking the place where my father bought it is not selling it to make a profit and that is what he later told me.. and we left it at that..

But anyway
My father also told me about ISKON and their beliefs i am not going to get into that but here is some information on what they believe in

he Seven Purposes of ISKCON

1. To systematically propagate spiritual knowledge to society at large and to educate all people in the techniques of spiritual life in order to check the imbalance of values in life and to achieve real unity and peace in the world.
2. To propagate a consciousness of Krishna (God), as it is revealed in the great scriptures of India, Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam.
3. To bring the members of the Society together with each other and nearer to Krishna, the prime entity, thus developing the idea within the members, and humanity at large, that each soul is part and parcel of the quality of Godhead (Krishna).
4. To teach and encourage the sankirtana movement, congregational chanting of the holy name of God, as revealed in the teachings of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
5. To erect for the members and for society at large a holy place of transcendental pastimes dedicated to the personality of Krishna.
6. To bring the members closer together for the purpose of teaching a simpler, more natural way of life.
7. With a view towards achieving the aforementioned purposes, to publish and distribute periodicals, magazines, books and other writings.


Anyone interested in the Srimad-Bhagavatam and want to take a gander at it i just found a link with a very good version and you don't have to pay 500 dollars..
www.srimadbhagavatam.org...


just really think people who are interested in this topic and have never heard about this should just spend 20 mins browsing the website i just found it answers a lot of questions and this scared text has never made it to the light of day..


thank you all



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by plumranch
 


The really crazy thing that I am starting to be led toward is that we actually CHOOSE to go through these experiences, much like seeker has said, to achieve balance and knowledge from ALL perspectives.

And from the info I am gathering, it appears that we as souls, have the 'potential' to learn the greatest through adversity, and even suffering, and how we deal with it and come through out the other side of it.

It sounds like each incarnation, each experience adds to the sum total, and over time we sort of "graduate" up levels, to where eventually we become higher-evolutionary souls that assist others on their journeys, and no longer necessarily feel the need to come back to this schoolyard for learning.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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What I like is that we get to enjoy keeping the integrity of our own unique individuality, and thereby get to continue to relate to others, and learn how to be better selves. I was never too comfortable with the idea of losing myself to the uberself and getting into some eternal ethereal ocean of consciousness-heaven, within which there is nothing more to do or be or accomplish, forever. That might get pretty boring, or you might eventually seek escape and have nowhere left to go - and so down we dive again for the next experience, always contributing some wonderful piece of learning which gets stored up as future treasure, the enjoyment of which never ends, and that's nice.

Some would ask me how as a Christian believer I can go for this reincarnation stuff, but the evidence is there for it. Interestingly, there's a passage in scripture, which describes coming before the "white throne" of God, where our life is evaluated, and where God says "well done you good and faithful servant, I see that you can be trusted in little things. Therefore now I will give you even greater things to do." This resonates with me in terms of the reincarnation experiences we're discussing.

I had a vision recently when meditating, that there may be a longgg lineup of souls/people waiting for their incarnation to Earth. Since this may be the one place where the opportunity for suffering is the greatest, and where the struggle between "good and evil" is the most entrenched, perhaps it is the greatest honour to be born here of all places. Me I think I might like a reprieve before heading back here to continue to help out with the great cause of Earthly transformative by the power of love. I would like to see a world wherein there is no sin or evil. Then again, maybe that's the place people are desperate to leave to get to earth who knows..?



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 10:36 PM
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Its hard to imagine, thinking that often that no matter what, I'm not coming back to this planet under any circumstances, only to find I believe your vision about how long the line up was for those to visit earth was true. Its very ironic that there are many reasons we are here, and sad that so many of us are lost, myself included, in what they should paying attention to, what lessons, and the people they need to show love to. So much we let slip by.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by the seeker_713g
reply to post by Neo__
 
Good thoughts and OP,my friend....

seeker


edit to add:must be a glitch this am, had to post 4 times to get this on, and now it is showing as a reply to neo instead of DD.


[edit on 6/3/2009 by the seeker_713g]



And here I had already said a silent 'thank-you' to Seeker. Sigh...



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by mystiq
 


"And who is my neighbor?"
Parable of the Good Sameritan, explained
www.jesuswalk.com...

So it would appear that the standard is the golden rule.


Just today I was thinking about how I would react to seeing every detail of my life upon review, and while I'm saddened about the bad parts, if not mortified by some, that I'll have to review every bit of it, there've also been a few successes, in how I treated a few people in dire need of love. It is said that we will not only see and re-evaluate all our actions, even thoughts, in every aspect and detail, but ALSO that of the impact they had on others, and even what those others may have experienced in the process, for good or for ill.

And there've been more than a few instances when I really did love my neighbor, in particular the one's who others might consider unlovable, and for a moment, in reflecting on this, I felt the joy in THEIR heart, at MY love. I would very much like to do this more often, because I would like to be loved in a very big way, like way beyond and over and above the call of duty, and let's face it, there's so little of that in our world.

In short, it's very simple, but not always easy - but we need not be at a loss about it, about what to do, why, and how, or what to focus on, or WHO to love (any one, even most of all the least lovable among us, or the risky type love, like that offered by the Good Samaritan).

/end of sermon.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 11:05 PM
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accidential double post..

Edit: So I might as well fill it with something of value..

St. Francis Prayer

Lord, make me a channel of thy peace;

that where there is hatred, I may bring love;

that where there is wrong, I may bring the spirit of forgiveness;

that where there is discord, I may bring harmony;

that where there is error, I may bring truth;

that where there is doubt, I may bring faith;

that where there is dispair, I may bring hope;

that where there are shadows, I may bring light;

that where there is sadness, I may bring JOY!

Lord, grant that I may seek rather to comfort, than to be comforted;

to understand, than to be understood;

to love, than to be loved.

For it is by self forgetting that one finds.

It is by forgiving that one is forgiven.

It is by dying that one awakens to eternal life.

Amen.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by OmegaPoint]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 11:37 PM
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That was one of my favorite ones when I went to Church for several years.

I truly don't think that prayer, or intent, matters as to the faith or spirituality a person leans towards either, or whether God is Creator/God or Source.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by mystiq
 


From all the NDE experiences I've read and heard about, it doesn't matter at all. All that matters is love, mercy, goodness, kindness. There's no harsh judgement, and from what I understand, those who did evil, they gladly offer to come back to fully experience the other side of the coin, but that's a harsh lesson to have to learn... better we choose well in the here and now. I'd like to have some fun, maybe get promoted..



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 12:54 AM
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I can chalk all of my "reincarnation" experiences up to genetic memories.

I have genetic memories flash through my consciousness often enough to say that they are normal to me.

One of my first ones was that of being a soldier in a battle with what looks in hindsight like a Roman Army, and being ran through.

As I have gotten older I have moved from the reincarnation of consciousness model through the Journey of Souls model, which I highly respect and have learned much from... (specifically how the "watchers" are short , gray, and have black holes where they should have eyes... until you get close enough to realize it's Uncle Barney).

My current model now incorporates the possibility of two models. The second being that of Genetic Memory....



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 03:08 AM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 





It sounds like each incarnation, each experience adds to the sum total, and over time we sort of "graduate" up levels, to where eventually we become higher-evolutionary souls that assist others on their journeys, and no longer necessarily feel the need to come back to this schoolyard for learning.


Agreed!

Just wondering why we all find ourselves on kindergarten Earth. But as you say there is much potential for learning here. Also for experiencing some lessons we may have missed or missed the point of in past lives.

Being in the medical field I keep wondering how the pain and suffering we all go through could possibly benefit a soul. I mean to me it is the day to day suffering and pain never ending, always the human (and animal) experience. We all participate in it sooner or certainly later. Perhaps it makes us more involved in the loving, caring experience??



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 03:17 AM
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reply to post by plumranch
 


Doesn't it always come back to Love? Love being one of the silly reasons why we would incarnate in the first place. To be here with loved ones, to experience along side of them in this strange odyssey taken of flesh and bone form.

I can tell you this, we are projecting ourselves into our physical bodies from a non-physical reality which supersedes this reality by a significant margin. We come from there, to incarnate and be a part of "here".

Reality is more then just sensory data being interpreted by our quantum brains. It is a rich wave of physical expeirences and non-physical ones moving in a synergy with everything experiencing the same subjective moment in time, as we all currently share.

Yet from our non-physical reality, all this time is irrelevant and a part of us can incarnate in the past, in the future... why?

This reality is a simulation, and a brilliantly engineered virtual reality appearing real.

It appears real, but when we die we step backwards from the body we were once projecting into, and become aware of the now "new" yet ancient non-physical reality which is where we really reside.

Now from that point we can come back and attend the show as another lifeform. Don't think all entry points are strictly Human, there are plenty more lifeform types, other worldy ones that we could also attend.

And this goes on for a seemingly infinite and eternal way. How is it possible?

Consciousness.



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 11:09 AM
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Another fascinating, short interview with the other Dr. I made reference to, Dr. Brian Weiss:



I love this guys soft, easy going demeanor, and how he classifies himself as a SCIENTIST first and foremost. Not too often we get scientists to come out so boldly and speak of these subjects IMO.



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 




Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
Another fascinating, short interview with the other Dr. I made reference to, Dr. Brian Weiss:

...


Good video DimensionalDetective, I think science is only now just starting to take the theory of recincarnation seriously. One day, I believe, science will be communicating with great beyond. It's only a matter of time that we discovery the real meaning in and behind this illusion we call reality. Through science, I believe, we'll tune into the higher vibrations and discover the more subtle reality. Then we'll begin to see that this 3rd dimensional physical plane is in fact but the effect of a so far unseen cause.

I like your avatar image by-the-way. I'll take the red pill thank-you.

- Neo



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by YouAreDreaming
 


I believe that for the most part we do return as human. This is, I believe, our lot in life this time around. The Life Essence of the Human Race has already accomplished the wheels of being sub-human, e.g. animal, vegetable and even mineral, (at least in most cases but I do know some people where I wonder...)

This time around the wheel of life is the human experience. This is where we became "The Thinker". Not that some animals don't think, I have pets and I know full well that animals are very intelligent. But humans can boast one thing over animals, we are self aware. We remember the past and we ponder the future. We can speculate rather than simply analyze an outcome. We wonder what it's all about and we dream about God in the heavens at night. I suspect that the cephalopods of the ocean, as intelligent as they are said to be, do not wonder what's beyond the rim of the ocean. But we do.

So why the illusion? Why do we keep returning to this "physical reality", this simulation cast upon the canvas of time and space (both of which are relevant only to our own perspective)? Is it always Love? Yes, it's hard not to agree with you on this. But the vast majority of our population do not "fully" realize this yet, and this in itself is likely the very reason for the need to reincarnate in the first place. Humanity, through self expressed realization needs to exhibit that Love and Service are the only true motivators or reasons to incarnate. Once we've done this, once we've walked the path of righteousness of the those who've walked before us, then and only then, perhaps, can we go Beyond the Wheel of Necessity. History, myth and religion are full of stories of Saviours who've walked this path, PROMETHEUS, HERCULES, OSIRIS, KRISHNA, BUDDHA, CHRIST, to name a few.

So what's beyond the Human kingdom of nature? Could it be that if Humanity right now representates the Mind of God then perhaps the next kingdom of nature, thy kingdom come as the Bible calls it, perhaps this next kingdom would represent the Intuition of God, the part of us that not only believes in God but knows God. God is Him, whom we breathe and move and have our being, we are literally living and having our being within a stupendous Being which, for lack of a better term, we call God.

If the humanity of the future focussed more on it's spiritual nature rather than it's physical nature, wouldn't this be like a new Heaven and a new Earth ? Could a future Humanity still reincarnate into this world, for Love and Service, yet remain focussed on the spiritual aspect of it's being? Could this make it appear that death was no more? i.e. our bodies would still die but since our prime focus is on our eternal selves then we would know that death is really but an illusion.

Cheers,

-Neo.



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