The Chemtrail Phenomenon, page 4
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 20 times


reply posted on 31-5-2009 @ 02:34 PM by neformore
reply to post by Mindmelding


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



I see....

So what you are saying is that, by eye, you can judge degrees of arc and the size of an aircraft across its wingspan, given that 30,000ft is 5.68miles upwards, and the wingspan of a 767 is between 167 and 180ft.

In other words, you are trying to judge an aspect ratio of 180/30000, which is 0.006 in real terms, when the air 1-1500ft lower or higher could be saturated to the point where a contrail will form.

Or let me put it another way at 4.93 miles the aspect ratio is , 180/25000 is 0.007. which is a barely perceptable visible change, and yet its 5,000ft lower.

Now unless you are an eagle, theres no way you can discern that difference visually.

If its MUCH lower, then maybe. but even then you could only say "its lower" and have no idea of the atmospheric conditions at the time you see it.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




reply posted on 31-5-2009 @ 02:37 PM by wonderworld
reply to post by KAKUSA


I think there on some here from the 70's but some are called contrails. You can be the judge. What do you think?

contrailscience.com...


reply posted on 31-5-2009 @ 02:43 PM by wonderworld
reply to post by neformore


I already explained that I can not judge their altitude. I do know that any connection with the process by which moisture in 1000 degree Fahrenheit jet exhaust will freeze into visible ice crystals. I do not know any others methods of judging your numbers.




These are clearly under the clouds.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by wonderworld]


reply posted on 31-5-2009 @ 02:49 PM by wonderworld
reply to post by blc4r4


Thanks, Ebola and West Nile both came out of biological labs those at the top are controlled by Big Brother interests.



reply posted on 31-5-2009 @ 02:58 PM by wonderworld
reply to post by kiwifoot


There is none of this stuff in Africa, Thailand, Indonesia or Arab Countries.

Do you think they are trying to tell us something?


reply posted on 31-5-2009 @ 03:00 PM by Mindmelding
reply to post by neformore


By much lower I'm talking about 15 000ft, and yes, I can tell the difference. I just have half decent eyesight, many people see better, a few see worse. I think what happens is not the ability to see that is in question but rather how the brain interprets the information. Someone who can't tell a twinjet from a stratofortress won't have a cogent interpretation of the same scenario, regardless how good his eyesight is.

But again, all this is moot, chemtrails are evident because of their effects and the abnormal nature of the air traffic, and confirmation should be seeked from ATC rather than random witnesses, which are more of an indication of a situation than the high degree of confirmation most skeptics require.

I suspect as this becomes more frequent more pressure will be put on the right place and, sooner or later, we will know who is flying these birds, where from and under who's authority.

And then the fun begins.


reply posted on 31-5-2009 @ 03:01 PM by wonderworld
reply to post by blc4r4


Yes, this too. I hope they arent the same. The most important was removed on this site!


Poisoning article from rense www.rense.com...


reply posted on 31-5-2009 @ 03:03 PM by wonderworld
reply to post by neformore


I dont mean to argue with you some believe in Chemtrails and some thinks it an illusion.

Do you disbelieve? or dont think my images are accurate enough? I have more.



reply posted on 31-5-2009 @ 03:14 PM by exile1981
Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by neformore


I already explained that I can not judge their altitude. I do know that any connection with the process by which moisture in 1000 degree Fahrenheit jet exhaust will freeze into visible ice crystals. I do not know any others methods of judging your numbers.

These are clearly under the clouds.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by wonderworld]



Usually contrails form either off of wingtips or other control surfaces as they cause a JT (Jules Thompson) effect which is a temperature drop caused by a decrease in pressure or an increase in volume. They can form behind an engine.

Not sure if it's relavent but the reason we are seeing more of these could be because of the shift from jet engines to TurboFan engines. A jet engine has a high velocity/ high temperature exhaust that moves the aircraft forward by pushing the high velocity exhaust backward (Newton said equal and opposite reaction). In a Turbofan engine there is a second larger "fan" ahead of the engine that accelerates a very large volume of air through a shaped chamber to cause it to compress and accelerate. A smaller amount of the air goes through the "jet" portion is mixed with fuel and then is ignited to accelerate rearward, this air then moves across a series of turbines blades that steal power from the jet exhaust. These turbines turn the "fan" at the front end of the unit. At the end the engine the slow hot gas comes out in the middle and is surrounded by a torrus of very high velocity warm gas (it picks up some heat going through the fan from the engine but not 1000's of degrees worth).

The fact that most modern commercial 'jets' actually have turbofans would mean that the amount of heat would be significantly less than a traditional jet.

As a side note I remember a discussion in the 90's about fuel injection in turbo fans and modern jet engines. Since modern units have a higher temperature in the combustion chamber there was a problem with carbonization of fuel over the very tiny fuel nozzles (this plugs them and stops fuel flow). There was discussion about using larger nozzles to prevent the carbonization problem but the down side was fuel usage would go up and the amount of unburnt fuel in the exhaust would go up also. I have no idea what was done about this though, I stopped following the discussion in 96.


reply posted on 31-5-2009 @ 03:21 PM by wonderworld
reply to post by exile1981


Thank you for all that info. Very informative. I still have concerns for health related problems in towns that claim they have lots of chemtrails.

The famous X symbol and the Grid patterns must mean there is more to it. There was a time when I assumed they were all fuel dumps high in the atmosphere, after doing a bit more research I dont find that to be the case.

There is some electromagnetic going on, as well.


reply posted on 31-5-2009 @ 03:26 PM by dragonridr
reply to post by wonderworld


Wow your serious aren't you i really thought you were joking until i read more of your posts. Lets start here contrails are a natural phenomenon have been around as long as planes have been flying.They are more prevalent now however do to increased air traffic. Grid patterns of course will occur you dont think planes follow flight paths? And how in the world do people think you put ice crystals in the atmosphere there not going to group together to form clouds is just beyond me. Do you honestly think that clouds just poof into existence no they don't the ice crystals condense to form a cloud. Has our education system become so bad that people dont even understand basic science my god we are in trouble.

PS in total seriousness people please look into a topic and dont get all your information off conspiracy sites its fun to speculate on possibilities but you just cant throw all the fact out the window.

[edit on 5/31/09 by dragonridr]


reply posted on 31-5-2009 @ 03:34 PM by exile1981
reply to post by wonderworld


I'm still on the fence on the issue and I haven't done a lot of reading on the issue but I'm I still find the discussion interesting.
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