Wowza, excellent replies you guys....Thanks a bunch.

I have to admit, there is much more than just 9/11 driving me here. It's kind of like once you realize that this goes way beyond 9/11, and into the darkest corners of the elite- it sort of all piles up in me, including 9/11 and out comes a thread like this. And in that rage and frustration I can forget that everyone does have a right to their own opinion.

But what is worse is when you are attempting to talk about 9/11 with someone who is clueless about all the work that has been done by guys like Craig Ranke, Domenick, SPreston, Rob Balsamo, Richard Gage, Steven Jones, and even guys like my friend Phil Jayhan at letsrollforums.com, Dave Von Kleist, and Dylan Avery.

These kinds of people, who won't research jack, sit there and call us "nuts," "wackos," "unpatriotic," etc, etc. And Sean Hannity has got to be one of the worst at this. I fume every time I hear him say stuff like that. Glenn Beck used to do the same thing, although he appears to be wisening up a bit lately.

My answer to people like that is how can thousands of respected professionals, veterans, architects, engineers, pilots and so many more all be questioning the official story if there really was nothing to all this research that has been done?? They are all "nuts" and "unpatriotic" too???

BS!

Ace, I really do appreciate you helping to bring me back to center on this. It helps me maintain, when really, I just want to lose it.

posted by esdad71

Ar far as Preston, rock on bud. Keep up the good work

posted by esdad71

Ar far as Swampfox, rock on bud. Keep up the good work for our country

[edit on 30-5-2009 by esdad71]

[edit on 30-5-2009 by esdad71]

What? You took away my accolades just like that?

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Fine, I will try this again. True American, do you have anything to contribute other than a personal attack? Can you rebuke anything that I have posted?

Calling those who feel that terrorist attacked us on 9/11 as unpatriotic is unpatriotic in its own sense. In the days following 9/11, our country came together as a whole...black, white, Christian, Muslim, all to denounce that had occurred on that day. Remember how hard it was to but a flag? Anyone? It was not a false sense of patriotic fare, it was a wake up call to America that we, as well as many other nations, are vulnerable.

Those who feel that there country perpetrated 9/11 are the ones, by definition, that are unpatriotic because, as the definition states, they do not love their country but wish to promote it as an evil entity, bring it down and make others hate it as much as they do.

So, in conclusion, this OP did nothing but show the true non patriotic stance of those who choose to still believe that Bush pushed a button and controlled the jets that hit the towers(this is not a literal statement folks)

Well, nice to see the mods are on top of THEIR game.

I suppose having the tables turned on one's self does tend to upset, doesn't it?

Well too damn bad. I am sick of being labeled unpatriotic because I can see through the official story lies. Not through blind devotion to the government line, but through careful attention and years of reading and contemplation about the subject. If I was alone in this, I'd be more apt to shut my trap. But clearly I am not. And I object to being called a troll, much less king of the 9/11 trolls at ATS. I feel I have done my part to contribute here at ATS, across many subjects, not just 9/11. In fact, I have contributed the LEAST to the 9/11 forum here out of all my threads.

Ok, self-preservation activated: must put esdad on ignore.

Im starting to see deeper matters. i mean theres no reason not to care about everything we see in life on a deep spiritual need to be with another in experiences of life. It is a matter of the times they were raised, what kind of house they grew up in and their modern state now. Many are ex-military or police, or they are just ver ystubborn or time consumed to even care. Which as we espouse is where the people perceivably we are discussing, want everyone so they can do what an equal many others believe they are doing.
deliberate swindles.

then you have the people who just follow the winner, which means they follow the money. Now while many in that arena know well where they stand in life, and many hate it, they also love it. And in that mindset just dont want the pain of seeing constantly where they feel they must stay because of a past limmeny snickets of events leading to there innocuous meeting of a dark world of well connected international whatevers.

i define unpatriotic as a word that means unwilling to do the right thing in the right measure. Or ignorance to achieve such failure. Patriotism is a daily activity. and cannot be defined as a nuance.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Well, nice to see the mods are on top of THEIR game.

I suppose having the tables turned on one's self does tend to upset, doesn't it?

Well too damn bad. I am sick of being labeled unpatriotic because I can see through the official story lies. Not through blind devotion to the government line, but through careful attention and years of reading and contemplation about the subject. If I was alone in this, I'd be more apt to shut my trap. But clearly I am not. And I object to being called a troll, much less king of the 9/11 trolls at ATS. I feel I have done my part to contribute here at ATS, across many subjects, not just 9/11. In fact, I have contributed the LEAST to the 9/11 forum here out of all my threads.

Ok, self-preservation activated: must put esdad on ignore.

Yes, the mods are on top of their game to keep these forums clean. I apologized to them for what I wrote in the post but that I still have conviction in what I expressed however it should have been just to you.

Sorry if you are tired of being labeled unpatriotic but in what you state, by definition, you are. You can create an opinion but not sway a fact or decide you have a different meaning to a word or phrase if it is fact.

No tables were turned either, i just decided to defend myself and this is not the correct forum. Putting someone with opposite views then you on ignore further exemplifies close mindedness. I have been attacked, battered, gang attacked by multiple posters but I do not put them on ignore. Even those you do not agree with will sometimes bring to light something you never recognized. It is part of learning. You may not like you teacher in school but 99% of the time they were right.

I am in this post because I do not believe the official story, but believe what I saw, what relatives and friends saw that day and what I have researched and read. Please stop telling me I love my government blindly...I love my country.

trust me, if the day came when someone, anyone, came forward and said I have a blasting cap or I have audio or video of anything that was not circumstantial, I would then have to admit defeat and then pursue other angles against those who did pull this off.

The problem is that 9/11 truth has stalled because there is NO new evidence. Trust me when I say if there was ANYTHING that could implicate the government, the Obama administration would release it along with all the other documents they have.

I am a patriot because I love my country and feel blessed to wake up each day and not live in Afghanistan, Lebanon or Venezuela where i have no rights...especially to post my views in a forum such as this.

Star, Flag ... my favorite post in my brief ATS history ....

Its gonna be tough to turn the tables on the brainwashing machine and get the idea thru to people that if they do NOT take another look at 911 then THEY are the ones who are UNPATRIOTIC.

What we need are ATS talking heads on TV that call people who don't investigate 911 "crackpots" and "loons"

Then we can get operatives to infiltrate the "Ignorance" movement and make posts on blogs that make sense and lead in the right direction so that they get confused...start to question ... and finally see thru the media smokescreen.

I truly admire the OPs sentiment and passion here. Him speak truth.

Also, what I find humorous, is I do NOT believe the official story but I still am outcast but the Truthers and others...

You see, I feel that we blew that plane out of the sky in Pennsylvania. The reason that the 9/11 movement is so large, is to keep those who are investigating away from the truth in Shanksville. There was no stand down order and the timeline proves it. The Air Force had ample time to find, track and shoot down 93. This is a Classic case of deflection. With 93 they had "roll on" and then a quick movie and then...nothing to see here...move along...and everyone attacked WTC 7. This is a conspiracy folks.

Does this make me semi patriotic in the eyes of those who do not believe anything of the original story?

Also, lets look at what ignorance is since the word is tossed around so often.

Ignorance is the state in which a person lacks knowledge, is unaware of something or chooses to subjectively ignore information. This should not be confused with being unintelligent, as one's level of intelligence and level of education or general awareness are not the same. The word "Ignorant" is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware. The term may be used specifically (e.g. "One can be an expert in math, and totally ignorant of history.") or generally (e.g. "an ignorant person.") -- although the second use is used less as a descriptive and more as an imprecise personal insult.

Ignorance is not on par with intelligence. It means, as it states, to be unaware. Even my avatar profile shows I am aware..I am quite aware of my surroundings as well as how the government works...secret testing, secret wars and torture..they were all around in history before the CIA folks.

So, put down the laptops, get off Google video and read a book....


[edit on 30-5-2009 by esdad71]

Originally posted by esdad71
9/11 Truth Movement - Conjecture, Opinion and altered videos.

I'm calling straight up BS on this. I wanna see these altered videos right now. And I want proof that they've been altered by the 9/11 truth movement and not just your opinion.

Originally posted by esdad71
A true Lack of evidence regarding explosives

Again I'm calling BS. There are 3 main types of evidence that can be used in a court of law: physical, media (audio/photo/video), and witness testimony.

Here's the photo/video aspect of an example of explosives used on 9/11:



Then there's the hundreds of witness testimony where they saw, heard and felt the explosions and the flashes associated with those explosions. The witnesses included fire, police, news reporters, and WTC survivors.

Now just based on that alone is proof enough. Courts have convicted people for murder without a physical murder weapon or a body, so the physical part of evidence isn't necessarily needed.

However, it's been shown more than once in a lab and verified by more than one scientist that an incendiary chemical has been found in the WTC dust, and that would fill the physical evidence part as well.

Now, without finding the actual, physical devices, I don't know how much more proof of explosives you really need. A part of me thinks that even if a few devices were found, you would still make up some excuse to explain them away so that you wouldn't have to subscribe to the 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Originally posted by esdad71
A small percentage of a large majority follow these revelations who include FD, PD and scientists as well as other architectural professionals.

Debunkers keep saying that, but you have no proof to back up that claim. 9/11 truth movement, however does have hundreds of architects, engineers, scientists, physicists, fire and police officials as well as government officials from the U.S. and abroad, not to mention a good percentage of 9/11 families that support 9/11 truth and those list of names are open to the public. Until you produce a list of names from the professions you described that far surpass the names that support the 9/11 truth movement, your statement is of a biased opinion only.


[edit on 30-5-2009 by _BoneZ_]

Originally posted by _BoneZ_


Calling straight up BS? Man, how about you jsut say you 'triple dog dare me'


I did not state the 9/11 truth movement altered the videos, I stated the truth movement and those who believe watch and post altered videos. Do a quick Google search for any 9/11 truth movement videos and see what you get. I you want to get all legal with me and tell me what you need as a defense, please make your opening argument a little better than this. Let me clarify further....

1. Those who believe the published truth about 9/11 are grouped into those who believe the official story.

2. Those who do not believe and offer conspiracy to the WTC collapse are Truthers or those seeking the truth.

This is guilt by association and there can only be 2 sides. Sorry.

Hundreds of witnesses perceived they heard or saw explosives that day. Some described the noises as an explosions. I have read the accounts. I have read the stories. I have watched those videos hoping to hear something that maybe could make me believe....nothing.

Also, if there is no physical evidence and you are convicted of murder, you had a PD or a crummy lawyer. Money talks and public Defenders land you in jail....

As far as those who give us the official story and those who torch paint chips as evidence of nano thermite, lets compare just a few experts from the Truth movement and a few people from NIST and the 9/11 Commision.


David Ray Griffin - theologist vs John Hall - 2005 Nobel prize winner for Physics

Steven Jones - out of work professor vs Prof Hansch 2005 Nobel prize winner in Physics

James Fetzer - philosopher vs. Jun Ye - his team just created a new form of matter with ultra cold materials.


Hmmm....this looks like the Yankees vs the Devil Rays circa 2003...Still wanna call BS?

When afraid, always counter with personal attacks, not facts....
NEWS FLASH:
Perfectly played peeps counter facts accordingly!
Not worth any more of my time here I can see.
C ya later fellow tiny insignificant peeps!


[edit on 30-5-2009 by dodadoom]