The Chemtrail Phenomenon

The chemicals are all co-inky-dink. Ya. thats it. Thats the ticket.
Amazes me how no matter how much evidence we present,
the duhbunkers always say something is wrong with it.
Even from the horses mouth!

Ya, they lie, but not about this!
Nah, nothin' to see, move along....
Also amazes how predictable this is, and in every "good" thread.
I swear they hang around all day every day waiting to pounce
on someone who gets close to the truth, like this is a job or something...

Good employees we have here apparently.
Why else would you defend the ones with the weapons and poisons,
and argue with the very ones being sprayed, poisoned and here just
wanting to know why?
I would post some stuffola here, but it will just be pooped on anyway.

Even if there is no chemtrail spraying going on, at the very least there
are particulates from the jet exhaust AND the 'contrails' produce lasting clouds that block sunlight. Not normal as in nature caused. Oh well.

Field sites exposed to higher volumes
of air traffic contained higher levels of sediment heavy metals,
supporting the hypothesis that aerial deposition of heavy metals is
occurring in areas near some airports.

www.areco.org...
Nice job, WW! Have at 'er bebunkies.

Government Cover-ups: Chemtrails

www.worldaffairsbrief.com...
educate-yourself.org...

[edit on 7-8-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by dodadoom


Hey dodadoom, Ive been offline since Sunday.

Yes, Isnt it odd, when presented with scientific data they change the subject. I have more coming soon. Everyone claims there is no proof.

Chemtrails are really not a theory.

We have weather guys, pilots; however none so far that can go up againt my science back ground and I have a lot of it.

I'm hoping someone will get on here who can have a rational scientific debate about chemical disperse, not weather or plane parts. As we've seen Military is classified.

reply to post by wonderworld


You really do have some wonderful evidence in this thread. I think you should 'clean' it up, condense it into another IRON CLAD thread from the get go.

I was thinking about trying to make an iron clad chemtrail thread, but you've already come fairly close over 35+ pages.

reply to post by dodadoom

I'm not defending anyone. I'm pointing out that persistent contrails are, and have been, a natural consequence of aircraft exhaust at high altitudes. I'm pointing out that there is no evidence that they are part of a plot to modify climate or poison the populace. I'm pointing out that there is no evidence that persistent contrails contain anything other than ice crystals (and exhaust products). I'm pointing out that cirrus clouds which arrive before weather front are natural and are made of the same stuff that contrails are made of (less the exhaust).

The possible effects of contrails on climate have been studied for a long time, since the sixties at least. Could they have an effect? Maybe. Do they have an effect? No one really knows, just as no one really knows what is causing the apparent warming trend we are seeing. Jet exhaust, like any exhaust, is a pollutant. So is car exhaust ( Carbon Monoxide, Nitrogen dioxide, Sulfur dioxide, Suspended particles, Benzene, Formaldehyde, Polycyclic hydrocarbons, etc.). Factories are wonderful producers of heavy metals, in spite of attempts to clean them up.

Are you suggesting that jet travel be banned in order to prevent the pollution from the exhaust and the potential of adverse climate change? Better ban cars and factories too then because they produce more than the planes do. But even if jet exhaust were pollution free, contrails would still form. When hot water vapor meets cold, moist air contrails form.


[edit on 8/7/2009 by Phage]

[edit on 8/7/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


I had considered starting over and creating a newer thread but I expect the same debunkers, as always.

I'm working on more scientific air sample explanations that they can understand in laymans terms.

They even argue who first found the Neutrino particle!! Telsa did.

reply to post by wonderworld


Sure the same debunker's, sure they'll be there. No doubt, and yes call me paranoid, but really why do they keep coming in the same threads?

That OZ weatherman was in a HAARP thread by neo-V; he debunked the thread of course, and then said the idea of feeling a continual earthquake(as mentioned in the op) was crap....rubbish.....childish, and not possible.

Hey, I was in Honduras during the 7 point Earthquake recently, and you could feeling some thing the day before, and for sure several days afterward many people felt a continuous shake.

All I'm pointing out is that much of their debunking is unsound, and then when disprove that they wanna move, and debunk something else.

Absolutely new thread condensed!!!

Originally posted by wonderworld

We have weather guys, pilots; however none so far that can go up againt my science back ground and I have a lot of it.

You haven't really presented any science. You've presented nonsense about neutrinos being used for weather control. You've presented speculation about HAARP being used in conjunction with "chemtrails". You've presented patents for things completely unrelated to "chemtrails". You've thrown crop dusting and cloud seeding into the mix.

You have not explained how persistent contrails cannot form. You have not demonstrated any science background.

reply to post by Phage

Thanks for the reply I expected. I never said you we're.
I may have implied SOME people are debunkers here.
I guess if the shoe fits.....
No prob, if you need evidence that will satisfy you, good luck.
I am sure banning cars and planes and factory's would fly.
I am saying you cant say there are no chemicals in contrails
because there clearly are. Chemicals are bad for us, no?

I cant say for sure if it is 'deliberately' happening or not. Neither can you.
I am saying their track record isnt so good.
I'm not going to post more info on how we've been irradiated, poisoned,
interned and otherwise used as guneia pigs for years. Its out there.

I am sure we will justify it all somehow as needing it for the
'betterment' of the country or something.
We're just not smart enough to find a better way and CONSERVE
what we have left in the meantime or even imagine trying to change
from a greed-based society run off fear, to a more compassionate one. Hence the name. I hold out no hope.

We are on a long slow decline and no one even recognizes it.
We are too busy maintaining the unsustainable status quo.
We are too stuck in our arrogancy to ever progress past our barbaric,
greedy human nature and technological ability to destroy ourselves.
This explains why the chemtrails dont really matter in the end.
We will find a way to rain on our parade, one way or another.

Why should I trust anyone here? Even you?




[edit on 7-8-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


Yes OZ weatherman is very smart. He is also a friend so I dont exactly want to argue with him. I'm also not a pro on weather functions.

I know weedwacker likes to defend Chaff however; Aerial spraying, including CHAFF violates National and International laws; although people have a difficult time suing because the courts refuse to believe their respiratory illnesses are related to chemtrails and is hard to prove.

It also violates Environmental laws and has negative effects on wildlife.

It's still illegal and most people dont know that. Obama is considering it. I added that a few pages back and see if I can locate it again.

reply to post by dodadoom

It's not about trust. I don't trust the government. I don't trust large corporations. The government isn't telling me they aren't "spraying". Corporations aren't telling me they aren't "spraying".

It's about understanding. I understand a certain amount about the way the atmosphere behaves. I understand how contrails form. I understand why they form at some altitudes and not others. I understand why they are more common in some places than others. I understand why they sometimes last longer than at other times. I understand how they can cause the formation of cirrus clouds. I know, from personal experience, that contrails have existed for a long time. Long before HAARP, long before anyone was ever talking about "chemtrails".

With this understanding I don't have to trust anyone but myself nor do I have to speculate about a huge plot to control the climate or depopulate the planet. There are more efficient ways to depopulate and understanding of the climate is so limited that the idea we can control it is frankly, absurd.

[edit on 8/7/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


Here it is.

OBAMA CONSIDERS CHEMTRAILS

President Obama is full of surprises. But even expectant reporters were taken aback when White House science adviser John Holdren used his first interview on April 18, 2009 to announce, “Global warming is so dire, the Obama administration is discussing radical technologies to cool Earth's air.”

With the first feedback effects from methane releases starting to kick in and our space colony's atmospheric CO2 levels surging toward the “Do Not Exceed” redline of 440 parts per million, Holdren declared that the Obama administration is considering “last resort” technologies to chill the global greenhouse village - aka the 'hood

.


Is the Obama administration about to “out” chemtrails?

Referring to “radical” technologies that include spreading a sunlight-reflecting artificial cloud cover, Holdren declared, “It's got to be looked at. We don't have the luxury of taking any approach off the table.”

willthomasonline.net...

reply to post by Phage


Well Phage, you havent been following to closely. I had mentioned earlier to Defcon that I do think there is an occasional time or so when there are persistant contrails.

I havent looked up the scientific data on why this rare event occurs but will. Many chemtrailers may disagree but that is what Ive learned so far. It may be related to electromagnetic effects using neutrinos. I mentioned this a while back.


All the scientific data I provided is back a few pages. I'm not going backwards but feel free to check.

reply to post by dodadoom


Good point of greedy human nature. It makes me aware of how fast the stock market is rising. It is going up TO fast. There will be severe consequences shortly.

reply to post by Phage

I understand how contrails form. I understand why they form at some altitudes and not others. I understand why they are more common in some places than others. I understand why they sometimes last longer than at other times. I understand how they can cause the formation of cirrus clouds.

Low altitude sparying is about 3000 feet usually for insect control

Mid altitude spraying alters the atmosphere between 5,000 and 24,000

High altitude spraying is altering the atmosphere from 24,000 and higher by jets spraying aerosols or using neutrino’s to change the electromagnetic field of the whole globe, which goes through the stratosphere and into the ionosphere.

Also approved by the UN but goes against the Geneva convention. Check it out.




[edit on 7-8-2009 by wonderworld]

reply to post by wonderworld

Neutrinos again. Since neutrinos have no charge (thus the name) can you, with your background in science, explain exactly how they can affect an electromagnetic field, much less the magnetic field of the Earth? The method used to produce the neutrinos would be of interest as well. Since there are enormous number of neutrinos penetrating the atmosphere all the time, what makes the ones "sprayed" so special that they can cause unnatural changes?

Have you provided a source for the UN's approval of such activities? If so, I apologize for not seeing it. I hope you're not referring to crop dusting (including insect control) or cloud seeding. The results of these activities bear no resemblance to "chemtrails".

[edit on 8/7/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage


Because neutrinos do not have protons, neutrons and are not electrically charges it's easy to capture them and manipulate them depending on what outcome they are after. More on that in a minute.

We do know that when they play God to cool the stratosphere combined with heating the ionosphere, this can create cataclysmic results. It's not natural to go blasting holes through our atmosphere. Many dont understand that a country alone would not get away with such actions. This is on a global scale. Kind of like bombing the moon. All Nations must be in agreement.

The UN's envirnomental group is called WMO/ UNEP they sometimes refer to this as Aeronomy and research focuses on the following three atmospheric issues like Air Chemistry,Stratospheric Ozone Layer Recovery, Radiation, Clouds and climate change testing to name a few.

I didnt read this site thourouly but here is one link. It is NO secret about UNEP and their agenda. It's an easy google search.

www.grida.no...

These ones arent to informative but shows a glimpse of what The UN can do.




This video below can be Interoperated 2 ways. Dont let it fool you. It's obvious, as to how much power they have to change the Environment.

reply to post by Phage

The government isn't telling me they aren't "spraying".

You expect them too?
Indeed, by the info posted earlier, it seems they are telling us that they are!
Whether they tell us about it or not is really beside the point.
We have already agreed they lie. And are spraying something.
Whether its chemical or what, it doesnt really matter.
What matters is they CAN.
They told us they are giving the banks billions that they frankly dont deserve. IMO Does that matter they told us?
Does it matter if they ever tell us or even what they would tell us?
What they tell us and what they actually do is debatable in itself.

There are more efficient ways to depopulate and understanding of the climate is so limited that the idea we can control it is frankly, absurd.

Very True. No more absurd than propping up un unsustainable system
and calling greed normal.
No more absurd than beleiving the lies stop when talking chemtrails.
A liar is a liar is a liar.
Absurd is rewarding the very ones who stole the country's wealth in the first place and calling it needed because they are too big to fail.

Truly absurd, arrogantly stupid and nothing new in;
the land of the greed, home of the 'fraid.

[edit on 7-8-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by dodadoom


oops I was searching for mp3 players instead of solar flares and neutrinos.

Be back soon.

A bit about neutrinos, HAARP and Lidars;

The Lidars do not only do monitoring, they have several purposes. At the far end of the spectrum they moniter aerial heavy particle spray movement and temperature changes in the runs, aid in Doppler, etc.. You may need to do some reading on that. Combined with HAARP it still reminds me of Reagans Star Wars program. I think it's the silent version, with nasty consequences and highy advanced from it's previous state..

Leosphere has recently announced the deployment of its 50th Lidar station. Cloud, aerosol Lidars and Wind Lidars are now installed in 14 countries contributing to regional and global monitoring of meteorological and climate change processes. Still considered an emerging technology just a few years ago, the wind Lidar and the aerosol Lidar are now widely used as routine observation instruments feeding meteorological databases and models. While cloud and aerosol Lidar networks keep sprouting in various regions of the world, high resolution wind Lidar profiler was still missing in meteo stations. Our new WLS 70 might well light up the sky to answer that need...

www.leosphere.com...

As part of the Earth Observation Programmes, the European Space Agency has been involved in the definition, studies and developments for various types of lidar sensors. At first, a Doppler Wind Lidar, for 3-D tropospheric wind profiling, is due to fly on board the forthcoming Atmospheric Dynamic Mission (ADM), also called Aeolus; next, a Backascattering Lidar, ATLID, for Cloud and Aerosols observations, is proposed to be flown as a joint European-Japanese mission. Last, the Differential absorption lidar (DIAL) is being considered for high resolution/accuracy water vapour atmospheric profiling. The paper will give an overview of related technology developments and applications.

See we have it going on at both ends. Satellites working in the outer atmosphere and chemtrailing in the low, mid and high altitudes with a common goal. Messing around with the Earth's magnetic field could cause it to simply disappear in a couple centuries, killing all life forms!!!!!

We all know cosmic rays affect the weather. This is also considered a solar neutrino flux, solar flux, solar flare etc.. Oxygen is the most abundant heavy element in the solar flux , with some iron added maybe 20%.

Cosmic rays include all of the elements; however there is huge difference of isotopic composition. Electrons dont have a big part in cosmic rays. An electron has a negative electric charge. Can you see how it isnt necessary. Neutrinos are not charged at all they have no protons, neutrons or electrons.

We have electromagnetic fields such as; interstellar, galactic, solar and Earths magnetic field. This is why cosmic rays bounce off us. The odd thing about all of this is called the magnetic cloud made my solar fluxes. They have a plasma material. HAARP produces a Neutrino induced Muon that has the ability to manipulate manetic clouds.. HAARP denies it but they can alter earth's magnetic field and break through to manipulate the ionosphere. This is very dangerous. Here is one site not belonging to HAARP. lepmfi.gsfc.nasa.gov...


I dont claim to know everything about solar birth conditions of magnetic clouds but I do know they can be altered with dire consequences. NASA, the Pentagon,( which controls HAARP) and the UN have no right to mess around with Nature. It's just one big experiment.




[edit on 7-8-2009 by wonderworld]