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The god Paradox And The Choice Offered To You

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posted on May, 30 2009 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by contemplator
 


We all change as we grow, and you can't always get what you want. If you look deep within you, it's only your pride, or your fear of being controlled, causing you to think this way. Or, maybe you're just not invited!




posted on May, 30 2009 @ 09:05 PM
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The argument is actually with Christians. Most of the churches today.

The Bible never specifically said that some people will go to hell.

Just like it never said that homosexuality is a sin.

Basically, we're arguing with their interpretations or even their feelings.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


actually, JW's have been faced with that CHOICE already, and still do.

SEE HERE

AND HERE

right now in Korea, there are hundreds of Witnesses in jail for refusing military service, many are tortured, and it was informed during my last assembly that 5 of our korean brothers have been killed.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 09:11 PM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


semantics. A raging pit of fire that lasts for eternity is pretty close to hell, imho. And i recall reading the verse saying homosexuality is something you shouldn't do.
We agree that religion today is based on people's interepretations too much, instead of on a real relationship with God.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by contemplator
I don't want to go to heaven whatsoever. The people I admire and respect the most are like me on their way to hell. I would rather be with them or be nowhere.


GREAT, I don't want to go to heaven either, would you like to know more about the prospect of living forever right here on our precious planet earth? It's the awesome hope God gives in the Bible.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by holywar
 


No closed caption on those videos. But I think I understand the general idea. I'll respond later. If you don't mind, make a summary.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by heyo
 




semantics. A raging pit of fire that lasts for eternity is pretty close to hell, imho.


Well, it's still not a choice.



And i recall reading the verse saying homosexuality is something you shouldn't do.


Which verse? It has been covered 1000 times. The Bible is NOT against homosexuality.



We agree that religion today is based on people's interepretations too much, instead of on a real relationship with God.


That's the only thing here I have agreed with. It's between us and God, no interpretations, no hell, no sufferings, no doubts, etc etc.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by holywar
 

The draft boards are being set up using recruiting offices. Not sure but I have a feeling they will be drafting women into the military too.
Plenty of opportunity for persecution coming up real soon.
I think the next war will be mass killing fields beyond imagination.
It might be better in prison.
War stinks and it is always for Imperial expansion and nothing good.
God does not want us feeding the greed of the war pigs.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 



Which verse? It has been covered 1000 times. The Bible is NOT against homosexuality.


this is way off topic... sorry, but here are a couple of texts just to answer your question:

Romans 1:24-27

1Timothy 1:9-11



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 

That's the only thing here I have agreed with. It's between us and God, no interpretations, no hell, no sufferings, no doubts, etc etc.
I think people flatter themselves too much.
What if God did not want a relationship with you.
Did that ever occur to you as even a possibility?
I just quoted From Joshua, where the Israelites were asked if they wanted to go to worshiping the gods of the Chaldeans or the Egyptians or the Amorites. When they said they will serve the Lord, God said, "Excuse me, but you know you are too filthy, and that I do not want you over at my house. Just do not worship the other gods and don't call me, I'll call you"
How do you imagine you deserve for God to snuggle up to you?
Why are you so great? People who imagine they are in some wonderful relationship are delusional. I was talking with someone today who was describing a two way conversation she had with God. I had to imagine her brain had slipped a cog.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 09:49 PM
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reply to post by holywar
 




this is way off topic... sorry, but here are a couple of texts just to answer your question:


No, it's not off topic. I have presented a point that the Bible can be interpreted incorrectly. Many Christians have interpreted the Bible incorrectly. No one, I repeat, NO ONE, goes to hell for all eternity.

Basically the debate here is with the interpretations.

As for those verses, that have been covered many times on ATS (and on BTS).



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 




What if God did not want a relationship with you. Did that ever occur to you as even a possibility?


I do not understand? You mean that it's a possibility that God created YOU and never wanted a relationship with you?

Ah I see... a calvinist argument. The potter and the clay thing? Well, good luck with that argument.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



jmdewey, you crack me up!



I think people flatter themselves too much.
What if God did not want a relationship with you.


"Draw near to God and He will draw near to you"- James 4:8

sounds like a warm invitation to me



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 



No one, I repeat, NO ONE, goes to hell for all eternity.


agreed!!!



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by holywar
reply to post by Deaf Alien
 



No one, I repeat, NO ONE, goes to hell for all eternity.


agreed!!!


Thank you.


Basically what we have here is interpretations.

Who would want to suffer for all eternity? Is it even a choice? That's the paradox that I have never heard a good solution from most Christians.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 



yeah it is. You can go to heaven, walking with God, or go to hell, not walking with him. That is a choice, it's just one you don't like, cause you need to be in control. You do not like that God has that power ove ryou because you shouldn't have to answer to anyone.

"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable"
Leviticus 18:18
God then goes on about how these things defile nations (homosexuality wasn't the only thing. There was incest and virgin-taking and stuff).

also see gen 19:4-13, Leviticus 18:22, 1 Timothy 1:8-10...and there are more but you get the point.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


"They (soddom and Gomorroah) and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire"
Jude :7

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preacha gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!"
Galatians 1:9

"Those who hate the Lord would cringe before him, and their punishment would last forever."
Psalm 82:15

Also read luke 16:19-26. Apparently, you an see heaven from hell, but none can cross either way.



[edit on 30-5-2009 by heyo]



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by heyo
 




yeah it is. You can go to heaven, walking with God, or go to hell, not walking with him. That is a choice, it's just one you don't like, cause you need to be in control. You do not like that God has that power ove ryou because you shouldn't have to answer to anyone.


Ok, I am assuming that you believe that people who chose to not believe in God will suffer for all eternity in hell.

Let's take my example about Hitler.

Hitler told you that you will suffer many years. They will torture you for many years if you "chose" not to sevre him. You will die at any time.

Or you will be rewarded greatly and live a great life if you chose to serve him.

Your will to live will persuade you to choose the latter. Not much of a choice, right?

Here' the Calvinist argument:

You were born a Jew. You can't help it, right? Hitler decided that all Jews were undesirables and that they deserve torture and death. Where is the choice?



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by heyo
 




"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable" Leviticus 18:18 God then goes on about how these things defile nations (homosexuality wasn't the only thing. There was incest and virgin-taking and stuff). also see gen 19:4-13, Leviticus 18:22, 1 Timothy 1:8-10...and there are more but you get the point.


Those verses speak of ritual worship. That's another subject in many threads. Nothing to do with homosexuality. Ritual worship is an abomination, not the sexual act.



posted on May, 30 2009 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


Weird. Seems pretty straightforward to me. I think you're guessing cause the Timothy one is clear. I think you are doing the same things christians do...manipulate the verse to fit their viewpoint. That's sucha stretch, imo.
Personally, not judging takes the cake for me so if you wanna be gay go ahead, just don't say the bible says it's okay.

"We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law, with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and the unruly, the godless and the sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murders, the unchaste, homosexuals, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching" 1 Timothy 1:8-10

I mean, come on.



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