The Chemtrail Phenomenon

reply to post by weedwhacker


I'm going to put up some Schematics but dont get exited yet. It is not the cool one I was looking for; although these older ones are pretty cool.

I have some newer ones in a book. I need to locate it it.

How to make a Spray Turbine and other mechanisms for use in Chemtrails through atmospheric ionization. Also manipulate cloud formations using Vortex, Electromagnetic, Chemicals, Orgone and Scalar Methods, Air Wells and more. Schematics included.

Please focus on the topic

We (staff) understand this is a very controversial topic but we ask you to please stick to debating the topic and not resorting to questioning each other's intelligence on the subject.

Present your case, debate your points, but don't make it personal...

Thank you.

These are smaller units they come in very large sizes, as well. I think these are called D6-46 spraying units. When leaving the nozzle, chemicals may have a velocity of 60 feet per second or greater unless they are electrostatically charged.

Chemicals from nozzles happen in different ways. There are fan nozzles, Flood nozzles, Whirl chamber nozzles and Rotary nozzles. They each function in a different way.

I don’t have images of most types yet but will soon. These are used on some Agricultural Herbicide Aircraft and can be mounted on any plane large or small, especially the C-130, among others.

I'll try to provide images of larger mounted units that produce the beautiful chemtrail grid patterns and cloud alterations we see in our skies,; although these would work easily as well!

reply to post by Udontknowme


Thanks I'm working on getting the truth. Yes my humble mistake was caught by them.

We do need valid information to base our conclusions. Valid info is hard to find, without getting scientific about the ion's.

reply to post by wonderworld


Well, once again, ww, the issue of spraying pesticides (usually at relatively low altitudes) and cloud seeding endeavours (in the troposphere altitudes) isn't in dispute. NOR are the efforts of those programs 'secret' or clandestine.

The issue at hand is the argument over whether there is some sort of concerted effort to conduct wide-spread "spraying" at altitudes well above the trop, like where passenger jets cruise. BECAUSE, this is the claim of so many people, who see normal contrails and mistake them for, and seem to delight in believing that, they are some sort of terrible chemical 'spray', despite the fact that anything that high will blow well past where they are when they see it anyway (and sorry for the run-on sentence!!)

Why, just the other day, someone was posting on another topic, and apologized for writing something silly, because it was, in his words, "a spray day" and he had a sore throat!!!

I think that's just a bit of hypochondria speaking, personally.

edit 'cuz spellcheck has the night off....



[edit on 29 July 2009 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Udontknowme

 

Why don't you help all of us here, do us a favor and find actual proof of these "chemtrails".

Check this website, it's associated with the G1:www.pnl.gov...

NOW, after reviewing that, please focus in and show us where it says they do any sort of "chemtrail" work.

It would be helpful.

Thanks.

[edit on 29 July 2009 by weedwhacker]

The G1 shuttles Nancy Pelosi around.

Nancy Pelosi knows about the secret Chemtrail program, the one Panetta recently freaked out about, but the media buried.



[edit on 29-7-2009 by Udontknowme]

reply to post by Udontknowme


Congratulations!

With that contribution, you now qualify for a complimentary one-month subscription to the Joke of the Month Club. (all rights reserved)

Thank you for your submission. All of us in the offices got a nice chuckle out of it!

Now, can you please continue with your presentation on the "chemtrail conspiracy"?

reply to post by weedwhacker

Working for an Airline it would be highly unlikely that you would know about chemtrails. It appears most is being conducted on the Navy flight ships and Air Force. The Pentagon owns HAARP, therefore the UN is also involved.

The chemtrail spraying must be between the troposphere and between the pressure levels depending on the temperature, dew point and humidity.

The Neutrino method I’ve been preaching about goes directly in to the Ionosphere, the planes do not. They can blast this stuff anywhere they wish.

I’m guessing the chemtrail grids would be at between 14,000 feet and 18,000. Feet maybe higher. . Aircraft flying above 18,000 feet are required to be on an instrument flight plan.

We don’t want to go where ice crystals form that isn’t a chemtrail. They would be significantly lower to avoid turbulent conditions. It also depends on if it’s a Boeing commercial jetliners or a Military Jet..

We have seen lately a few restricted airspace maps most for Hazards and the July 2009 restriction has been extended until August in Georgia and elsewhere.

Maybe they are spraying mosquitoes again. Whatever they are spraying the public has a right to know. It has catastrophic health and environmental effects.

Do you think it’s O.K to spray pesticides over your neighborhood without your knowledge. You wouldn’t know if it was the swine flu, biochemical compounds, or rat posion. Didnt you read the History of Bio-warfare and other deadly spraying the military has performed.

They were spraying arsenic in the 50's before they realized it had health hazards. That info is back a page or so.

reply to post by Udontknowme

Nancy Pelosi knows about the secret Chemtrail program, the one Panetta recently freaked out about, but the media buried.

Is that true? What is the name of the program. I dont think it's "The Chemtrail Program"

What was the context of the discussion?

Are you talking about Pelosi’s speech on the environment in China?

[edit on 29-7-2009 by wonderworld]

Ok, these threads always go the same way...
First, the Op posts pictures of what they consider Chemtrails, which we call Contrails. Then we go through all the evidence about how they form, why they make patterns, and why they persist. Next come the photos of unusual looking stuff hanging off aircraft (TACMO Planes, Refueling pods, JATO Rockets, PNL aircraft, etc), which all are explained away. A poster, who puts up “documented” information about chaff, cloud seeding, and/or bug spraying, normally follows this. Then a slight diversion into the topic of jet fuel, engines, and fuel additives. Some name-calling, some spamming of endless lists of quotes from various sources, a few patents for things that do not even remotely exist yet, etc…

I think we are heading into a second itineration of the above in this thread.

So in an attempt to make one of these threads actually get somewhere for a change, I am going to play devils advocate and ask the OP some questions about Chemtrails so we can get a set of clear definitions of what they consider chemtrails to be.

General Chemtrail stuff:
1) What exactly do you consider Chemtrails, anything put in the air, or stuff that looks like your photos in the first post?
2) What do you think is in chemtrails?
3) Do you believe that there are fibers in chemtrails?
4) Do you think that supposed “Angel Hair” is from Chemtrails?
5) Do you believe that there are Nano-bots or whatever in them?
6) Do you think that there is a link between these and Morgellions?
7) Do you think that all photos of "supposed" chemtrails are in fact chemtrails?
8) If not how do you differentiate?
9) Do you believe in Persistent Contrails?
10) Are private or commercial pilots in danger from flying through them?
11) Would it pose an aerial hazard to other aircraft?

Logistics stuff:
1) How widespread do you think that chemtrails are?
2) How much Chemtrail coverage do you estimate around the world in a day?
3) How many aircraft do you think are involved in this?
4) How much material would each aircraft have to carry?
5) What types of Aircraft are involved?
6) Where do they fly from?
7) Do you think ATC is involved?
8) Do you think Commercial Airline personnel are involved?
9) Do you think that Private Pilots are involved?
10) Where is this stuff manufactured?
11) How is it shipped to its distribution point?
12) Where is it stored until loaded on the aircraft?
13) Is it a liquid, powder, or what?
14) Would ground crews be in danger from handling this substance?
15) How is it loaded on the aircraft?
16) What apparatus is used to disperse it?
17) Estimate the number of people who would have to be involved with this substance to manufacture, ship, distribute, store, load, and disperse it?


If you don’t know an answer, just guess, estimate, or simply state you have no idea. I think your answering this would be helpful in us narrowing down the topic to specifically what your theory is on it, and keep the left field stuff out in left field.

Thx…


Beware Aerial Pet Control…
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f0d4da8f424e.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by defcon5


I'll get to those 1001 questions soon. You really expect an scientic answer to all of the. I'll give my opinion and try to back it with some data. That will take a long time.

Nice Pet control; although it's cute pets are also affected by spraying.

I get the feeling you are nervous about my recent spraying mechanism images and Historical data. I think I'm building a good case here.

[edit on 30-7-2009 by wonderworld]

Hacking Earth Against Warming, Scientists Favor Fake Volcanoes

This article came out yesterday.

Faced with the potentially devastating consequences of climate change -- including sea level rise and an ice-free Arctic -- some scientists and policy experts have begun to consider an equally drastic countermeasure: geoengineering.

By physically altering the planet on a global scale, geoengineering projects would theoretically offset warming caused by the buildup of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. The concept was dismissed as fringe science when it was first introduced in the 1960s. Now, what once seemed like science fiction is not only being deemed feasible, but necessary

A temporary cooling period created by the launch of 20 million tons of sulfur dioxide into the stratosphere.

Exactly how the material would be delivered isn't clear -- cannons, balloons and high-flying military planes are some "highly speculative" options, he says.

Read more: www.sfgate.com.../g/a/2009/07/29/hearstmaggreen353830.DTL#ixzz0Ml9EnlS1


How appropriate Hacking the Skies.The problem here as this has never been done before so they don’t have the data to suggest it can work. It’s also possible it will back fire and cause damage, creating droughts, famines, damage to food crops to other negative consequences.

This is just one more example of how our government plays God with the air we breathe and Global environmental Health. If you think our skies are clean and unhampered with you are very wrong.

As shocking as it is to admit there are indeed Chemtrails, Geoengineering, bioengineering, bio-warfare, Ionospheric manipulation and other EXPERIMENTS going on in our skies.

If you look back through History, that I provided it’s a possibility that we have created the problems with the atmosphere, especially HAARP related testing.

Now they want to blast 20 million tons of sulfur dioxide into the stratosphere. If you read the article Hydrogen is in the plan, as well.

I doubt it will be on TV for us to watch and most likely won’t be mentioned.
Doesn’t it make you wonder why the rest of the world allows this?

The G20 and UN are in control of all major decisions, including what goes on in the US and on a Global scale. These documents are usually classified.

reply to post by wonderworld


Whoa, Whoa, ww, rein in your horses and hold up for a moment.

This is just one more example of how our government plays God with the air we breathe and Global environmental Health....

As shocking as it is to admit there are indeed Chemtrails, Geoengineering, bioengineering, bio-warfare, Ionospheric manipulation and other EXPERIMENTS going on in our skies.

Your SF article used phrases like "begun to consider", "theoretically" and "highly speculative".

Also, "fringe science", which is exactly what it is.

All of the atmospheric sampling and measurements record data, data that can be utilized for many reasons. Mostly in weather forecasting, one would think. And, IF there were a serious plan of this global catastrophe-diverting nature, that data would be useful in planning and predicting the outcomes....BUT it certainly would not be done in secret!

Something on that order of magnitude --- "20 million tons"??? --- isn't going to happen under our noses (sorry, terrible pun, I know).

Just stop, have a cup of tea (or my favorite, Gin & T) and contemplate the immensity of 20 million tons for a few moments.

OK, are you back?

From what I've read, there is likely more air pollution from new carpet you install in your home, than what's outside right now. Pesticides included. (Unless you deliberately stand under a crop duster as it sprays you point-blank...)

Originally posted by wonderworld
I get the feeling you are nervous about my recent spraying mechanism images and Historical data.

Not at all.
As a matter of fact, it's simply an attempt to get some idea of what you consider to be Chemtrails, since we keep seeing stuff that is really off-topic show up in believers posts. You start doing the logistics, and you will see how impossible that this really is. Believe me, the company that I worked for distributed fuel for this area, and I have some idea of the amount of people who were involved in just the partial statewide distribution, tankage, and loading (from port to plane). I think you will be surprised how many people would have to be in the know for this to be occurring on the scale that Chemies claim. Since most claims must be false, then if we measure by the rod you guys set, maybe they all are...

reply to post by defcon5


O.K you be the judge. Am I a typical Chemtrailer or have a different twist? I'm anxious to hear back.

Defcon’s 1001 list of Questions;
First of all, if you’ve noticed most of my information and data on does not come from Chemtrail websites. It comes from scientific sources and other methods, with the exception of those chemtrail images. Most of my links and video’s are not connected to conspiracy based sites. Is there anything you don’t want to know Defcon?

1) What exactly do you consider Chemtrails, anything put in the air, or stuff that looks like your photos in the first post?

Contrails are always white. They do not change the colors of low flying clouds. Contrails do have this attribute at rare times but is not the norm. Sometimes caused when there is vertical mixing of air. Contrails exit directly behind the engines. Analysis of chemtrail residues have uncovered a variety of chemicals and other substances, including barium, Carbon disulfide, aluminum oxide, C4 hydrocarbons, as well as some listed below.
I don’t know EVERYTHING put in to the air but listed my opinion in answer #2. Yes some of my photos appear to be chemtrails but not all.

2) What do you think is in chemtrails?

This is a complicated question, Many toxicants. There are many chemical combinations; we have Electro-chemistry, Kinetic-chemistry, Physical Chemistry, Molecular Spectroscopy, NEUTRINO-chemistry, Photo-chemistry (polymers), Chemical-physics, , Astro-physics, Quantam physics, Nuclear-physics and much more. Here are some of the Chemicals being used in aerodisperse systems . Some proven by air samples and others suspected;

Isoprene, NaOH, Butanone, tricresyl phosphate, Chloromethane, Acrylonitrile, Ethylbenzene, Carbon disulfide, benzene, Barium, chromuium, sulfuric acid, BCTP, aluminum oxide, chlorine, , chlorobenzene, ethylene oxide , ethylbenzene, C4 hydrocarbons, bacteria. There are 67 toxic volatile organic compounds and 20 sulphur compounds in the air, this includes the US, India, Europe, most other Countries., I’m not listing each one. NEUTRINO-chemicals of include but not limited to; neutrino scattering from stellar material, with photon radiation. Neutrino bombarded oil chemicals. Very complex. The altitude difference is several has a huge affect on how neutrinos react.. The experiments show Neutrino chemical substances vary with altitude. I’m sure I forgot a few.

3) Do you believe that there are fibers in chemtrails?

Yes, micro fibers but NOT in all chemtrails. Chemical and biological agents contain (polymer) fibers., with fiber reinforced composites. Graphite fiber, Carbon fibre, or carbon graphite are heavily used by Aerospace, Civil engineering and Military. You might need to ask a Chemtrail pro on other fibers. The Air Force tankers on cloud seeding missions use strands of small polymers sprayed into the upper atmosphere to be heated resulting (polymer fibers). Some call these Angel Hair, among other things. Whatever they are it is proven people get ill after touching them. Mostly respiratory illnesses.

4) Do you think that supposed “Angel Hair” is from Chemtrails?

Since they (claim) they are of unknown origin I suspect they come from Extraterrestrial craft. Boo! The other rational idea about Angel hair is listed above. You should have made it one question. Polymer fibers cause these Angel Hair looking things. See above answer #3. Their existence isn’t denied only their origin. HAARP is in on this one.

5) Do you believe that there are Nano-bots or whatever in them?

Yes, If it was Spring time most would suspect this is simply pollen. Given the large amount of data seen in summer most people speculate it’s smart dust, with tiny engines. The Navy admits it. More listed below in answer # 6.

You like combining questions. Smart dust isn’t sprayed in conjunction with anything other substance other than an electromagnetic technique. Nanotechnology is working on a molecule-sized electronic device. Nano-tech is fun if in the right hands but like everything else it doesn’t end up benefiting the people much.
If they are out there measuring temperatures and other atmospheric data we are also breathing them.
They don’t just stay in the clouds and are dispersed after the chemtrail is done. Some simply don’t like them and connect them with RFID technology. They would have many uses.

6) Do you think that there is a link between these and Morgellions?

Yes and No. The nanofibers Fibers found in patients of Morgellons disease could not be found in the FBI Fiber database. (Naval Intelligence) has recommended
looking into Smart Dust; although it is still hypothetical at this point. A smart dust can be studied with silicon and fabrication techniques.

They may contain computing circuits, sensors, and bidirectional wireless communications technology with a power supply. Widespread use may still be years off but that’s only if you believe the Military.

Genetically modified organisms, from Herbicide spraying is another answer. I’m not sure if they know the exact causes of Morgellions. Is there a new breakthrough?

7) Do you think that all photos of "supposed" chemtrails are in fact chemtrails?

No. I put them up to see which ones could be validated. I think I wrote that at the beginning of this thread. I asked for help to determine that.

8) If not how do you differentiate?

See above in answer # 7.

9) Do you believe in Persistent Contrails?

Yes; although many chemtrailers would argue that. Not in a grid formation.

10) Are private or commercial pilots in danger from flying through them?

If they were off their flight paths, when an operation was going on. Hey I wonder if HAARP has caused any commercial airliners to crash, since you brought it up. It is possible to do!! There is recent news about the inside the cabin of Aircraft having contaminates, that may endanger Pilots and public. I would like to know the cause of that!

11) Would it pose an aerial hazard to other aircraft?

Normal chemtrails wouldn’t endanger the function of other aircraft. Like I said before approximately 20 planes frequently fly near HAARP related activity which could cause problems with weather patterns and pressure layers. They would have restricted airspace when doing spray missions.

Logistics stuff:

1) How widespread do you think that chemtrails are?

Global! Dating back to the 20’s, when spraying arsenic was considered safe.

2) How much Chemtrail coverage do you estimate around the world in a day?

I don’t think its daily. Are you talking about the volume of sprayed material? I cant estimate that without global data. They’re hitting India pretty hard lately!

3) How many aircraft do you think are involved in this?

I never counted. That’s an odd question.

4) How much material would each aircraft have to carry?

Different missions and the size of the plane would indicate the volume upon each plane. I cant give you an amount of liters on Military Aircraft only on commercial airlines.

5) What types of Aircraft are involved?

C-130, Military jets, UN jets and others.

6) Where do they fly from?

A Navy Carrier, Mexico, Military bases, Retired Military bases. They also go from Country to Country for the transport.

7) Do you think ATC is involved?

Yes, of course but they don’t ask questions. They are at the bottom of the link of command. Classified Air missions aren’t public knowledge to ATC. The Pentagon and Military make the rules. Not even IATA are aware of Top Secret missions.

8) Do you think Commercial Airline personnel are involved?

No, not during commercial flights. I don’t know what they do in their spare time. I guess there is a remote possibility or pending a government contract.

9) Do you think that Private Pilots are involved?

No, unless they have a government contract.

10) Where is this stuff manufactured?

Scientific research facilities, on Military bases near the Industrial Complexes, retired Military compounds, In Mexico, US and other Countries.

11) How is it shipped to its distribution point?

By a Hazmat team. Under any appropriate means of travel. IATA and D.O.T. regulations have lots of loopholes. The military, Pentagon and UN out trump IATA and DOT. They can get around this by declaring they have a small quantity, rather than a Reportable quantity. Most is still is classified . The NORMAL transport requires labeling. Keep in mind this transport methods does not apply to classified or Top Secret operations, below is a list of commonly transported hazards and classifications;


EXPLOSIVES 1.6
FLAMMABLE GAS
NONFLAMMABLE GAS
POISON GAS
FLAMMABLE LIQUID
FLAMMABLE SOLID
SPONTANEOUSLY COMBUSTIBLE
DANGEROUS WHEN WET
OXIDIZER
CORROSIVE
ORGANIC PEROXIDE
POISON INHALATION HAZARD (zone A or B)
POISON (other than inhalation hazard)
RADIOACTIVE WHITE-I
RADIOACTIVE YELLOW-II
RADIOACTIVE YELLOW-III
INFECTIOUS SUBSTANCE
EMPTY (empty packages of radioactives)
CLASS 9

During operations at Area 51 and Groom Lake most stuff was either, buried, burned or moved inside the Yucca Mountain like spent nuke rods and other Hazardous things. Spent nuke rods are still being delivered.

[edit on 30-7-2009 by wonderworld]

Part 2 answers. They cut me off on the first one I had too many characters. I do talk to much but you asked.


Spent nuke rods are still being delivered to the back hills of Nevada. I heard we have recently became the WORLDS nuke waste facility.

12) Where is it stored until loaded on the aircraft?

Inner container: in glass ampoules, absorbent: flakes in vermiculite, outer packing: in 1H1 plastic drums. I assume it’s stored at the manufacturer or transport destination.

13) Is it a liquid, powder, or what?

Both plus many more chemically bioengineered substances and means of spraying, dumping or blasting.

14) Would ground crews be in danger from handling this substance?

Not on a Military controlled area. Chem suits are required. At an airport Yes, if the containers are not marked correctly and packaged according to DOT regulations. On commercial Airlines If the plane goes to/from the US,on a cargo plane the total volume is 2 liters of concentrated Sodium Hydroxide. Passenger planes 1 liter. I don’t think the Military lists their volumes.

15) How is it loaded on the aircraft?

See answer # 12. Again it depends on what it is. One guy with a vile of bio-chemical warfare could wipe out a large city. It wouldn’t take 10 guys. The larger containers are marked with a Hazardous material stickers. Air Force and Navy personnel may not know what it is but wear Chem. Suits while loading it.

16) What apparatus is used to disperse it?

I already gave you that answer and showed illustrations here on page 29.. One smaller method is the D6-46 pump nozzle for aerosols and liquids. A different method for dust (as you call it) There are many similar and larger but the same concept. Chemtrails, are also expelled from ports along the entire wing surface, not directly in line with the engines.

It also depends what they are doing. They have huge ionic blasters for some projects, electromagnet units. It also depends on the size of the droplets and altitude. We are capable to dispersing things in to the Stratosphere and Ionosphere. We also have a galactic-unit. Old school stuff. You should read my Historical data again. You must think I pull this stuff out of my @$$ or something.

17) Estimate the number of people who would have to be involved with this substance to manufacture, ship, distribute, store, load, and disperse it?

The manufacturing of most has been complete in the 80’s. I don’t have a copy of the manufacturers government contract to see the volume they ordered. Depending on what they are doing it could result in one person with a vile to a couple large Navy Aircraft. All other answers are above. I already answered them.

Is there anything else you’d like to know? Many Chemtrailers have different perceptions than me. Most are also more knowledgeable on the subject.. Do I fit the profile of the typical chemtrailer? Whatever that is ?

reply to post by defcon5


quote] Ok, these threads always go the same way. [quote

Yes, I have noticed this also...and I've noticed that they usually attract many of the same people who have apparently dedicated themselves to challenging any mention of secret spraying at high altitudes.
Where's Oz Weatherman ? I can think of some others.

I myself have tired of debating this issue having seen what I have after a long military aviation career. ' Why bother ' isn't much of an excuse, but- well, it's gotten a little old.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Thanks for trying, OP

reply to post by Skelkie3


Some people simply dont get it. Most want scientific proof. When I get scientific it turns everyone off so I go back to plane images. Do you want some scientific proof?

Read this. I have lots more.

UNCLASSIFIED proof below;

www.dtic.mil...

That's the old school stuff I'll find recent ones.


[edit on 30-7-2009 by wonderworld]

[edit on 30-7-2009 by wonderworld]

You want meterology?

Aerosol light absorption measurement techniques: Analysis and intercomparisons

Antony D. Clarke*, Kevin J. Noone†, Jost Heintzenberg‡, Stephen G. Warren§ and Dave S. Covert†

†Environmental Engineering and Science Program, University of Washington, Seattle, WA, U.S.A.

‡Department of Meteorology, University of Stockholm, Stockholm, Sweden

*Hawaii Institute of Geophysics, University of Hawaii, Honolulu, HI, U.S.A.

§Department of Atmospheric Sciences, University of Washington, Seattle, WA, U.S.A.

Received 30 January 1986;
revised 1 August 1986.
Available online 14 April 2003.

Abstract
A controlled study was carried out to evaluate three measurement techniques used for the determination of aerosol light absorption coefficients from aerosol samples collected on various filter substrates. These techniques were found to agree within about 10–30% when applied to a range of filter loading obtained for a laboratory generated calibration aerosol. Microphysical properties of the calibration aerosol were used to model its optical effects using Mie theory. The measured and modeled optical properties were found to differ by less than 30%. Qualitative and quantitative agreement of these techniques indicate that they provide a reasonable indirect method for the determination of atmospheric aerosol absorption coefficients and the related concentration of elemental carbon aerosol.

www.sciencedirect.com... 0221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=dc4744d2ee989847a5414f44e43aa4c2

Mie theory
en.wikipedia.org...