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The Chemtrail Phenomenon

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posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by Mindmelding
 


What about this? Does it look like chem tracks?


No, looks like bog standard common or garden distrails. Any particular reason you think otherwise?


Originally posted by wonderworld

Local news station confirms Barium in Chemtrails



And where exactly d they confirm barium in chemtrails? I found a snail in my garden yesterday, Does that prove what look like contrails are really millions of little snails floating down to earth?

Check out the meaning of non sequitur - oh and (a little OT) take my advice and never beleive anything you see in the media unless you have good independant verification. When you've personally known friends misquoted out of context to imply the exact opposite of what they actually said, you'll understand why!




posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by Mindmelding
 


Many have reported seeing completely white planes, when seeing chemtrails at a lower altitude. The only white plane I know of are from the UN.

There are other planes, as well. Ive also seen images of drones spraying chems.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by Essan
 


You forgot to add the link; it does have significance. I can find similar ones if you wish.

Local news station confirms Barium in Chemtrails


www.youtube.com...








[edit on 3-6-2009 by wonderworld]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by Mindmelding
 


Many have reported seeing completely white planes, when seeing chemtrails at a lower altitude. The only white plane I know of are from the UN.

There are other planes, as well. Ive also seen images of drones spraying chems.


Funnily enough I saw 3 white planes laying down chemtrails just a few hours ago. Twin jets, probably smaller airframes, like 737's, but a bit too far away for me to identify.

Lot's of leasing companies have white jets, it's the default paint scheme before airlines put their liveries on, this because it's the most reflective colour and they spend a lot of time in direct sunlight at 30 000ft. Sometimes you see them in service as charters before they even get painted, as was the case with a a320 I saw recently at a local airport.

But I agree with the UN as a hypothesis for all this, just that I think they are using military and other corporations for the "dirty" work.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 05:01 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by Mindmelding
Yes, and for every chemtrail flight I have seen hundreds of commercial ones. Your point?


My point is... how do you know the difference? Specifically.

Maybe you ought to read that debate thread, and then you would understand where I'm coming from, because believe me, I have researched this topic ever since it appeared, and nothing I've read has swayed me away from my stance that its nothing but fear mongering and ignorance.

You say its small scale. That contradicts the claims made of world wide spraying. You say its "discrete", and yet to be worldwide the number of airframes, production and storage facilites for the chemicals and transfer/fuelling points would be huge. The two don't add up.

As for



Again, if you're talking from a thought experiment perspective, please get out more. This has to be experienced to be discussed.


Whats with the insult? I am a self confessed aviation nut. I am obsessed with the sky. I don't play mind games and I certainly don't appreciate being told to "get out more". I don't think anyone ever appreciates that kind of rhetoric.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 05:06 PM
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I am no meteorologist, but I do have an aerospace degree and I have been in the industry for nearly a dozen years military included.

Those pictures are of a phenomenon known as contrails. The high pressure created from aircraft surfaces and engines causes the vapor in the air to coalesce. This causes a man-made type of cloud that looks like lines in the sky.

I AM NOT saying that there are no such things as chem-trails, I have not seen or heard about them personally in the industry. Not even a peep. The pictures shown above are not anything special in my opinion. If you youtube a video of a fighter jet or maybe a B-1 bomber at high speed pulling a manouver you will see the contrails being created from the outside edge of the wing surfaces. Jet exhaust can also create this for other reasons.

I find the subject interesting, but I have always found it odd that there are no pilots, crew members, or ground crews blowing any whistles. I assure you that all (well most) of the pilots I know are a special breed. Most are respectful and conscientious individuals that would definitely report anything that could possibly cause harm to any civilian. I have known pilots who crashed their aircraft and died trying to avoid populated areas during emergency's. They dump all their fuel as fast as they can so that they don't cause any fires if they crash. These guys would not stand for this chem-trail business.

That said, I have an open mind and I don't discount the phenomenon. I do however have more experience than most in the aerospace arena. I assure you I will be on this site blabbing if I find out otherwise.

-Namaste



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 05:09 PM
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I also wonder where these aircraft are? What are these chemicals and where are they made?

The aircraft would have to be specially made or likely a modified version of a current model. Where are these? Why are there no pictures? They have to land somewhere right? If this is a world wide issue, which has been put forward, then there must be these special aircraft models all over the place right? The 'secret gov't' cant store that many aircraft underground in their alien bases. Space restrictions you understand.


Still, these are serious questions.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 05:10 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.




Originally posted by wonderworld
The only white plane I know of are from the UN.


Google search for airliner

Most of them are predominantly white. At altitude all you are likely to see is the underside, and not the upper cabins or tailplanes.

Frankly, I'm kind of stunned that you've made that statement.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by neformore
 


Small scale in relation to the total number of aircraft in the air. I only see them a few days a month in my region.The entire operation is probably massive, dozens if not hundreds of planes and double the number of pilots, at least. But remember that even a small airline nowadays can have 60 or 70 planes, so it's not that hard to imagine some 50 planes over Europe laying down chemtrails. Only seems like a contradiction out of context.

Honestly Neformore, if you say you live in england and are an aviation nut and have never seen a chemtrail despite looking regularly at the sky... I just can't believe you. Sorry, I just can't. If I'm wrong I'm wrong I guess. I know it's not pleasant to hear someone dosen't believe you, but hey, at least I'm honest...



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by Spirit Warrior
 


That is one detail which bothers me too, the lack of whistleblowing pilots. I have two theories...

1) They are military pilots. These won't talk about classified operations for fear of getting thrown in the brig.

2) They are civilian but scared senseless by some classified environmental data along the lines of "if we don't do anything all life on earth will spontaneously combust", just slightly less silly so they buy it. Of course this would be a lie, it takes a special sort of person, a conspiracy theorist, to realise that most of our society is run on lies. Most people can't stomach this and live in denial all their lives, A type personalities like pilots being no exception.

But I honestly don't know what's going on other than I see chemtrails...

Edit: another theory which is so obvious I didn't think about it, that is that maybe the chemtrail airliners are retrofitted fuselages retired from the airliner industry and fully automated, as has been done for target drones and UAVs. Perhaps there is only a handfull of pilots, controlling these things in computer centers and they take off and land either by remote control or on full autopilot. This way a relatively small number of people would actually be controlling the planes, knowing where they go and what they do. This would make sense, and would reduce the number of potential whistleblowers.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by Mindmelding]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by Mindmelding
 


Thank you for clearing up my white plane idea. I dont want to see white planes and think the UN is involves; although I know they are connected.

We are having crop failures, ill people with a number of health realted problems. A global food shortage in 2009. I happen to have a thread on that.

Too much to deny.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by Spirit Warrior
 


You wont find any whistle blowers one guy ended up dead over his research, from the loaded gun site.

It's the government playing God trying to fix the ozone but only causes more damage and affects health, crops, weather, etc.

Sometimes they use drones.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by Spirit Warrior
 


You would be surprised to know the technology coming from Aerospace technology!

Just think about the blackbird we never knew of it until it was retired. Guys wont spill the beans.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by wonderworld]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 08:34 PM
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Using "plumes of atmospheric particles to act as a lens or focusing device,"http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/omegafile30.htm



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 08:40 PM
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The scientific conspirators have also discovered that they can artificially increase the density of the charged particles within these radiation belts, and even create a radiation belt where none had existed,www.rense.com...



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by wonderworld
 



Sometimes they use drones.


Allright....let's not jump the shark, here. If by "drones" you mean UAVs...have you ever seen a picture of one??? They're only slightly larger than a Cessna....maybe about as big as a Cessna 208....it is a fixed-wing, fixed-gear single-engine turbo-prop still (I think) currently used as a small feeder for FedEx.

Here's an example picture (if I did it correctly) of the Cessna:

www.google.com...://www.airplanemart.com/aircraft-manufacturers/photo/lg/Cessna-208-Caravan-Single-Engine-Turbo-Prop-Airplane-N 688RB.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.airplanemart.com/aircraft-manufacturers/Cessna-Aircraft-Company.html&h=600&w=900&sz=153&tbnid=_kUISqUSplP0TM:&tbnh=97&t bnw=146&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcessna%2B208%2Bcaravan&hl=en&usg=__Rmg6oF0c8GQJgjP-eOLDs_ru07w=&ei=giEnSvKSGZSMtgfB6oncBg&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=5&ct= image

Oh dear...that's a lot of gobbledygook....well, let's see if it works when I press "reply"....

EDIT...will try to fix link....

here: www.airplanemart.com...&h=600&w=900&sz=153&tbnid=_kUISqUSplP0TM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=146&prev=/image< br />
EDIT again....just go the the sales website, and search there, I guess...easier!!

Well....here's a pic of the 'Predator'....hopefully:


www.google.com...://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/UAV_Predator_Italian_Air_Force.JPG&imgrefurl=http://commons.wik imedia.org/wiki/File:UAV_Predator_Italian_Air_Force.JPG&h=1944&w=2592&sz=262&tbnid=qty7a97fD6zBxM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Duav%2Bpredator &hl=en&usg=__g0a_DmXajCCXl7DXeR0nN57g--I=&ei=FysnSv6UK4eMtgeMuoXdBg&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=3&ct=image
My point is....sure, the military has UAVs....they can fly high, almost silently....they are SLOW, though....since they are used for video recon. AND the amount of payload (that would be any liquid they wished to 'spray') plus the weight of the fuel required for a 'mission' would be....well, it just not compute, for airplanes that size.

AND...the UAVs require quite a team to operate...saw a story, either on History or Discovery, recently. Was amazed how much they revealed....still, knew that a lot was still classified.

They are deployed in the Middle east, naturally. The docu was filmed in the States....Nevada, since they're actually possible to be 'flown' from Nellis AFB, near LAS....the 'pilot' is there, the airplane is in Iraq. One airplane, remotely flown, on a multi-hour misson, can cover territory....for surveillance!!! They simply aren't suited for 'spraying' some sort of nefarious chemicals. Too slow, not enough payload capability.

(of course, the light speed delay of the various satellite links needed....got me thinking. They never answered that little gem, prolly classified)

I'm guessing a local guy takes-off and lands, handing off to the guys in Nevada....just brainstorming.....

neforemore had it spot on....I've mentioned this before, bears repeating: Airplanes, at altitude, almnost always appear all white, when seen from distances approaching thousands of feet. If you have magnification, you require very good optics to discern good detail, and color.

AND, UN airplanes are usually a white/light blue scheme...so, still if you wish to 'blame' them, I cannot rule that option out. IF it's 'top secret', then....well

As to civilian pilots....believe me when I tell you, I would have heard at least rumors. There is NO equipment on commercial passenger jets, at least we can agree on that!!! Again...too many people, can't keep secrets...and, besides, we have the weight problem again.....even on a large jet. A B737, departing the East Coast of the USA, nonstop to the West Coast, with a full load of passengers and their bags, and otehr payload cargo, is often quite close to MGTOW (Max take-off weight).

Look....a thought occured to me, as I went out to the store this evening, in Virginia, around 1900 local time. I was going to be sarcastic....because, huge weather storms are moving through....and, the skies were such a creepy milky white, mixed with other colors....many layers, some yellowy/orangy....some grayish....

My point here is: These are very normal, various cloud types seen in the event of appraching weather. SOMEtimes, the approaching high-altitude cirrus will mix witht he lingering contrails....since, the contrails are lingering precisely because, the cirrus are able to form as well!!!! It is the nature of the moisture content in the upper altitudes of the airmass.

Sometimes, thunder-bumpers form....other times, the energy of the approaching weather front peters out....and you get the homogenous-looking mass of ordinary clouds....the hazy look, due to the high humidity.

Cumulo-Nimbus are generated primarily by heating from below....why they occur more often in Summer. But, in essence, the big storms that will finally break out into rain need some sort of 'uplifting' force to form....besides heating from below, winds aloft can force lower levels of airmasses over geographically inclined lifting forces....air is a fluid, all fluids act like liquids, in physics. Otherwise, airplanes wouldn't fly at all, in the first place!! (Nor, birds for that matter...)

There is no simple answer, in meteorlogical forecasting. Most of it is based a lot on intuition, and prior experience, and previous reports from areas miles and miles away....and the variety of upper-altitude steering currents....it goes on and on.

Best place, I've always thought, to work in meteorology is in Hawai'i. Boring, but very very predictable. Hmmm....gettng an idea. But, would need to go back to school to get a degree in WX forecasting....naw, rather just lay in the beach and watch clouds go by....


[edit on 6/3/0909 by weedwhacker]



[edit on 6/3/0909 by weedwhacker]


[edit on 6/3/0909 by weedwhacker]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 08:52 PM
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The key to geophysical warfare,” McDonald wrote, “is the identification of the environmental instabilities to which the addition of a small amount of energy would release vastly greater amounts of energy.” [54]http://thewebfairy.com/911/uav/3.htm



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Any air craft can be used as a drone size dose not matter.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by blc4r4
 


Care to back that up with examples????

I think you missed the salient points....in any case, pilots are cheaper, unless you're using a vehicle that is specifically designed to be operated in a dangerous area....and I don't think Wichita, Kansas is not a place to be worried about getting shot down!!!



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 09:11 PM
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Since the inception of the program, scientific understanding of the behavior of atmospheric aerosols has improved considerably.www.esrl.noaa.gov...



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