the trauma of alcohol and death, a rant

to go further,
I will go see him in the hospital next week.
Today I spoke with my 11 year old daugher, tried to explain to her what was going on and she desided that she wants to see her grandfather and say goodbuy. She literaly said 'mom, I don't care that he is a drunk, he's my grandfather'... dang!
so I will go see him with my kid and make the best of it.

btw, I never say bad thing about him when the kids can hear it. They have eyes and they are old enough to understand what is going on. I also never forbid him to see them, they went on sleep overs often when I know my mom is around to keep a good eye on them.

I figure that at least he has the right to see his grandchildren for a last time and say goodbuy.... and I will be in the same room when they do it.
I still don't know what I am going to say.

reply to post by mhinsey


I understand your points. However, it is not about "supporting". Even being supportive is not enough at times, and just ignoring, or pretending to, is not helping anyone. (and once again, I don't blame anyone here for not doing... it is hard to do for the others too...)

But there is something that is hard to understand to non alcoholics.

An alcoholic person is someone who drinks by need. There are people who are drunk half of the time, and half of the remaining time totally wasted. It is, for instance, more or less frequent in a certain slice of the students population. It does not make them alcoholics. They drink by "pleasure" (oh right, where is the pleasure at that point?...)

An alcoholic drinks because he needs to. It is needed, the body, the mind, the conscious and unconscious wants that alcohol. It is necessary. An alcoholic is only feeling right after having a minimum dose. An alcoholic who has not been drinking since many hours, i.e. after a night's sleep, is in need; pretty much like a drug addict is in need. It is the same thing.

In that, I am not trying to excuse anyone for the bad they did, whatever bad, but I am simply stating that having a problem of alcoholism is a tremendous thing to go over. What they do, or in many cases rather what they do not do, is not even a question of knowing about it. It is a real illness. An illness of the mind first, and after a while it becomes an illness of the body.

An alcoholic knows perfectly the bad they've done, or the good they didn't. They do know of their failures, and they do know of what do to: stop drinking. At least after a certain "degree" of alcoholism (if I can say so), many get to that point where they actually realize. And it only adds to their own pain: they can't stop... Alcohol has become a need, an excuse, a reason. It IS their life. Without it, they are feeling horrible; they do need that alcohol. Some people are bad alcoholics even they just drink a few glasses a day, but it's all about the absolute necessity to have them.

I fully understand how painful it is to have to live with such a person. What most people do not understand however, is how painful it is to be that person. It is a weight, a horrible weight, and it becomes more and more impossible to get free of it, day after day. And the more time goes, the more it becomes a permanent illness. An alcoholic doesn't heal: he circumvents his illness by being strong enough not to drink; that's the absolute only way. There are a few exceptions, very few, but they remain exceptions.

We all have gone to parties and drank way too much. We all have felt bad the next day, because of a headache, because of some unwanted even (being bad mouthed is frequent, violent sometimes), we do all know what it is to drink too much. An alcoholic doesn't drink too much: they drink what they need. When we woke up those mornings, we surely never thought "dang I need a beer/wine/whisky/...". We were bad, and feeling bad about it. The alcoholic wakes up, and goes as soon as reasonably possible to drink his dose: that's only then that he feels "healed"...

Trust me, it is a sad situation. It may be sad for the others around, but it is a terrible life to live... I don't excuse that, I explain it. Those who don't suffer it can hardly understand.

reply to post by SpookyVince


You are not stating anything I didn't already know about the first morning drink... handing your father a drink before you let him drive you somewhere due to the shakes... watching generations of family drinking theirselves to death.

I GET it. I just gave up because after you watch the 4-5 person in your immediate family die from alcoholism... you MUST detach to survive. I come from a family so full of alcoholics that I cannot remember a completely sober event. Not me drinking but SOMEONE was. Not one wedding, funeral, hospital stay. NOT one event.

My God! My own brother had an anuerysm AND survived. It caused the aneurysm but it also saved him. Thinned the blood. He is the only person I know who was prescribed a beer in ICU to keep DT's off.

I soooooooooo get it. But do you? There have been so many times I wished they would not wake up. Maybe if the alcoholics died early enough their children (my cousins, nieces, nephews) might have a chance of their Mom or Dad meeting a non-alcoholic and possibly learning a different life. My father died in his sleep TWICE from alcoholism. My brother - same one - had to revive him the first time.

There is just a point you reach when you wish they would hurry up and die. It is tiring to the point of murder if you don't remove yourself from their environment.

Wow. I had a completely similar childhood myself. Its nice to meet someone who went through something similar.

My mom is a heroin addict and she started when I was two years old. My dad pretty much just "took it" like you said. CONSTANT argueing. I always had my headphones on so I didnt have to hear it.

And when I turned 12 both my parents left us at my grandmas never to return. My dad just pretty joined my mom in the drugs. Theyre both still doing it. Its hard.

The most hard part, is when everyday the phone rings, and you dont know if today is going to be the day you get that phonecall that one of them is dead.

So for what you said...whether you should forgive or not, I really dont know. I know its a tough thing to decide. I forgave mine for what they've done but ill never forget it.

I still get really mad and wonder what it would be like to have that happy little family, but we gotta realize we have to make a happy family for ourselves.

Im sorry you had to go through that because it really does effect your adulthood.

I dont know if its like this with you, but whenever someone yells in my house, it really really scares me, because of all the yelling in my childhood.

Were all stronger than we know and I know you can make it through this. We'll probably never fully heal but everyday if we face our fears and trauma, we can move forward a little bit, every day.

If you ever need someone to talk to, you can definetly U2U me.

reply to post by Jess_Undefined


sorry for the late reply Jess,
I'm sorry to hear what you had to go through...

I have the same thing with people around me who drink, once I can smell the alcohol I tend to 'leave the party'. I can't stand drunk people.
As for the yelling, I really don't like it when two adults start fighting.
But I think I picked up some taught behaviour from my parents, I used to be the one that started yelling because I felt that I had to do that to defend myself. I yelled, threw things on the floor, etc...
Lucky me I realized that I was going the wrong way, when my baby was born I thought to myself 'I have to stop this or I'll hurt the baby one day'... never did it again, with the help from my husband I know how to stay calm now.

I called my dad yesterday and to my suprise he was sober. We had a long conversation, I could sense the fear in his voice and I really felt sorry for him. They did a biopsy of the tumor and next week we'll have the results back, the oncologist is considering radiation therapy IF it's possible.
we'll see next week.

I suddenly realized that I never posted the ending of this story... and since I feel like writing today...


So in June they did a biopsy of his tumor, it was cancer and it was located behind the cheeckbone and the nose and already attached to his right eye.
Since then they did lots and lots of tests and scans in two different university hospitals, he made an interesting case so it seemed.

Beginning of July a team of oncologists decided that they wanted to try and operate on the tumor. If they didn't he would die, if they did there was also a chance he wouldn't survive.
He got the operation, two teams of surgeans worked on him for 13 hours !

He did loose his right eye and cheek, basically, after the operation he looked mutulated.
Next week he'll start radiation and chemo. He still needs plastic surgery after that.

Amazing, after everything, he still survives. Ofcourse he thinks he's invincible now.

All the time he spend in the hospital he couldn't drink, they kept him on Valium all the time.
He's home now, but not sober... sadly enough he started drinking the moment he got home.
I talked to him about that, told him how sad i thought it was that he couldn't stay sober, how I expeced things to be different this time. He got angry... I left.
After that I went to see his oncologist about the drinking. He said that they didn't operate on him because of his drinking problem but because of the cancer, he said "he's a grown man and it's his desicion, we can't do anything about that". I asked him what the operation was worth now that he's a drunk again, why all the effort? He said " we can't take that in concideration, he has cancer, we try to cure him. If he started drinking again then that's just to sad but it's his desicion"

So that was that.
Looking back now, I don't see where all the sadness was for. It did make me think and rethink, him and the past.

He lives, he beat the cancer....but he didn't beat the booze... how sad is that?

i am so sorry to hear your pain...
i also grew up with alcoholic parents. and had all the crap that went with that too. i thought my dad would die from alcohol .. to my shock he was murdered. i couldnt believe it.. i thought he was doing a great job of killing himself .. he didnt need anyone else to do it for him. it was when i was 24.. 7 years ago. i always hated them for their drinking.. i was angry that i couldnt blame him for his death. he was killed by an alcoholic drunk neighbour in a robbery attempt. he was drunk at the attack and couldnt defend himself.
my mum just drank more.. which i didnt think was possible! my family fell out and i started drinking too everyday. I never imagined that i would turn out that way.. i tried to kill myself. i ended up being carried out of my flat due to almost dying of alcohol abuse. i lost my job and partner. it was hell.
my doc told me i had to stop drinking or i would die.
i was so depressed and alone. i begged the universe to help me and asked if there was a God .. please help me now..

that was four years ago... i have been sober since!!!
i got involved in the recovery movement and now i help other alcoholics!

i am so much better.. but my poor mother is still drunk most days.. i keep praying that she gets better as that is all i can do.

i will send you healing thoughts and will say a prayer for you all.

my advice would be look at the bigger picture.. your dad cant change the past.. say all you can and want to say to your dad while he is still here...

i wish i could have been able to say goobye to my dad.
i do believe i will see him again though.. so i hold on to that thought!!

lots of love and light
ps

oh and please look after YOURSELF in this difficult time gypsK

love and light
ps

The only thing I can say is that I am sorry. My father was much the same way but he dramatically changed and has done his damndest to repair what he has damaged. I love him like a person should love a father now.

The only advice I can offer is to not expect an apology. Try to figure out in your own head, why he was such an alcoholic your entire life. No words can repair a lifetime of pain. But, if you believe in such things as heaven and a higher power. Put all your faith into it and know that he will realize what was wrong.


[edit on 25-8-2009 by Mr. Toodles]