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Why is revenge bad?

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posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by Jakes51
 


Thanks for elaborating seems that we are on the same level of thoughts


I agree with what your saying totally the biggest person will walk away.

Karma i believe is what your talking about what goes around come around very true saying and it happens without people taking there own revenge.




posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:41 AM
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it is wrong because a person can believe they were wronged and take vengeance when in actuallity he was not harmed in the first place. this only opens up a a wild west attitude of an eye for an eye.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:50 AM
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Revenge is nothing more than getting back at someone who wronged you, it's not about justice because that would imply, well, justice. although it could be said that justice is nothing more than state sanctioned revenge i think
. As has been mentioned before even in the OP one of the big things about revenge is that it invites more revenge. Making people realize they did something bad and making them better for it is the best kind of 'revenge' you could have but that does not nessicarily imply ' getting even' in revenge.

I mean if some one else has done something to you that shakes up you life pretty badly like setting your house on fire or something. what would feel more gratifying? Setting his house on fire or making him feel guilty and ashamed for what he has done and assuring it that he will not do it ever again. The other person has to life with what he did for the rest of his live and barring mentally confused of this line of thought he will do that regularly until he dies of old age.

If you take revenge, the other person does not feel guilty for anything and may upgrade the fight into a fued, there is no better ' punishment/lesson' for a human than feeling bad about himself and what he has done. it is something that gets underestimated fairly often. Make them realize what they have done,explain it to them and make them feel so guilty they will never ever think about it again and better themselves.

[edit on 1-6-2009 by Harman]



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 11:47 AM
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Isn't forgiveness a form of revenge as well?!?! The man who took a meeting with the killer in order to tell him personally that he was forgiven, got the same satisfaction from his action as one who would kill the perpetrator. He also got to "hurt" the guilty party by making them live with their actions.

IMO, revenge is only bad if it is carried out by a neutral party. The people who are wronged, should have the option of revenge, whether that be pulling the switch on the electric chair, kidnapping the rapist and keeping them in the basement for a few months, or walking in and forgiving them in person.

It only becomes bad when a sterile, neutral party (i.e. the state) steps in and takes that right away from you and makes it their own. What right do they have to take the life of someone? What right do they have to imprison and interact with someone who harmed you?

Spiritual and Physical are indefinable as long as your spirit is trapped in the physical realm. If physical revenge provides closure for you and protection for your community so be it. If spiritual revenge, forgiveness, and elevated living provide the same so be it. As long as the victim gains justice, and the community is protected!

As for raping and killing the little girl........I am surely not as evolved as that man........It would take months and months and months of very creative one on one 'contacts' with the perpetrator in my basement before I felt any justice. Death or forgiveness is far too simple for that situation.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Goathief
what kind of society do you want to live in?

Easy there fella ... you didn't read the thread, did ya'??
I already said that I don't have an opinion one way or the other.

I'm just stating the fact.
Evolutionary psychology states revenge IS A PRIMAL HUMAN RIGHT.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 12:51 PM
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A few quotes from the Christian viewpoint.
(I'll see if I can find what Hindus and Muslims believe about 'revenge')

Old Testament - 'an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth'.. this law was enacted because revenge would get out of hand. People who were wronged would 'over revenge' back. If they had one goat stolen from them, some would in turn steal three goats from the thief.

Then Christ came along and said - "You have heard that it was said 'an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth', But I say to you .. if anyone would go to law with you and take your tunic, let him take your chloak as well; and whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two ... "

And we have St. Peter-

"Be ye all of one mind: not rendering evil for evil, nor railing for railing' but contrariwise, blessing: for untio this are you called, that you may inherit a blessing 1 Pet 3:9

'Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumnaiate you. Mat 5:44


The question - do people who follow these Christian beliefs have a right to insinuate them on others in society who aren't Christian?

Another question - even though these are Christian beliefs, should society follow them anyways because it could make for a more peaceful society?

Yet one more question - does following these really make for a more peaceful society, or does it embolden those who do evil against others?

Like I said - I'll look to see if I can find what the Hindu and Muslim views on revenge are. I dont' want anyone saying that we are being bigots here or anything.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:11 PM
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Okay ... Revenge in Islam .... I'm not Muslim so I have no idea how to interpret anything. But, much like Christianity, I'm getting a lot of contradictions ...

my minaret


According to the narration of Imaam Ahmad, the Messenger of Allaah said, “If an injustice is done to a man and he overlooks it, Allaah will give him glory and victory with it.”



“Those who spend (in Allah Cause) in prosperity and in adversity, who repress anger, and who pardon men; verily, Allah loves the good-doers).” (Aal Imraan 3:133-134)


“Hold to forgiveness, command what is right, and turn away from the ignorant.” (Qur’an, 7: 199)

“The repayment of a bad action is one equivalent to it. But if someone pardons and puts things right, his reward is with Allah…” (Qur’an, 42:40)

“…. But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Qur’an, 64: 14)

"control their rage and pardon other people.” (Qur’an, 3:134)

The quran also allows you to take revenge against people who you think have “wronged” you.

I think that must all be Muslim on Muslim forgiveness because there are a ton of other passages that are different for non-muslims - see here and also this is what the Quran says about non-muslims . So I don't think forgiveness is extended outside the muslim walls. Revenge is okay because non-believers are hated by Allah.

At least, that's what it looks like. I'm not Muslim so I have no idea.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Goathief
what kind of society do you want to live in?

Easy there fella ... you didn't read the thread, did ya'??
I already said that I don't have an opinion one way or the other.

I'm just stating the fact.
Evolutionary psychology states revenge IS A PRIMAL HUMAN RIGHT.


Yes I did, I am asking you the question in a non-aggressive manner to provoke thought - sorry if you got the wrong impression. Perhaps I should have added more words to that effect. Either way my point still stands, what is your take on it?



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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Basic Hindu Beliefs

Well ... there really isn't any 'basic Hindu' info because it's rather complicated. The Vedas and all ...

Anyways, from what I gather, revenge is bad karma that would mean a soul would have to recycle and come back for another incarnation. That's something to be avoided.

However, I see that doing a quick google search will bring up calls by Hindu groups for 'revenge' against others who have wronged them.

So again .... I'm not sure ... but I think Hindu says revenge = bad karma.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:31 PM
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I hope this isn't off topic, but if we look to religion, aren't we just looking at TPTB. Religion (not spirituality) is written and re-written over the ages to provide a basis for a successful and peaceful society. Therefore, the religious documents are going to reflect the same things as our government documents. They are going to reflect whatever makes for an easily controlled group of subjects.

I am not trying to downplay religion, but your original question is "Why is revenge bad." Looking to religion will tell us why it doesn't fit into a society, and that may be exactly why it is bad. But that doesn't get to the fundamental answer you were looking for?!?

I interpreted your question as one of natural law. Where does revenge fit into nature. Now that I think about it, I really can't think of an incidence of revenge in nature. Maybe it really is BAD!



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by Goathief
 

Alright ... your other post came across wonky .... we'll go from here
and I won't seek 'revenge' against ya' for the first post.


What kind of society do I want to live in? Good question.

Does it matter what the individual wants?
Does it matter what society wants?
Does a persons primal right to revenge matter?
Do people have a right to push their religious beliefs of non-revenge on others?

Does taking away a persons right to revenge have a negative impact on society or a positive one? The answer to that question probably will answer your question of 'what kind of society do I want to live in?' At this time, I don't know if I can fully answer that question.

I think that a merciful but just society would seem the optimal.

I don't know if revenge fits in a society like that.

I don't know if society has a right to take away another humans right
to revenge. It seems that it has to be something that a person is willing
to give up on his/her own and not be forced into giving up. Otherwise
the victim is victimized again. And that wouldn't be a just society.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
Where does revenge fit into nature.

Evolutionary psychology tells us that revenge is a basic human behavior ... or right .... or however you want to put it. It's what has gotten us where we are today. Revenge served the purpose of, for a lack of a better term, law enforcement (way back when) as well as a way to cull the human herd of bad apples .. of bad dna. It made the self policing human herd stronger.


Oh .. I put the religious beliefs there because people were bringing up how revenge lowers us, and they were printing the wisdom of the sages through the ages. I figured I'd find out what some of the big religions say so we could have a little info to work with.

I haven't gotten to Buddhist or Jewish yet.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Where does revenge fit into nature.

Evolutionary psychology tells us that revenge is a basic human behavior ... or right .... or however you want to put it. It's what has gotten us where we are today. Revenge served the purpose of, for a lack of a better term, law enforcement (way back when) as well as a way to cull the human herd of bad apples .. of bad dna. It made the self policing human herd stronger.


Oh .. I put the religious beliefs there because people were bringing up how revenge lowers us, and they were printing the wisdom of the sages through the ages. I figured I'd find out what some of the big religions say so we could have a little info to work with.

I haven't gotten to Buddhist or Jewish yet.


That may be true, but why don't we see it in other species? I didn't realize it until typing the other post, but I have never seen a bird go and attack a snake after the nest is already plundered of eggs. I haven't seen rams or buffalo chase a retreating prowler after the kill is made. I haven't seen a landscape create a disproportionate response to a flood. I have never seen any "prey" go and exact revenge on a "predator" after the fact. It would be simple for pack animals like water buffalo or elephants to do serious damage to sleeping lions or tigers, and it would serve the purpose of "law enforcement".

If there are no other instances of revenge in nature, then it must not be a natural occurence. Therefore it must be a "bad" aspect of human nature alone!



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by purehughness
Because, quite simply, two wrongs don't make a right.

In enacting revenge, you're simply lowering yourself to the level of the person who has wronged you, so it doesn't really solve anything!


Sorry - this is the story of the eternal victim.

Revenge is simply self defense that is delayed either by circumstance - or by intention - perhaps to gather strength.

Confronting wrong doing takes personal courage - but you stand your ground, call bull# on injustice then you deal out whatever justice is needed.

You don't do this from a point of view of anger, or rage or whatever people say - but from a point of view that the aggressive, violent or selfish behavior has to be confronted, put in the light of day and forcibly rebuked - PERSONALLY.

Some people never feel shame - even if you shine a light on their deeds in front of all. If they don't accept their punishment - then too bad.

Of course - in some cases killing is appropriate. You just need to get rid of those who use violence in an aggressive and selfish way to take unjustly, or to push down others so they can go ahead.

Violence and force are JUST acts when enacted for JUST reasons.

The law is supposed to punish evil - how can someone be rehabilitated if they are never punished - they will either feel cheated (enduring guilt), or they will feel they empowered. In either case, they can't go forward in a positive way.

Revenge should never be about making you feel better. If you need to feel better - then just start feeling better, because everything you feel comes from inside you - if you blame the outside world for how you feel all the time, then you're just another victim - and the world has an overpopulation of those already.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 06:27 PM
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Is it safe to say that revenge is neither bad or good but to keep human society in order and controlled then revenge can't be practiced



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 06:28 PM
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Revenge is wrong.

But it sure makes me feel a whole lot better.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 06:40 PM
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I guess it all depends on perspective. My personal belief states that to act on revenge is to act without mind. It is an automatic reaction in a cause and effect way. When not fully or partially "conscious" you act in a way that comes natural; When you get hit it's natural to want to hit back due to life's mirroring effect. In order to rise above it, you need to understand that you have a choice. Is it to your benefit to react, rather than think? If someone cusses you out, is it to your benefit to cuss them back? Sure it might feel good temporarily, but what will it solve? Again according to my beliefs, Karma is the natural order. To get caught up in karma is to serve it's purpose, but not yours.

Karma is the river flowing and you can choose to flow along with it down the cliff, and if you survive great and if you don't oh well. Being conscious is the realization that you are flowing down the river and given the choice to continue or make your way towards dry land. The difference is in the choice. When reacting towards revenge without thought you are making your choice without thought which gives your power (free will) away. If someone does something harmful towards you, it is in your best interest to understand that they have started a domino effect that will come back to them, whether you are a willing participant in the effect or not. But know this, that your reaction to their cause, in effect flips the script on you because the effect(how their action affected you) becomes the cause (your revenge) which continues the cycle.

Just my two cents...



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by Blurringlines
 


No, I wouldn't agree.

Revenge is not a mindless act.

Not if you do it right.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 07:50 PM
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Thanks for this posting. Great topic. Here is my take on the question of revenge, if you are willing to assume that the person who wronged you (thus raising the question of revenge) is "a pig" :

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get all dirty, and the pig... likes it.

[edit on 6/1/2009 by Uphill]



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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No wonder you Americans won't fight, because you won't even stand up for yourselves on a personal level.

Ive never heard a bunch of more weak as piss fruits in my life.

"Oh no - revenge is bad."

"Its just makes you like them."

"The police and law should do it, because we are weak as piss and won't do anything even if our balls are twisted off."

You have been turned into a nation of weak as piss panzies - I can't believe what I'm hearing on this thread. Then you say your going to go fight for your country and freedom? With what - maybe some harshly worded letters? All they have to say is "Your breaking the law!" And you will drop your guns and your pants and let them do what they like to you.

What the hell does it take to make you losers mad?

Harden the fk up you soft little baby ass panzies - try turning the other cheek you milksops - because you'll just get it harder on the other side of your face, then a boot up your ass for being stupid.

[edit on 1-6-2009 by Amagnon]



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