The god Paradox And The Choice Offered To You

reply to post by jmdewey60

What my cousin likes to say, mainly in trying to persuade me to stop writing on this forum, is that some are just not called and forget about them.

That's very nice.

There's another theory which I believe (and which this thread points to): we are all eternal beings playing games. There are no heaven or hell, only what we make them to be.

I wonder if this concept is more scary to many people than a simple concept of heaven and hell.

People generally are frightened of no morality, no end, or just simply nothing.

reply to post by badmedia

The truth is, you are god. Your soul is an individual consciousness of the father. All are connected and so forth. As it is impossible for you to not exist, then what happens is that you are absorbed by the father. You go back to where you came from. So you do not exactly "die", but "you" as an individual dies.

That is another possibility.

However, I can argue the same thing about individuality as for each of us to exist at any time.

Your gain of individuality = birth
Your loss of individuality = death

Same argument still stands.

What if we are ALL eternal beings? Infinite numbers of souls? Playing games forever and ever and ever?

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
That is another possibility.

However, I can argue the same thing about individuality as for each of us to exist at any time.

Your gain of individuality = birth
Your loss of individuality = death

Same argument still stands.

Well, as Jesus would say there are 2 births. 1 birth is the birth of the flesh. That is from your biological parents. The other birth is the birth of the soul, and that is a birth of the father.

Do you experience time? Yes. So your individuality has a beginning, and it has an end. All things of the father will eventually return. It has a beginning and an end. This is the son perspective. The father knows all, and in the father perspective there is no time. There is no change, all is known. The only way to experience time, change and reality is to have a limited perspective. That is the son, aka you, your individuality, your soul and so forth.

When we return and the path we take on the journey back is certainly open. Could very well be that when we die, that is it we just go back to the father. But as all possibilities exist and so forth, then there also must be a path that leads to a better experience, world and so forth. It doesn't have to end at the death of the flesh.

What if we are ALL eternal beings? Infinite numbers of souls? Playing games forever and ever and ever?

We are, but rather than saying infinite number of souls, I would rather say infinite number of experiences. And we do have an infinite amount of souls as well, as we are in the end all the same being and all the father. But there is a perspective change there you see?

I mean even while I can say as much as can in the above, the possibilities and such are absolutely endless. I can only give an outline and general understanding of things. The combination's and possibilities within that outline and general understanding are endless.

Really, it's just a matter of perspective always.

reply to post by badmedia


Where was Adam before God created him, WHAT was Adam before God blew the spirit of life into him?, where did Adam go when he died?

God said to Adam: if you eat of the tree, you will die

Satan said: no... you won't REALLY DIE.

Do you see where this "we don't really die" concept really comes from? From the father of the lie.... Satan.

The thing is, Adam DID DIE, he did not continue to exist in any other form. God cut off Adam's "life support" which is God's spirit, or his breathe of life.

But of course Satan had to cover up his big lie, so what does he do?
That's right, he made popular the false teaching that we don't really die but continue to live in some other form. He covered up his lie quite well if you ask me.

Think this way for a moment. That your alone in the world, all alone. And no one is there, just you. How do you feel. What are you thinking. Your words are not corrupted because your original mind is in tact. You reach out for something greater. And you get answers through time and space like coincidences. Are they god or coincidence?

Obviously since there is coincidence an intelligence exists somewhere??
And when you add the factors of humanities timeline events onto that, you start to see a pattern relating to the ultimate formation of religious thoughts, ways.

And in small tribes where survival was key, they had hierarchies of task holders. and a decider. but they were not confused by millions of people and dazzled by power and fame. They had nature and their tuning to it via nature.

This is I believe God given sanctity. Peace of mind, adaption. Happiness. continuity until the stupid advanced cultures plow over and ruin in evolution of a system of greed, their habitats and hunting grounds. Money only has respect for money.

That is why God sets those who seek it over him apart into their own cliques. Its a curse to be cast out. The blessings here are only 70-ish years, not worth the time messing everything good with selfish misunderstanding.

God I think is a general dynamic frequency tieing it all together, invisible matter could as string theory points out, be the tie that binds. We being harmony reactive, like all living matter. Respond to earth created or man created sub waves or high frequency. The spirit is the compilation of it all at once. a center of infinity.

Originally posted by holywar
Where was Adam before God created him, WHAT was Adam before God blew the spirit of life into him?, where did Adam go when he died?

God said to Adam: if you eat of the tree, you will die

Satan said: no... you won't REALLY DIE.

Do you see where this "we don't really die" concept really comes from? From the father of the lie.... Satan.

The thing is, Adam DID DIE, he did not continue to exist in any other form. God cut off Adam's "life support" which is God's spirit, or his breathe of life.

But of course Satan had to cover up his big lie, so what does he do?
That's right, he made popular the false teaching that we don't really die but continue to live in some other form. He covered up his lie quite well if you ask me.

How do you know Adam died? You are looking at things in terms of the flesh. The flesh of Adam surely did die. But what was adam is that spirit of life that was blown into him. That is the father. That is your consciousness, your soul and that which observes.

Creation itself works off logic. Your body is from the dust of the earth and part of creation. It is all logical, like a machine. We get free will, choice, and the ability to observe because the father is within us. That sense of what it means to be and know that you "are", that is the father within you. That life and spirit.

Again, 2 births. One birth is of the flesh, and it will surely die. The other birth is of the soul, of the father, and only the father can "kill" that. But as it is of the father, then it will return to the father.

It doesn't really matter at all to me what happens after physical death. If that is "the end", then so be it. I can easily see where there is more, and why their would be more. Of course in order to live in a society that isn't evil, then one must change their evil ways and be good. If you steal, then you can not expect to live in a society that has theft. Your very presence would change the existence.

And in this manner, right and wrong are the same no matter what happens after physical death.

I'm not sure where you get this big lie cover up thing from. If anything, they would want you to believe this was it so that you would fear for your life and try to "save" yourself. You already ate from the fruit, what is the point and need of "lieing" now? If you were already slated to die upon eating the fruit, then what exactly would it matter?

As far as I can tell, the game on this planet seems to be making people think they are nothing but the flesh. And then putting that flesh into danger, or presenting fear to make people protect their flesh. And in trying to save themselves, they walk a path of death and destruction, becoming the evil in the world and doing things contrary to what is needed to a peaceful society. Because again, how can we will in a world without wars, people killing and so forth when people act in simply a manner which feeds that individuals flesh needs and so forth? When you know that you are not the flesh and so forth, then you care more about doing right or wrong, rather than doing evil things in order to protect the flesh.

reply to post by badmedia


You seem to be more of a Hindu or Buddhist than a Christian. Have you read Bagavita Gita?

reply to post by Deaf Alien


I'm not a christian. Christianity is the anti-Christ religion mostly. Paul is a fraud. I don't belong to any religion. I believe what they express is what is important, not the who's, when's and where's. I had a vision and was given understanding by the father. I was shown the path and the true reality of things basically. I didn't find the bible until months later, and then when I read Jesus I hear basically everything I've learned in him. I do not see "Jesus", but I see the father I know in him and an example of what I learned.

Here are 2 posts that explain the path, how, why and so forth. As well as the nature of the universe and so forth. More detailed than what I gave you above.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Of course my experience is no good for you or anyone else. I could be making it up, so you certainly shouldn't take my word for it. Everyone needs to have their own vision IMO, and shouldn't settle for anything less than that.



[edit on 1-6-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia



The Bible is my final authority on this issue, I can quote text after text to show what the Bible says about it. Among the texts I've already cited previously, this one seems to sum it up for me nicely:

Psalm 146:4 (King James Version)

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.


Badmedia, I do agree with you that when we die, the spirit of life, "Gods breath" returns to him. But that is his force, his power, his "electricity", it's not some kind of conscience entity. Think of it as an electrical appliance, it does not work unless it gets some source of electricity. Once the appliance is unplugged, it does not work.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by holywar]

reply to post by holywar

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The 2nd birth is described in John 14. On that day you will know this.

John 14

20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

It is followed by the holy spirit, who teaches. But yet the bible is the authority?

21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

If you experience these things, then you will know what I speak of. You wouldn't need the bible as the "authority". The father is the only authority. The father that is within you.

Have you noticed sins are sins against god? Why? Because he is within all those other people. When you sin against a person, you sin against god.

Matthew 7

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Scribes write scripture.

May I ask what you think a soul is? As well as if there is a god, and a word of god why you would settle for a book instead of seeking out the real thing? What was the word those who wrote the scripture was said to have heard? Why settle for less than that, and deny it of others?

reply to post by badmedia


Hey Badmedia, I'm at work today, so I'll respond in more detail later,

but I just wanted to point out why I say the Bible is my final authority when it comes to what I believe....

2 Peter 1:20-21 (New International Version)

20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.


2 Timothy 3:16 (King James Version)

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness


Romans 15:4 (New International Version)

4For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.


1Corinthians 1:21,25 (NIV)

21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.


1 Timothy 6:20 (New International Version)

20Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge,

reply to post by Deaf Alien

There's another theory which I believe (and which this thread points to): we are all eternal beings playing games. There are no heaven or hell, only what we make them to be.

What if the real scary thought is that we are powerless and are just being carried away with the tide. Being in a game gives you power to control your environment.
I used to have a little store and when it started out, it was a one person job. I would say something like, "You are the manager so you have a certain amount of control of your environment and can make it what you want, somewhat."
This was my argument for taking a low paying job, that they could get some personal satisfaction as partial compensation.
If you can pretend that you have a choice about how your life works out or your afterlife will be somehow affected by what you do in this one, you could feel better about having a crumby life.
That is just human psychology and does not probe the mind of God.


[edit on 2-6-2009 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by holywar


1. We aren't talking about prophecy scripture here.

2. Paul is a fraud.

3. I have little interest in someone who wants to post things as being authority, rather than understanding.

4. I notice you never quoted Jesus. I guess you take Paul over Jesus? I quoted Matthew 7 which says directly that the scripture isn't the authority, straight from the words of Jesus. And you quote Paul in response as a way of telling me I'm wrong. Nothing new there.

Sorry, while you may not believe me, and that is perfectly ok, I know the father and I know how and what the father gives. I find it funny that a religion based on a personal relationship with god doesn't include or actually allow such a relationship. If you did have such a relationship, then you wouldn't be thinking the bible is the authority, even though your bible says otherwise in the words of Jesus.





[edit on 2-6-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


well, I do have interest in YOU! but I have little interest in your disrespect for God's word THE BIBLE.

Jesus said in prayer to his Father:

John 17:17 (NIV)

17) Sanctify them by the truth; YOUR WORD IS TRUTH. (caps mine of course)

Everything found in the written Word of God, the Bible, IS TRUTH!
Including Paul's writings. There are two things that allow me to have a very personal relationship with my creator: HIS word the Bible and Creation.

I might start a thread on the "being born again" subject.

reply to post by holywar


I know the father and never once did he mention Jesus, the bible or any religion. In fact, quite the opposite.

I was shown that it is not the idols, the messengers, the symbols or whatever that matter ever. It's the understanding and truth they give that is important.

The father showed me the path and gave me understanding. I can show you exactly how the universe and things work, as that is what the father gives. There is a logical explanation that can be understood for what Jesus did and shows.

Why would you want to limit the father as to only being able to talk to people through a book? The word of god? No way. If we assume the bible is divinely inspired, then the word of god is the word that those people heard.

The verse you are talking about is in regards to truth. Anywhere you find wisdom and truth being expressed and shown, then that is a sign of the father. I do not know Jesus, I only know the father. When I read Jesus I hear the father within him. I hear and see the understanding of the father in the words and example of Jesus. That is how I know Jesus is the real deal.

When I read Paul, I see an example of things I was shown not too do. Do not make an authority of myself I am shown. It's the understanding that matters, not the idol/messenger. It is not the way. And funny enough Jesus says these things as well. But what do I see in Paul? I see someone who embraces and praises the idol, rather than the understanding. I see someone who sets himself up as an authority(self claimed apostle), and then goes about setting up the authority of men in the church. Completely opposite of what the father showed me, and completely opposite of what Jesus said.

Jesus says you must seek. Did you seek, or did you accept what has been handed to you? If you simply accept, then you will not understand. If you do not understand, then you will not be able to tell Paul is a fraud.

Take care that you are not decieved. Sound familiar? How in the world can you expect to not be decieved if you lack understanding and have just accepted things? Might as well play the lottery with them odds.

If a personal relationship with the father consists of having a book, then you have settled for wooden nickels. Why would you accept that over the actual word of god? Do you think the father is incapable of speaking to you? Do you think the father is reduced to only being able to give as this world does? Do you realize what you imply when you limit the father and such to these things?

What do you think it means they enter not and do not allow others to enter? They couldn't see/read the bible?

The only true church is one that is within you. It is present on both heaven and earth, and is built out of what is considered rich in the eyes of god, knowledge and wisdom. What knowledge and wisdom you gain here and lose here, will be gained and lost in heaven. As it is within you and not physical, no man can touch it. As it is built upon wisdom and understanding, it is built on the strongest rock.

If you just accept what the world gives you, then you will continue to not understand what is being said, and you will continue to walk on in darkness.

The entire foundation of your understanding is off, it's backwards and it's satanic. Who's world is this? What is said to happen to those who truly believe? So how in the world is it that those who are supposed to be killed and hated until the end get to be the ones who are the most powerful in the world? Come on, how is it not clear?

If Jesus is the truth, the way and the light - why would you need to know and understand Jesus through Paul? Jesus isn't clear enough on his own? We need a 2nd shepherd to gain proper understanding, and not the holy spirit? A 2nd shepherd who is warned about.

The prince of this world cometh Jesus says, and he has nothing for Jesus in him. And then comes along Paul, who makes up nearly half the NT, quotes Jesus a single time, says things contrary, appeals to politicans and writes a book towards justifying the political powers of the time and so on. Seriously, how much longer will you keep accepting the wicked?




[edit on 2-6-2009 by badmedia]

Jesus comes to fulfill the law and bring understanding. And rather than take that understanding and apply it to our lives, we just want to sit around and praise the idol. And that is what Paul teaches.

This is like if I give you a glass of milk, rather than licking the milk the glass brought to you, you sit around licking and praising the glass that brought you the milk. We would put people in a "special" school if they did such a thing, but this is exactly what people do with Jesus.

He is elevated as to be everything you are not. That you are incapable of such things yourself or even close to it. Despite the fact that Jesus himself says all that he does, you can do and even greater. Why? Because Paul tells you so.

If you truly come to understand Jesus, then you will see that everything he dealt with is present in the world today. You will see the masses of the people who follow these things, along with the traditions of men. You will see that everything Jesus says of himself is true of you.

Praise and worship those idols all you want. I will have nothing to do with it, and if you think you can change that then you are nuts. If you hope to persuade me, then you will have to show me understanding. And good luck with that.

Proverbs 8

8All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.

9They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.

12I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.

13The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

14Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.

15By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.

16By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.

17I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

18Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.

19My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

20I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

21That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.

So all this is reduced down to getting a bible and a preacher? Acceptance rather than understanding? Poor in spirit rather than rich in spirit? No thanks. Poor in spirit may be blessed because they haven't recieved the truth yet, but it's still not something to really strive for.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


why do you keep quoting scripture... is the Bible where you're getting your wisdom from?

Originally posted by holywar
why do you keep quoting scripture... is the Bible where you're getting your wisdom from?

No, but what I quoted is true. You accept it as authority, so I did it for your benefit. Plus, I like the poetic wording usually, and it provides a commonality for understanding. Easier to speak to someone who speaks german in the german language.

Let me guess, I'm supposed to either accept it all, or none of it right? I'm wrong if I don't agree with all of it? If I'm going to use the bible, then I have to have the mainstream view of what is acceptable.

If you merely mean to show I'm not christian, that is fine. I openly admit it and tell people that.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia

No, but what I quoted is true. You accept it as authority, so I did it for your benefit. Plus, I like the poetic wording usually, and it provides a commonality for understanding. Easier to speak to someone who speaks german in the german language.

oh, ok... cool

Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee. And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.
And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle. And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.
But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp. And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp.
And one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them. And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!

Here is a list being made up of all the people who were supposed to show up to be in front of God and Moses in order to receive some of Moses' spirit of prophecy. Two of them stayed home but started prophesying, anyway. People were outraged at the effrontery of it but Moses says to let it be.
I think it is funny and it made me laugh. How dare you prophesy when you did not participate in the ritual!