Im from china, open to talk about politics, military, economics, human rights etc...

Originally posted by CONTACT


And pls don't get me wrong, I was hoping China to improve, China govt have to face & pay attention to the problems first before things can be changed. I think this is what Chinese or anyone loved China should do, like the USA citizens scolding what their own govt did wrong, they hope for improvement.

Great remarks I have to agree with you on your remarks. You seem to have a realistic view on how things are at present. I, like you, would want my leaders to do the right things by me and to at least be honest and decent.

They hold position of power and are essentially the shepherds of the masses if you will. We can't have shepherds leaving us defenseless to the many wolves out there by corruption and trickery.

By the way, I'm in the US. If you have any questions about us feel free to ask.



[edit on 1-6-2009 by Jakes51]

Originally posted by CONTACT
(continue)


was out of that prison like building after 2 months and she said that she was very lucky. From what I know, she was!

-- what drug is with econ? Well, other than normal issues, one thing seldomly talk about is : China girl cannot move out of China easily(they have to apply for at least 7 years even after marriage), and according to the dept of statistic published in HK on 3 May 99, there was about 520,000 new babies in China that belongs to HK men unmarried, so HK men who have girlfriend that not yet have baby or wife in China should at least X10 the number, then if also counted Taiwan men...well, too long to type, sorry, anyway, money given to those girls are more than anyone think. The point is, I have reasons to believe that A LOT of girls in China were drugged on purpose; and u know who really control the drugs & the gangs?

And pls don't get me wrong, I was hoping China to improve, China govt have to face & pay attention to the problems first before things can be changed. I think this is what Chinese or anyone loved China should do, like the USA citizens scolding what their own govt did wrong, they hope for improvement.

The same suituation apply to USA saying or pushing pressure on China too. nomadTG, don't get me wrong, I agree with u about nearly everything u said here, but I have to say something about what u said " if u guys have time, i suggest u care more about your family, and let they others to solve their own problems. this world is full of problems, and u r not the one to save the world. I guess most of u are tired of paying world policing.".
Well, I have my first university degree on Asia Politics in Australia. I believed that if USA never push around to other countries'issues, me & you will probably never know the existence of this ATS forum website, and South Korea will now have millions of people starveling, and there might not be a China after World War II (we are probably speaking Japanese now).... actually I believe that a lot of freedom that we are enjoying now here in China was actually becuase USA. Think about it, China help North Korea because they were the same and walk the same path, the main reason why China is now not like North Korea is not because CCP (China govt) listen to their citizens who have no guns in their hands (eg. 4 Jun incident), so why? Let me tell u what I know, believe it or not : without USA, there will be no HK & Taiwan, without HK & Taiwan, China has already bankrupted way before 1999, it was HK & Taiwan's factories(money, managers, experience, investments...) that kept China becoming North Korea in the 90's ...

CONTACT, thanks for your contribution on this thread.

Yes, you're telling some truth here, as I said before I want the western world continue to criticize china human rights record and democracy. that gives us a leverage against CCP to force them reform

While I don't believe that the US is policing the world to help the majority, but to control them,

About Taiwan/HK part, I have nothing to say about Taiwan, But HK! the prosperity of HK is because it was the only window for china to communicate/trade with the world for 30 years. their profit was unimaginable. as the evolve of opening policy, HK has no advantage now. the central goverment are stealing money from the poor mainland to transfuse HK to make it looks prosperous, this is a typical show for the CCP to the outside ,but this won't last, and it's ugly! so HK people should feel lucky that we have one party control here(no offense for people from HK, but that's the truth)


By the way, nomadTG, may I ask u why u use the word "still", when you said "Hello CONTACT, great to know you're still in shenzhen" ?
Do I know you before? Because I really would like to have a friend like u. My e-mail : [email protected]

I rember u said in the previous post that "I was in shenzhen"

[edit on 1-6-2009 by nomadTG]

Originally posted by titorite
reply to post by nomadTG

 

Do you have any reason to dislike the CCP?

Is the CCP monitoring every communication you make with us?

What hours do you work at your job? I mean do you work 5 to 9 or from 12 am to 8 am.... that sort of thing?

Hello titorite, thanks for your attention

Here is the reason I hate CCP:

1: I wanted to join the army since I was i little kid. but they didn't accept me to enter military college just coz my grandpa was a KMT officer( who passed away before my college entrance exam). and I felt that was really ridiculous and unacceptable, I love this country and willing to contribute. so why did they reject me for such dirty reasons! that's many years ago ,and i already let it go!

2:They control media and crakdown any idea against them which makes them completely corrupted. and even against the people on some degree this part makes me hate them the most!


Im doing SOHO now, following some projects , so time is free. sometimes busy. but i have full control

[edit on 1-6-2009 by nomadTG]

[edit on 1-6-2009 by nomadTG]

[edit on 1-6-2009 by nomadTG]

[edit on 1-6-2009 by nomadTG]

Nomad,

Explain to my why Taiwan is so fearful of joining Mainland China? I am not clear on the relationship. I understand Chiang Kai Shek exiled himself and his government there when Mao took over, but why the fearfulness on the part of Taiwan?

I mean HK transitioned rather smoothly into Mainland China and wouldn't that be the same course of action used by the government today? I've been to Hong Kong about seven years ago and too me it looked as it did when the British controlled Hong Kong. The people generally appeared happy and content.

I know this is a touchy issue for you and your countrymen what is your governments view on it and how to make the transition seamless and peaceful. It is only matter of time before Taiwan becomes part of China.

Originally posted by Pamie
Thank you for posting here and sharing your perspective.

I had a question about Japan.

You said,

you'll know how much the chinese hate japan if u come to china, our generation even have a more hostile attitude against japan than the previous generation may be coz it's eaiser for people to access infos about the invasion and slaughter as internet become pop.

Could you please help me understand this dynamic more? I've always thought of China and Japan as two separate countries with different cultures (though some stereotype and merge the two). So, I respect your unique history and culture.

Still, I do not understand why China would still hate Japan. I can understand how you are learning more about your past and the war crimes, and you feel anger about those atrocities. Those feeling are to be expected.

But why continue to hate?

Maybe I'm over simplifying (so forgive me if I make a poor comparison), but I do not hate the German people because of what the Nazis/Hitler did. I never hated the Russian people during the cold war.

Could you help me understand the negative feelings between China and Japan and if these feelings are held by a majority of the population or just your generation.

Thank you.

Japan despise the whole Asia, they think them more european, this is a long story. when i tell you that china hates japan, u may understand why, but japan also hates china today and I don't understand why!

today they still admire/honor their war criminal in the WW2, this is the difference between Germany and Japan. so we don't belive they really like peace and sincerely apologize for their crime.

The majority hold hostile attitude. a lot of people even think china and Japan will go to war one day.

[edit on 1-6-2009 by nomadTG]

Originally posted by Jakes51
Nomad,

Explain to my why Taiwan is so fearful of joining Mainland China? I am not clear on the relationship. I understand Chiang Kai Shek exiled himself and his government there when Mao took over, but why the fearfulness on the part of Taiwan?

I mean HK transitioned rather smoothly into Mainland China and wouldn't that be the same course of action used by the government today? I've been to Hong Kong about seven years ago and too me it looked as it did when the British controlled Hong Kong. The people generally appeared happy and content.

I know this is a touchy issue for you and your countrymen what is your governments view on it and how to make the transition seamless and peaceful. It is only matter of time before Taiwan becomes part of China.

Taiwan Issue is a civil war that didn't finished 50 years ago

Taiwan Issue is a legacy of the cold war

Taiwan is an unsinkable aircract carrier for US to leverage china

Taiwan is an important point in the first island chain for US to block china

Taiwan seperate from the mainland with the 200km taiwan straight

that's why it's different from HK. people believe if china is strong enough, then it's china's internal affair. if not then it's a international affair. so today we don't acctually have a taiwan issue ,but an American issue. even if china become so called democratic as the US want it. US still want the strait to keep the status quo but not reunification.

When the Jiang family/KMT ruled taiwan. they think they're the legal Govt of china, they wont unification but they need to rule, but they know that won't happen, so they wished to keep the status quo and kept telling people CCP is too crude, when the DPP take power in taiwan, they move towards independence. u know in 1994 ,more than 70% percent think them are chinese , but today then its 30%. so people in taiwan need to be reeducated.

KMT take power in 2008 gives us the opportunity , so we're optimistic about the reunification

[edit on 1-6-2009 by nomadTG]

[edit on 1-6-2009 by nomadTG]

Hi Nomad... I'm a laowai/gweilo (foreigner) and am very familiar with Shenzhen. Just curious from your point of view, do you think China or the developed, western nations are more racist?

I don't mean any disrespect, but there is quite an entrenched level (on one level) of racism from my perspective...probably more overtly evident in places like Hong Kong, but the mainland is not totally innocent in this regard I believe.

Hong Kong, as you may know, Filippinos/Indonesians/Nepalese are by and large treated like third-class citizens, and there are regular occurences of abuse that come up. Also, things like some clubs/pubs...Indians/Pakistanis are told to pay exhorbitant entrance fees (basically to keep them out) while Chinese and Westerners saunter on through with noone paying or anyone batting an eyelid...then there is the general view of black people, which is to be putting it politely not so politically correct.

I'm not going to go into too much detail of occurences on the mainland, as although it is highly unlikely a foreigner would ever get bashed (though, this does happen alot in Shenzhen/Shanghai/Guangzhou etc at various clubs and pubs, but I think this is more to do with the bad behaviour of some foreigners than anything to do with racism as such), many people would have experienced incidences that had it happened in reverse in their own countries (i.e. a Chinese being treated that way in the West), there would be zero hesitation in calling 'racism'.

What are your views on who is more racist, the West, or East?I'm not stirring anything up here BTW~! Genuinely curious what you think.

Cheers

Originally posted by cloudbreak
Hi Nomad... I'm a laowai/gweilo (foreigner) and am very familiar with Shenzhen. Just curious from your point of view, do you think China or the developed, western nations are more racist?

I don't mean any disrespect, but there is quite an entrenched level (on one level) of racism from my perspective...probably more overtly evident in places like Hong Kong, but the mainland is not totally innocent in this regard I believe.

Hong Kong, as you may know, Filippinos/Indonesians/Nepalese are by and large treated like third-class citizens, and there are regular occurences of abuse that come up. Also, things like some clubs/pubs...Indians/Pakistanis are told to pay exhorbitant entrance fees (basically to keep them out) while Chinese and Westerners saunter on through with noone paying or anyone batting an eyelid...then there is the general view of black people, which is to be putting it politely not so politically correct.

I'm not going to go into too much detail of occurences on the mainland, as although it is highly unlikely a foreigner would ever get bashed (though, this does happen alot in Shenzhen/Shanghai/Guangzhou etc at various clubs and pubs, but I think this is more to do with the bad behaviour of some foreigners than anything to do with racism as such), many people would have experienced incidences that had it happened in reverse in their own countries (i.e. a Chinese being treated that way in the West), there would be zero hesitation in calling 'racism'.

What are your views on who is more racist, the West, or East?I'm not stirring anything up here BTW~! Genuinely curious what you think.

Cheers

I'd rather use the word nationalist instead of racist, chinese are more tune spiritually maybe because of the long history. but racist. no!

As for the disturbing occurences in clubs/pubs, I think it's more like people fom developed economic societies depise people from the under developed world.

Just like HK/Taiwan people depise people from mainland, ShangHainese depise people from other places of the mainland. if you you're a black people/Filippinos/Indonesians/Nepalese with American nationatity, I don't think they would depise u.

so I think it's all about money. this is human, pathetic ,ha

Very diplomatically put

You're right, there is a much higher discrimination in China based on economic perceptions, rather than skin colour.

Though, I have always found it odd how skin whitening products represent a huge multi-million dollar industry in China; many Chinese (mostly women) want their skin to be whiter, while Westerners typically want to be darker/more tanned!

Still, I'm sure you know of some pubs/clubs in Shenzhen, for example, that don't serve westerners. And they do exist. However, if a pub/club in a western country were to say exclude people based on race, then that would cause an outcry.

However, I believe it is a gray area. I am well aware that there is a minority of westerners who run amok in Shenzhen and haven't exactly been angels in their behaviour when they get on the booze. So I can't blame these establishments sometimes.

I don't think though it would be fair to say (if you are talking in general terms) that people from developed economic societies despise those from under-developed ones, because that is simply not really true~!

But I think you are talking about something to do with the possibility that SOME people who are more economically better off might think they are superior to those who aren't, if I'm reading you correctly...

Anyway, not to worry...just interested in your views. Every country has something on some level that could be deemed discriminatory I guess.



[edit on 1-6-2009 by cloudbreak]

Originally posted by cloudbreak
Very diplomatically put

You're right, there is a much higher discrimination in China based on economic perceptions, rather than skin colour.

Though, I have always found it odd how skin whitening products represent a huge multi-million dollar industry in China; many Chinese (mostly women) want their skin to be whiter, while Westerners typically want to be darker/more tanned!

Still, I'm sure you know of some pubs/clubs in Shenzhen, for example, that don't serve westerners. And they do exist. However, if a pub/club in a western country were to say exclude people based on race, then that would cause an outcry.

However, I believe it is a gray area. I am well aware that there is a minority of westerners who run amok in Shenzhen and haven't exactly been angels in their behaviour when they get on the booze. So I can't blame these establishments sometimes.

I don't think though it would be fair to say (if you are talking in general terms) that people from developed economic societies despise those from under-developed ones, because that is simply not really true~!

But I think you are talking about something to do with the possibility that SOME people who are more economically better off might think they are superior to those who aren't, if I'm reading you correctly...

Anyway, not to worry...just interested in your views. Every country has something on some level that could be deemed discriminatory I guess.



[edit on 1-6-2009 by cloudbreak]

Yes, just like u said u don't wonna stir up here. so i can only say i agree with u on your comment " Very diplomatically put"

BTW, may I know where r u from?

R u in shenzhen now or just come here occasionaly?

Hi!
China has some of the most awesome documented history on the face of the earth! Chinese astrology has been the only accurate form of astrology I have ever looked at too!( I am a double metal dog) And I LOVE your food! Thank you for your posts, I am finding them to be very informative.

I was graduating in 1989 when china's gov attacked the students. It was not that long ago, and I hope people have not forgotten

It was a wake up call to my young mind and helped me to see how much farther we all have to go as the human race.

I realize this is representing the gov and not the people at large, I hope that when reform does come to your country it comes peacefully.

Thank you for your posts! Keep on keepin on!!

reply to post by Jakes51


Thank you.
And I appreciate very much your willing to let me ask, because I really have something would like to know for a long time :

1) about the ground zero (911 WTC) site in New York, that's one of the most expensive land in the world, how come nothing build on it yet?

2) If u have any idea, could u pls tell me which suit (which model of MOPP suit or Protective Clothing) do I need in Hong Kong, if Taiwan or Korea was nuked, &/or when Earth have no magnetic field for UV/X/gamma ray?

If these are too off topic, pls e-mail me at -- [email protected]

Thanks again.

Originally posted by CONTACT
reply to post by Jakes51

 

Thank you.
And I appreciate very much your willing to let me ask, because I really have something would like to know for a long time :

1) about the ground zero (911 WTC) site in New York, that's one of the most expensive land in the world, how come nothing build on it yet?

2) If u have any idea, could u pls tell me which suit (which model of MOPP suit or Protective Clothing) do I need in Hong Kong, if Taiwan or Korea was nuked, &/or when Earth have no magnetic field for UV/X/gamma ray?

If these are too off topic, pls e-mail me at -- [email protected]

Thanks again.

Well in response to your question about a nuclear strike, in the event of a nuclear strike; you would need a Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical kit (NBC). This would include a respirator, chemical protective clothing, NBC filter, Nitrile gloves, rubber boots, duct tape, and a personal hygiene kit.

In the event, your scenario happens, you may be far enough away from the fallout if you are located in Hong Kong. It matters what way the wind is blowing on that particular day. Anyway hopefully what you say never happens, but it is probably a good idea to be prepared for anything. This is a crazy time we live in and anything could happen without warning.

I'll have to look into your 9/11 question a little further. Anyway, it's a pleasure to make your aquaintance and good questions.

Originally posted by nomadTG

Originally posted by Kalomar
hello normad
i have a question about falun gong or falun dafa as it's also called, i have some friends that traveled to china last year and they heard alot about the governement goign down heavy on this movement,
they told me some scarry stories ( not sure i belive them all) police "selling " falun gong organs to the hospitals and torturing the people who practice this type of qigong, is there any truth to the stories or is it just pure propaganda?

Since I was in Hong Kong & travelling to a few countries at those time, I was able to view lots of video & evidence & witnesses.
And since u only said "selling organs to hospitals" but not "taking organs alive without anesthesia...", u & your friends seems don't know much. Anyway, I suggest u not to ask anyone inside China on this topic again.



People always ....CCP crackdown Falung gong here. all materials are blocked but CCP doesn't torture people who practice...u need to know what Falun gong really is. as it's blocked in china, the majority don't have access the materials, I happened to download some videos and documents made by them 2 years ago...Their propaganda is anti-CCP, and Falun gong itself is nonsense and u may find it ridiculous! ...it's not a religion! the ask people to burn themselves to protest CCP policy! is this humanitarianism?! no! it's much more nasty than CCP!...In china, u can almost do anything u do in the whole world as long as u don't challenge CCP, if u do that in china , u 'r doomed!

Look nomadTG, if CCP controlled & blocked all media (& release CCP's own version inside China as I know), how could u possibly know what's really happened and what Falun gong really is? Especailly the "burn themselves to protest" incident, how could u tell a China version 911? Pls nomadTG, I suggest u not to touch this topic, even I have 3 passport, I won't say anymore.

Originally posted by Pamie
....why China would still hate Japan. I can understand how you are learning more about your past and the war crimes, and you feel anger about those atrocities. Those feeling are to be expected.
But why continue to hate?
...but I do not hate the German people because of what the Nazis/Hitler did. I never hated the Russian people during the cold war. ....
Thank you.

I don't hate Japanese that didn't involved WWII. But for most Chinese, it was because most of the Japanese soldier raped Chinese women at WWII.
U see, killing or hurting from soldiers to soldiers following orders was one thing that will be easier to forget in time, but massive rape done by each soldiers' own decision to Chinese women (not soldiers) was very different, especially involved hundred thousands of babies borned afterwards (affected generations).

I went to China 2 months ago with a tour group and one of the places we visited was an internet cafe. Fun place it was although everyone was smoking like chimineys. But I tried and tried to go to ATS and couldn't. So there it is for what it's worth.

Originally posted by nomadTG

Originally posted by Jakes51
Nomad, what do you think your country will do, in terms of North Korea? China has always been the big brother to North Korea since the days of their involvement in the Korean War. Will they join the other countries if it boils down to a military response? Or will they side with North Korea? To me, I find the rumblings on your border, as very alarming. Almost as serious as the Cuban Missle Crisis, and I believe the countries involved shouldn't take North Korea's provocations lightly. Any attack on South Korea or Japan would be economically devastating to all countries doing business in that region of the world. The economy is already in the pits. Your views? Thanks

1: This is not a another Cuba crisis, NK will never issue a war against any nation as long as no one bomb them. acctually i feel sorry for my government. we all know its a game between the super powers , if my government ever promise to protect NK from nuke attack like the us do to Japan and SK, we would never see this problem today. Kim is a dictator , i don't denny , but i don't think he is insane.

2:China will never Join any party to invade NK , I said before China prefer a nuke NK rather than a US base near the Yalu river. we sarcrifice 1 million lives too keep NATO away from the border 50 years ago, this may help u to understand. and we're very worried about the situation also. u know it is china who will see massive refuges cross the border if a war really happens , we cannot afford that , therefore we'll still try to talk them to the table

3:If US&Japan&SK really bomb NK, we'll do some undertable( I hope u understand this point , cause that's what we all do

, but send troops to Korea is unlikely, Our priority is to develop economy, NK is of course important to china , but we're dealing with a different situation here on compare to 50 years ago. things changed. If I said if US cotrol NK finally i think we will have some privity that US will keep some distance away from the border or withdrawl from then peninsula

Excellent, informed and intelligent response.

What kind of sources do you rely on to form these kind of judgments - are these issues portrayed in this fashion on your media - or are the opinions you presented in contrast to what you see on the media?

reply to post by nomadTG




Instead, I believe USA is more likely wanted to trade with more countries and with less threat or risk. What could be benefit to "control" a pool country eg.NK ; but if USA help to change a country into a more wealthy country, eg. South Korea, then both country's people will benefit a lot more, and the two country will be friends also, and to help each other in the future.




I was born in HK & have a post-grad degree in the University of Hong Kong & I also gained a MBA in Macau. Firstly, let me ask u this : there are a lot of ports geographically similar to Hong Kong that actually belongs to China all the time (HK belongs to England at that time) , why HK "was the only window for China for 30 years"?? Because HK rules by England? If so, England is the Key word, not China. Secondly, if CCP can "steal" money to make HK(which was not developed by China, and land was 50 times more expensive than anywhere in China) looks prosperous, why did CCP never do so to any city that was originally developed by China?? ...
I can write a lot on this, but basically we have very limited ways/media to know many truth about HK & Taiwan & NK & USA etc here inside China.
BTW, u said u wanted to be a soldier, u know what, I used to teach war-game & self-defense too.

Originally posted by nomadTG
About Taiwan/HK part, I have nothing to say about Taiwan, But HK! the prosperity of HK is because it was the only window for china to communicate/trade with the world for 30 years. their profit was unimaginable.

Actually HK's prosperity was mainly due to its low tax base and freedoms under British Rule. I wouldn't say it was trade wth the mainland as many foreign banks used HK as a foothold in Asia, similar to Singapore. HK industrilised in the 50's and 60's which is what the mainland has been doing since the late 80's.

If anything the CCP has been taking money out of HK.

I lived in HK when I was a kid back in the late 70's and 80's. I try and get back there at least once a year and am thinking of buying an apartment on the island near Pok Fullam

[edit on 1-6-2009 by rogue1]

Originally posted by kenton1234
I went to China 2 months ago with a tour group and one of the places we visited was an internet cafe. Fun place it was although everyone was smoking like chimineys. But I tried and tried to go to ATS and couldn't. So there it is for what it's worth.

Not sure what happened there, I could use ATS all across China from Beijing to Guangzhou, from Shanghai to Chengdu.