It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Feminism: Good or Bad?

page: 6
13
<< 3  4  5    7  8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 30 2009 @ 08:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
BAD!!! While things such as letting women vote and allowing them the opportunity to work have been good things, the number of negatives far outweigh the positives. The OP has summed it up rather well so I don't think I need to elaborate.

What I will say to those who think Feminism has been good and enriches humanity, why don't you research who supported, funded and executed the push for women's liberation through the feminist movement.

Paraphrasing one of the descendants of a famous elite family:

"Before women's liberation we could only tax half the population. Also, putting women in the workforce would break up families and cause the kids to rely on the state as their guardians, which allows us to control and mould them in a way that we desire."

I know a lot of people will be offended by these statements, but they are the real reason why women's liberation flourished and has lead to the current situation. It may be painful, but it is the truth.


Please please please provide a citation for this quote. I did a search and guess what I came up with? YOUR POST. So either you're making stuff up, or I'm just losing my Google-Fu skills. Also, because ONE PERSON said it, does not make it true for the majority of the people involved.




posted on Oct, 30 2009 @ 09:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by Edrick

Whenever A Woman claims that they are equal to men... I have only ONE REBUTTAL.

"AT WHAT?"

Seriously..... this is dumb.


-Edrick


After a woman harvests your sperm.

You are dismissed.

[edit on 30-10-2009 by Annee]



posted on Oct, 30 2009 @ 09:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Edrick

Whenever A Woman claims that they are equal to men... I have only ONE REBUTTAL.

"AT WHAT?"

Seriously..... this is dumb.


-Edrick


After a woman harvests your sperm.

You are dismissed.

[edit on 30-10-2009 by Annee]



If only, you missed out the constant nagging, the emotional rollercoaster of being in trouble and not knowing why and then being in even more trouble because you dont know why. Women are a huge monster of emotion that leave you second guessing at every opportunity. The fact people think we are equal scares me, women are far craftier underhanded and im afraid to say it but crueller then men ever could be.



posted on Oct, 30 2009 @ 10:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by R-evolve

If only, you missed out the constant nagging, the emotional rollercoaster of being in trouble and not knowing why and then being in even more trouble because you dont know why. Women are a huge monster of emotion that leave you second guessing at every opportunity. The fact people think we are equal scares me, women are far craftier underhanded and im afraid to say it but crueller then men ever could be.


OH Gawd! The ME - ME - its all about ME! Not my problem.

FACT: the only thing woman can not do that men do is: produce sperm.

FACT: sperm freezes for a very long time. Some researcher claim frozen sperm is actually healthier. Plus harvested sperm can be screened for defects.

Man is technically obsolete.



posted on Nov, 1 2009 @ 07:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by R-evolve

If only, you missed out the constant nagging, the emotional rollercoaster of being in trouble and not knowing why and then being in even more trouble because you dont know why. Women are a huge monster of emotion that leave you second guessing at every opportunity. The fact people think we are equal scares me, women are far craftier underhanded and im afraid to say it but crueller then men ever could be.


OH Gawd! The ME - ME - its all about ME! Not my problem.

FACT: the only thing woman can not do that men do is: produce sperm.

FACT: sperm freezes for a very long time. Some researcher claim frozen sperm is actually healthier. Plus harvested sperm can be screened for defects.

Man is technically obsolete.



Yeah but if the sperm freezer breaks whose gonna fix it, and who is going to open those tight sperm jars.

You are unbelievably deluded if you think one sex could exist without another. The whole women organise better than men amuses me greatly, the entire world and technology today is based on mans thoughts and visions society itself functions on mens ideas and revolves around plans put into place and ran by men. Stronger faster and smarter; in this species men are the superior, but women have boobs so their influence should not be underestimated
patronised at all. I love how the freezing of sperm makes some people think thats all there is to the human sexes, if only it was all so simple.



posted on Nov, 1 2009 @ 09:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by R-evolve

You are unbelievably deluded if you think one sex could exist without another. The whole women organise better than men amuses me greatly, the entire world and technology today is based on mans thoughts and visions society itself functions on mens ideas and revolves around plans put into place and ran by men. Stronger faster and smarter; in this species men are the superior, but women have boobs so their influence should not be underestimated
patronised at all. I love how the freezing of sperm makes some people think thats all there is to the human sexes, if only it was all so simple.


The male ego speaketh. Not really a good platform for logical intelligent debate.

I have born-natural spatial thinking. I visualize 3-dimensional boxes and how they fit together. Its a great asset for organizational skills.

As humans progress intellectually - the need for physical difference is diminishing.



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 12:39 AM
link   
I removed this thread from my subscriptions long ago, so haven't seen it in a while now.


Originally posted by dawntreader

Please please please provide a citation for this quote. I did a search and guess what I came up with? YOUR POST. So either you're making stuff up, or I'm just losing my Google-Fu skills. Also, because ONE PERSON said it, does not make it true for the majority of the people involved.


I think you need to re-read my post. What I said was that I was paraphrasing what was said by another person. I did not imply that it was a quoted extract from a literal speech that was given by a certain person. The text within the quotes I used are a rewording of what Nick Rockefeller told Aaron Russo when they were friends. They had many conversations together and were quite good friends at one point. The subject of Feminism came up and Nick told Aaron these were the real reasons for Women's Liberation and the Feminism movement.

It is true that one person's opinion does not make something true. But I ask you to consider what Russo said he was told, to weigh up why the Global Elite have supported this push for women's lib, the situation of the world today, and the threat that the "nuclear family" is facing. Can you not see how all the dots connect on this Feminism issue?

If you wish to remain ignorant and believe that Women's Liberation and the Feminist movement were and still are about equal rights for women, then that is your decision. Feminism is a CLASSIC example of divide and conquer.


Originally posted by Annee
The male ego speaketh. Not really a good platform for logical intelligent debate.

I have born-natural spatial thinking. I visualize 3-dimensional boxes and how they fit together. Its a great asset for organizational skills.

As humans progress intellectually - the need for physical difference is diminishing.


Can't wait until Sex Robots become standard and affordable for all. Feminists such as yourself will then be placed back into reality.
. When that day comes you and others with the same ideologies will be crying for a return to traditional values. Perhaps that's just my "Male ego" speaking?


[edit on 2/11/2009 by Dark Ghost]



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 08:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

As humans progress intellectually - the need for physical difference is diminishing.



Can't wait until Sex Robots become standard and affordable for all. Feminists such as yourself will then be placed back into reality.
. When that day comes you and others with the same ideologies will be crying for a return to traditional values. Perhaps that's just my "Male ego" speaking?



Who's traditional values would those be?

Companionship or a physical act?

Does intellectual companionship require a physical act?

Realty? I greatly admire the matriarchal society of elephants.

(edited for quote correction)

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Annee]



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 10:19 AM
link   

Originally posted by Annee

Who's traditional values would those be?


Traditional values where men were loved and respected for being men and women were loved and respected for being women. Acknowledging and accepting that while both sexes have different strengths and different weaknesses, they can both live alongside another and treat each other with respect.


Companionship or a physical act?


Depends on the person I guess. I think "relationship companionship" is more for asexuals and older people. You can get companionship with many non-human creatures. Pets, relatives, friends, strangers etc. I think younger couples are usually after more physical bonding than mental bonding.


Does intellectual companionship require a physical act?


That's an interesting concept. I guess it comes down to how you define intellectual companionship. I can get intellectual companionship from reading and explicating the work of past philosophers. You can get intellectual companionship from reading science journals.


Realty? I greatly admire the matriarchal society of elephants.


I'm glad you admire the matriarchal society of elephants. I am rather an elephant fan, especially the baby elephants they are very cute.

Personally, I admire the lifestyle of bonobos. Not only do they make love to reproduce, they use sex as a form of therapy to alleviate social conflicts as well! Can you imagine if us humans did the same? Maybe the world would be a much nicer place?

Unfortunately we are neither elephants nor bonobos, we are humans. I find it interesting that you greatly admire the matriarchal society of elephants, but I must ask whether you find it sexist in some respects. After all, you do not really want a matriarchal society for humanity now do you? That would not be very equal, would it? Sure, it might make women superior to men, but that's not the end-goal of Feminism now is it?


[edit on 2/11/2009 by Dark Ghost]



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 11:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

Unfortunately we are neither elephants nor bonobos, we are humans. I find it interesting that you greatly admire the matriarchal society of elephants, but I must ask whether you find it sexist in some respects. After all, you do not really want a matriarchal society for humanity now do you? That would not be very equal, would it? Sure, it might make women superior to men, but that's not the end-goal of Feminism now is it?




Absolutely I want a matriarchal society for humans. Only a man would think its about superiority. As you probably think patriarchal means superior to women.

Superiority means what? In the animal world I suppose physical strength would be superior. Clue 1 - we have progressed beyond Neanderthals.

I had this discussion years ago and had access to history studies of human matriarchal societies. I have been unable to relocate those studies at this time. I base my support of a matriarchal society on those studies. The elephant society is the best "prop" example.

Brains are different in physical genders. However its been discovered that brains of some lesbians/gays/transgenders show similarities of male in female and female in male. Gender is not black and white - - but shades of gray.

The brain adapts with input. With increased intelligence and the diminishing need of physical differences for survival - - saying "Women are Women and Men are Men" is a bit archaic. IMO

However (extreme simplification) - the classic woman's brain is that of a nurturing multi-tasker - - - while the classic men's brain is single focused on survival by force if necessary.

Again I say "Man as Man" is becoming obsolete.



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 09:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by mhinsey

Originally posted by Republican08
reply to post by marklance30
 


Agreed, I'm all for women rights, I'm an advocate that they should also be on the top of the line when a draft is called in, as to not make them feel secluded or unequal.


I am a woman and I agree with that statement except it should not be on gender selection but on either age, name, skillset, etc...



I agree too. I have always thought every citizen should be required to serve in some capacity. I have never agreed just because you are a man - - that you should be sent into combat. Not all men are suited for it - - and could serve in some other capacity.

By the way - - it is men who do not allow women to go to the front lines.



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 06:30 AM
link   

Originally posted by Annee

Absolutely I want a matriarchal society for humans. Only a man would think its about superiority. As you probably think patriarchal means superior to women.


Can you please elaborate on how such a society should be run and come about? Only a man would think it's about superiority? Nice attempt at stirring the pot, but you will have to do better than that.


Superiority means what? In the animal world I suppose physical strength would be superior. Clue 1 - we have progressed beyond Neanderthals.


Superior does not only mean physically dominant. I'm not sure where you are basing this from. But if you take away everything and you are left within nature and its bare essentials, then physical strength and endurance does mean much more chance of survival. Just look at animals and how they function. Survival of the fittest and most determined.


I had this discussion years ago and had access to history studies of human matriarchal societies. I have been unable to relocate those studies at this time. I base my support of a matriarchal society on those studies. The elephant society is the best "prop" example.


When you do come across these studies, please post them in this thread as I am sure some others would be interested in reviewing them.


Brains are different in physical genders. However its been discovered that brains of some lesbians/gays/transgenders show similarities of male in female and female in male. Gender is not black and white - - but shades of gray.


Gender is more a human-made characteristic. Most other animals biologically and physiologically fit into one of two sexes - males and females. There are exceptions, but the word gender comes mainly from the field of psychology. That is because gender refers more to the nature of the psyche and behaviour, as you have mentioned. Unfortunately, much of psychology involves conjecture and the notion of "gender" is one such example.


The brain adapts with input. With increased intelligence and the diminishing need of physical differences for survival - - saying "Women are Women and Men are Men" is a bit archaic. IMO


I do not necessarily agree with this. We live in an increasingly intelligent world where technology and AI is becoming more prevalent. However, humans do not rely on technology to build upon their knowledge. It is simply more convenient quicker to use technology, but what happens if all of this technology and this idea of an "intellectual society" disappears? What happens when the smartest of people are placed in a situation where they cannot physically defend themselves, and no intellectual capacity alone can save them?


However (extreme simplification) - the classic woman's brain is that of a nurturing multi-tasker - - - while the classic men's brain is single focused on survival by force if necessary.


The first part is proven by scientific research, the latter consists of Radical Feminist garbage designed to undermine the qualities of men. Did you conveniently forget that the classic man's brain is that of an analytical problem solver? Notice how you used "woman" when describing a view that supports and favours views about the "average woman", while the use of the plural "men's brain" shows that this group is more simple and less worthy of uniqueness and diversity. Rather unconscious to those with this particular mindset, but still discernible by those not influenced by this mindset.


Again I say "Man as Man" is becoming obsolete.


It seems to me that you are trying to blur the line between what separates one gender from another. When I talk about man, I am not just talking about "the male mind" because imo it does not exist. There is no "female mind" either. It is a misconception by psychologists who are mixing biological and physiological properties with behavioural properties in order to make gender seem scientifically more accurate than "sex."

Gender is really a politically correct term for those who are uncertain about their sexuality and/or sexual preference. There is no concrete evidence backing the existence of "gender" in this sense and this is why the whole issue is grey.



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 10:56 AM
link   
I gave my perspective. I stand by my perspective.

Discussion with someone open to different or new methods/possibilities interests me.

Debating someone who's views are set in concrete or "that's the way its always been" or who can't understand its not about superiority is of no interest to me.

Life is too short - it would be a waste of my time. I have no need to prove anything.



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 11:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by Annee
I gave my perspective. I stand by my perspective.

Discussion with someone open to different or new methods/possibilities interests me.

Debating someone who's views are set in concrete or "that's the way its always been" or who can't understand its not about superiority is of no interest to me.

Life is too short - it would be a waste of my time. I have no need to prove anything.


You have no need to prove anything. But if you believe and wish to state that Feminism is good, you should provide some reasoning as to how and why you reached this conclusion. Try not to look at it is as if I am challenging you or questioning your ability to think critically. That is not my intention. Some of my replies might be harsh at times but I am only human and I make mistakes and misjudgements like everyone else.



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 01:09 PM
link   
I will discuss - I will not debate - - its that simple.

New ideas - new concepts - new possibilities - new perceptions - etc.

I think you have made it quite clear you have a concrete negative concept of Feminism.

I don't do "Ping Pong" - - "I'm Right - you are Wrong"



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 01:27 PM
link   
One part I found interesting in the studies of matriarchal society - - - is lower reproduction.

It seems in male dominated societies the birth rate is much greater.



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 01:50 PM
link   
One of the problems that seem endemic in these sorts of debates is that each side throws out a term, in this case "feminist," and argues their position based on their interpretation of the term without ever checking to see if what they call "feminism" is in fact what their opponents call "feminism."

My official stance is that feminism as the idea that one should have equal opportunity and rights irrespective of gender is basic common sense.

Personally, I would prefer to live in a society where each individual can express themselves in a manner true to their own nature and can fulfil their potential, no matter what it is, without any reference to gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity or beliefs -- and where each person preserves that same rights for others as they receive themselves.

This position is oddly both far left wing with respect to the rejection of traditional social roles, and far right wing since it embraces individual freedom and liberties above all else. I kind of suspect I've gone right round to the back of the bird.

So I'm down for "good."


[edit on 3-11-2009 by metamagic]



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 02:36 PM
link   
On sort of an intuitive level, I say bad in general. "Feminism" is sort of broad. As far as individual things like equal pay, of course that makes sense to have for women, men, any race ect. I can't help but think that feminism has contributed to the increased rates of divorce. I think the dissolving of women's roles has also dissolved the roles men play in a relationship, I mean that's equal right? Yet you hear "There are no good men out there" uttered by some. Maybe its because you want them to play a role, but yourselves you don't want to be confined to a role.

I think there are a good number of "loser" men out there, but part of that is that there aren't any expectations really given to them, which stems from perhaps feminism. The power has shifted towards women, yet the women want the men to be more powerful. But even if the women changed and gave men more power, the men, some at least, wouldn't know what to do with it. So its two problems really stemming from feminism.

This won't make much sense probably, but on the physical level of things, things should be equal. Pay for example. But there has to be a difference/understanding on a spiritual/psychological level between the two sexes. Feminist traits I feel have contributed to the higher divorce rate, but also I think its bad for children to not have a strong male (not just a male) in their lives, look at how black children in particular turn out when they grow up fatherless. Its a disaster. Given the possibility, a strong male leading a family is better than a mishmash of 50/50 between men and women. Of course, that assumes the guy is competent which this day and age seems more and more rare.

[edit on 3-11-2009 by ghaleon12]



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 03:30 PM
link   
reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


Just so you know - you seem quite intelligent - and presented some good points.

But - you came on/in here as a Warrior. In my opinion - most of the posts on this thread are Fear Based Male Ego.

. . . and you can't see the problem?

------------------------------------------------------------------

I am 63. I know what it was like pre 60's Feminist era. Equal Rights still has a long way to go for all humans. And that is what its about - Equal Rights.

Are there agressive females? Yes. As well as agressive men.



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 03:54 PM
link   
The true test of feminism is an appalling one. That is does a woman unashamedly declare that her right to kill her own offspring, derived by a flawed court decision that in fact nullified the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution, is the price she is willing to pay to enjoy the benefits of the work force?

Is it a quid pro quo for her? Does she agree that her right to a legal abortion is her ticket to a career? Is she proud of that position without regret? Then you have a real feminist. The price we have paid is 45 million dead Americans. 17 million black babies by the way. They're only 11% of the population but 38% of abortions!

Margaret Sanger would be proud of that!



new topics

top topics



 
13
<< 3  4  5    7  8 >>

log in

join