Physical Death Predetermined?

I don't know if that is the right category to post this thread. I think it is somehow related.

Let's start with a short overview, then my question to all of you.
We on earth have the ability to create our reality to a large extent within our destiny path.
That's what most people would refer to as our free will.
Each of us has certain lessons to learn, to evolve and advance.

My question:
Do we have an influence on the timing of our physical death or is it predetermined?

This comes straight down to freewill versus destiny, there is truly no way to know.

Even if a person decided to "disprove" destiny by committing suicide it could still be argued by proponents of predetermination that it was ordained to happen. Some would argue he had the choice others would argue there is no proving or disproving etc etc, in circles they go.

An interesting point you have (purposed or not) in stating "physical" death, but could that non-physical part of us even die? Or exist with a predetermined mortal existence without a predetermined one inbetween mortal lives?

I don't think someone has the answer but here is my guess.

I think we influence it because like you said, we come to learn by knowledge and experience.

That means that one has to have challenges in life and overcome them.
That's when you learn by experience.

But some people choose the easy way and kill themselves.

I don't think suicide is a destiny for anyone since we always come to learn.

That's why I think we have a big influenece with our physical death.

reply to post by eNumbra

but could that non-physical part of us even die?

If you mean our spirit/energy then I don't think so.

But supposedly we have the choice of not existing anymore.

Your energy is then used to create another spirit since nothing is wasted in the universe.

Well, first of all I believe there can only be a physical death. The spirit lives forever according to my personal belief.

I agree, that if you decide to end your life through suicide you interrupt your evolution and interfere with your destiny path.

However, with predetermined death I mean death beyond our will.

As Forrest Gump would so wisely say "I think its a little of both."

Originally posted by danielsil18
reply to post by eNumbra

 

but could that non-physical part of us even die?

If you mean our spirit/energy then I don't think so.

But supposedly we have the choice of not existing anymore.

Your energy is then used to create another spirit since nothing is wasted in the universe.

I wouldn't have thought so. I let my stream of consciousness go in that post.

I also agree partly here in your first post.

I don't think anything can be predetermined in our lives however; even if there is destiny, if we can sidestep it with suicide, then how was it destiny?

[edit on 5/29/2009 by eNumbra]

Related or not, I am not sure. I believe that when we stop learning and growing we begin dieing...at least spiritually.

Though this doesn't make sense with what I just said, I want to learn and grow until the day I die. A paradox.

reply to post by eNumbra

I don't think anything can be predetermined in our lives however; even if there is destiny, if we can sidestep it with suicide, then how was it destiny?

I don't think destiny is something that is going to happen.

I think it's something that's supposed to happen.

You have the free will to choose the normal way or hard way to that destiny.

But you also have the choice getting out the easy way.

I put an example:

A woman came to learn that she can live without a husband, to learn how to live independently.

She gets married since that's normal. But then her husband starts to hit her.

She has the free will to learn the normal way or hard way.

The normal way is for her to divorce her husband and learn that she can live by herself.

The hard way is if she gets married to another man, but the same thing will happen to her until she gives up the idea that she can't live without a husband.

Either way she will learn to live without a husband.

That's an example.

It's kind of confusing.

reply to post by danielsil18


Actually it made perfect sense. Star for you.

reply to post by thegreatobserver

However, with predetermined death I mean death beyond our will.

I'm not sure about that.

I think our destiny help us go to the direction we are supposed to go.

Destiny takes us to the lessons we have to learn.

So if our destiny is to die then what have we learned.

Unless we come for Serve To Others and you change something with your death.

Maybe it's both destiny and free will.

reply to post by eNumbra


I'm glad you understood my post

I thought it would confuse everyone.

I just wanted to add something to the example:

Destiny was what kept her marrying bad men.

That's because she wouldn't learn her lesson if she married a perfect husband.

So destiny would be what puts us in the situation to learn our lessons, and exercise the knowledge we learned in those lessons. We have the freewill to learn and be those lessons, or we can refuse. Which would likely replay that scenario much like a skipping record.

eg: A woman getting into repeated abusive relationships until she learns how to avoid them.

[edit on 5/29/2009 by eNumbra]

Okay people...
First of all.. to present the following points which I would like to make, there is a lot of conditioning that is to be removed. Because all these points would make sense only if one is looking at it in the right perspective of ABSOLUTE NEUTRALITY.

Point 1.
This whole world is an Energy
Point 2.
An individual in this world is another Energy ( individual soul) which is part of the greater unity ( the Grand Energy ). ( here the individual soul/ energy can be considered as a subset of the larger set / grand energy field)
Point 3.
This Greater Energy expresses itself through its individual subsets ( individual souls) E.G. Nature expresses itself through all the creatures forming its subset
Point 4.
From the perspective of Energy, All living things are not different from non living things, and hence can be connected to by an living individual
www.youtube.com...
Follow the above Video series FULLY to see the proof of a living being connecting with another living being through the common energy field shared by both the entities.
Point 5.
This Energy in its entire grandeur cannot be experienced / studied fully through physical instruments involved, which makes use of the physical senses in the human body. ie. eyes, ears, nose, tongue, touch. Simply because this energy is beyond the senses. It is like asking an individual website to express the grandeur of teh internet through its limited connections/channels accessible through it in the server. one could of course add tools, modify the website to have increased accessibility to all the different features in the internet. But it takes time and effort.
So.. the point here was .. physical sciences in its nature is different.
Point 6.
Quantum effects are influenced by Consciousness of the observer/scientist studying it. Proof: Debroglie principle, and the following video from What the bleep do we know movie :
www.youtube.com...
Follow the full interview to realise the effects of consciousness upon quantum effects, and to understand a bit more about this grand Energy field.
Point 7.
To study the grand Energy field, you need instruments of Consciousness to apply scientific method to it. The only natural instruments of consciousness available for humans is the awareness within of one's self. This awareness is to be intensified, and utilised fully to analyze completely about this world. All the esoteric traditions in teh East like Buddhist Schools, Hindu Monasteries, Zen Monasteries try to teach the students how they can utilise awareness to realise the true nature of this world or the Grand energy field.
Point 8.
Once you increase your awareness to the point that, you do not identify with your body, and also with the space around and beyond it ( effects of which can be measured off the brain's selected region associated identifying with the body using EMI), One can attain infinite mass, and thus travel at infinite light speed.
Point 1.
This grand energy expresses itself through cycles , within a fractal universe. reference : vedas ( I dont think anyone is capable of attacking this point, unless they have claimed to have verified vedas are incorrect BY THEMSELVES after STUDYING the vedas, again by THEMSELVES.
Point 10
This grand energy is intelligent. Not just mere physical energy in a battery sort of. But Intelligent Energy capable of creation, destruction and preservation

[edit on 29-5-2009 by skywalker_]

reply to post by eNumbra

So destiny would be what puts us in the situation to learn our lessons, and exercise the knowledge we learned in those lessons. We have the freewill to learn and be those lessons, or we can refuse. Which would likely replay that scenario much like a skipping record.

Exactly!

Destiny is the path that takes us to the lessons and we have the free will to choose everything else.

-The woman had the free will to become a doctor, tennis player, president, etc but she would still have to learn the lesson she came to learn.

Destiny doesn't make us slaves, it only guides us to our lessons.

reply to post by danielsil18


Are you referring to reincarnation?

our deaths are predetermined by " GOD" in heaven, but we choose our
own destiny, as to our beliefs, and where our souls go after death.

reply to post by truth/seeker

Are you referring to reincarnation?

Yes I am

our deaths are predetermined by " GOD" in heaven, but we choose our
own destiny, as to our beliefs, and where our souls go after death.

Maybe no one really knows, but we always find the information that help us to our journey and where we are supposed to be.

Always follow the belief and information that your heart tells you to follow.

Now that all these points have been accepted, I would like to address the question raised in the beginning of the thread. Death. As to whether it is possible to know before when physical death is written or is there free will or both or what be the nature of the truth.
Now..This Energy expresses itself through cycles. Observation of nature reveals that, Whatever that is born in the physical world, must die. Of course only living things are born as such. And along with death, comes with transformation of Energy from one form to another.

Okay. Do I die ?
depends upon the definition of "I" and "die"
if "I" is equated with John Smith, or some other name for the ego, which associates itself with the physical body, then yes, the "I" dies along with the physical body.
if "I" is equated with the Grand Energy, then death of the physical body doesn't translate to death of the Grand Energy, simply because Grand Energy JUST IS, and has ALWAYS BEEN there.

Now, an individual soul inhabits the physical body. What is the definition of death ? Is it when the heart stops beating ? Is it when the body stops moving ? The exact definition of death is when the soul leaves the body. However esoteric it seems, in the science of energy preserved in the heritage of esoteric sciences carefully guarded in Tibetan, hindu, Zen monasteries, this is the definition which they would give to Death.

Now .. do we know the moment of death ? Check out this video to get some jaw dropping facts :
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

Think in the second video, the presenter, says that each of us has a soul, which is aware of everything that is to happen in this life time and the future lifetimes. So yes. We are capable of knowing when we are to die, provided we are trained in the required knowledge.

Here is something that will blow your mind with a little deep thought into the subject. In the bible,(even though some might not consider it accurate I'm citing it as a history book) it states several times of people living to 400, 500, and beyond years of age, such as Noah being around 500 when he built the ark. History teaches us that people are living longer now than ever before, with ancient people living 30-60 years of age normally.
Maybe we die at the age we do now, because the powers to be and science teaches us from an early age that people live to be 60-90. Or better yet, who's to say that we only die because we accept it as an inevitability? Maybe if we were taught and truly believed we would never die, we wouldn't?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Do we have an influence on the timing of our physical death or is it predetermined?

Life is the expression of creation. From where we are there is no such thing as predetermined. The equations of this existence change all the time from where we stand. However, there is a place that is impossible, I repeat impossible, to reach that has the finished equations and information of this existence, which includes the time of all of our deaths. Lets say a psychic decides to foretell the future. The information that psychic channels comes from very powerful sources, that include huge amounts of current information, the current state of the universe, information which can predict the future. However, there is a catch. Once that information is known by a human reality tunnel it can be changed by that human. This is because the human contains more information in it than anything else on earth. So really, the only things that are predetermined are things that never reach human ears. Everything that is known, can be changed. Everything that is not known, cannot. That which is known is never predetermined, that which is never known, is not predetermined.

So one can say, everything IS predetermined, because there is a place where everything is known.

However, one can also say, nothing is predetermined, because once it becomes known to use, we can change it.

This is because the place where everything is known, exists in nothing. It exists, in nothingness. It is nowhere, and "nowhen". Information that is known by us, is not from this void. It cannot be, because by that time it is somewhere, and if it it somewhere it is part of the expression of creation. Which is not the final equation, but the expression.

the only time information leaks out from this place of nowhere, is when it is being expressed. By that time, nothing can change it, because it is an immediate happening. and then, before you know it, it is in the past. Known by us, but written in stone.



[edit on 30-5-2009 by stevedel0]