Are 9/11 Official Story Proponents Really the Unpatriotic?

reply to post by LucidDreamer85


Such a sad post. I never once advocated violence..other posters did that. I simply invited someone to come and discuss his opinions with the very people he accuses of being unpatriotic.

reply to post by LucidDreamer85

dp removed..

[edit on 1-6-2009 by Swampfox46_1999]

reply to post by OnTheFelt


Hate to break this to you, but the very FIRST instance of someone calling for the "truth" to be known was indeed Thirrey Meyssan.

reply to post by Taxi-Driver

The 911 theories were created as a scam.

Not only are you lying and being unpatriotic to our country I would like you to prove it I want you to back up your out right lies with facts and sources and links. I thought this was a debate forum not a chat site. So I am willing to “challenge you” to a debate on your statement.

Created by Showmen in attempt to exploit a niche audience. Showmen such as: Alex Jones, Chris Bollyn, Aaron Russo, Willis Carto...ect.

AllLIES

Created by Political radicals ( Many of which are anti-semetic, holocaust deniers) such as: Eric Huffschmit, Carol Valentine, Theirry Meysson, Serendipity, Rense... ect.

More LIES

Reinforced by washed out kooks of academia such as: Janet Wood, James Fetzer, Stephen Jones, Richard Gage..ect.

This is an OUT RIGHT LIE! Instead of your misinformed opinions were is your proof?

Then you have the few that are trying to make a name for themselves in this "once budding" cottage industry hoping to snatch a buck or two before the money train derails.. such as: Killtown, Craig and Aldo, Dylan Avery, Luke Radowski..ect.

More LIES! Were is your proof? this is nothing but a rant of lies.

If people cannot see beyond the rhetoric and propaganda for what this subject really is... I feel for ya.

No we feel for you, because you show you are “hurt”, and we all went though this ourselves when we learn we were betrayed by our government.

Hay, a lot of work goes into mindf*cking YouTube newbs, and whatnot..

Just don't tell me I am a sheep ect.. when I saw through this movie version of a scam-spam e-mail a LONG time ago.

Some people will believe anything, if it is packaged right... sometimes that package is the (*Gasp*) Counter-Scenario.. BWAHAHA!

That’s right let it all out, the sooner you except the “truth” then it gets easier to deal with but going into DENIL will not help you.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999

Try and answer one question for me ok, If you felt that a part of your government was involved in a treasonous act and maybe responsible for thousands of American death and the evidences was stacking up against certain members of our government wouldn’t you want these people held accountable for their actions?

You still have not answer my question!

1. Former President Bush is not now, nor has he ever been one of my heroes.

Sorry I disagree.

2. As I pointed out to you earlier, he was never once AWOL.

Those are lies.

WRONG! Again, tell that to Dan Rather for CBS, he said it and he stands by his sources and he has a multi million-dollar lawsuit still pending, Dan Rather forfeited his career for the truth. Care to prove me wrong!

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999

Except for one thing, the so-called evidence you think is stacking up...isnt evidence, nor would be admissable in court.

Now, if you have audio/video/documents that would connect people to what happened that day (other than politicians with their heads up their tushes) that would be different.

I never ask you that, answer the question I ask you earlier and stop making excuses to not answering my one question.

Originally posted by OnTheFelt

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver
The 911 theories were created as a scam.

Created by Showmen in attempt to exploit a niche audience. Showmen such as: Alex Jones, Chris Bollyn, Aaron Russo, Willis Carto...ect.

Created by Political radicals ( Many of which are anti-semetic, holocaust deniers) such as: Eric Huffschmit, Carol Valentine, Theirry Meysson, Serendipity, Rense... ect.

Reinforced by washed out kooks of academia such as: Janet Wood, James Fetzer, Stephen Jones, Richard Gage..ect.

Then you have the few that are trying to make a name for themselves in this "once budding" cottage industry hoping to snatch a buck or two before the money train derails.. such as: Killtown, Craig and Aldo, Dylan Avery, Luke Radowski..ect.


If people cannot see beyond the rhetoric and propaganda for what this subject really is... I feel for ya.

Hay, a lot of work goes into mindf*cking YouTube newbs, and whatnot..

Just don't tell me I am a sheep ect.. when I saw through this movie version of a scam-spam e-mail a LONG time ago.

Some people will believe anything, if it is packaged right... sometimes that package is the (*Gasp*) Counter-Scenario.. BWAHAHA!

THIS IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE!!!!!!!


911 truth was created by the families of the victims and first responders of 911. Stop spreading BS!

Nope, sure wasn't. Aside from the Jersey Girls.. All of the foundation of the "truth" theories spawned from:

Peter Meyer of serendipity (a long time conspiracy website)- Controlled demolition in the World Trade Towers

Theirry Meyssan ( A French radical) 2002 book - The Pentagon Missle theory, No Plane at Pentagon

Eric Hufschmid ( Holocaust denier) 2002 Pamphlet - Controlled demolition of the WTC complex

Here is a direct quote from Hufschmid:

"None of the books or movies about the Holocaust are serious; rather, they try to stimulate pity of Jews and hatred of Nazis. The Holocaust stories are attempts to manipulate, not educate.

The Jews are simply exploiting the suffering and death of their fellow Jews. The moment a Jew suffers or dies, the other Jews look for ways to exploit the situation. It reminds me of the way cockroaches immediately begin eating one another when one of them dies."

Nice... He also was selling WTC "jumper" ear rings on his site at one time. Yes the people that fell to their deaths on 911.. Great hero you guys have.

Carol Valentine (Holocaust denier) 2001 article: Remote controlled planes, No hijackers involved, Downplaying of Hani Hanjour's piloting skills, Global Hawk at Pentagon, Passports found almost intact are fake,
Flight 93 was shot down, Bin Laden video fake

Chris Bollyn (known hoaxster and anti-semite) produced early articles:
Bollyn wrote an article misconstruing the seismic data from the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, seeding the basement bombs theory, Bollyn wrote an article misinterpreting WTC 2's rising dust cloud as an explosion in Building 6, starting a hoax that would be exploited by In Plane Site,
Bollyn apparently originated the theory that crash of Flight 93 in PA was faked.

So there you have it... YOUR conspiracy theories you blindly support and WHERE they spawned

This list covers:

The Pentagon no plane.
The tower demolitions.
The demolition of the WTC including 7 World Trade.
Remote controlled planes
No Hijackers
Hani Hanjour is an unskilled pilot
93 Shot down
Oct 2001 Bin Laden video is fake
Basement bombs
Chertof nepitism
Shanksville crash scene faked

NONE of these people were victims or FAMILIES of the 9/11 attacks.
NONE of these people are qualified to substanciate their claims!!

Yet YOU believe them and their REVERSE- ENGINEERED BULLS#!+ like their feeble word is gospel.

THEN have the outright AUDACITY to call anyone that disagres with this motley crue a "Sheep" or "Shill" or even go so far as to deem people "Unpatriotic"

BWAHAHAHA! I have to laugh, not only at your gulliblity, and (lack of) research skills, but the zeal in which you parrot your propagandist's ideals. IRONY!!!!

911review.com...

www.public-action.com...

911guide.googlepages.com...

911guide.googlepages.com...

911research.wtc7.net...

www.erichufschmid.net...

Have some links.

Sometimes you just have to cut through the flamewar BS and get a strong dose of reality.








[edit on 1-6-2009 by Taxi-Driver]

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by sayiamu
Then we can get operatives to infiltrate the "Ignorance" movement and make posts on blogs that make sense and lead in the right direction so that they get confused...start to question ... and finally see thru the media smokescreen.

The "ignorance" movement. Most definitely has a ring to it!

Thanks for the props. You got the exact nature of where I am coming from on this OP probably better than I did. Thanks.

I love it.

Just so we are clear there are two groups "The Truth Movement" and the "Ignorance Movement". Awesome

I just took off all those in the "Ignorance Movement" off ignore, just for fun.

reply to post by Taxi-Driver

Several of the people you mention, I've never heard of or know anything about. As far as Eric Hufschmid, his nickname in the 9/11 truth movement is "Huff n Puff". Very few to nobody accepts his views and he's pretty much ignored.

Secondly, your post shows that not only do you not know what you're talking about, you're very unresearched. Since you wanna come up in our threads throwing your BS around, I'll issue a challenge to you that I've issued to other wanna-be debunkers and my challenge is still unanswered. Before the challenge, I want to address a couple of your points.

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver
The tower demolitions.
The demolition of the WTC including 7 World Trade.

Here's my quick answer to how 3 WTC buildings were brought down:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver
Basement bombs

There are many documented witnesses that have talked about the basement explosions and how people died or were severely injured due to those explosions. And before you say it was the jet fuel BS, there were multiple explosions over the course of many minutes. Not only will jet fuel not travel a quarter mile down and pick certain floors to ignite itself on, it's not going to ignite itself over and over and over again.

At 29:50 in the following video, you can hear a detailed witness account of these multiple explosions and how people were injured or died due to those explosions in the basement.

P.S. You can fast forward directly to 29:50 and press "play". You don't have to watch the whole video:

video.google.com...


Now, not only do we have multiple witnesses to the multiple explosions in the basement levels, we have video and photographic proof as well:

These are photographs of the lobby. Firemen said it looked like the plane hit the lobby:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8adb1d5f09f9.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ee433799816b.jpg[/atsimg]

These next couple photos are examples of the heavy smoke coming from the bases of the towers from.............you guessed it, the explosions that took place in the basement levels:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/533890e9732d.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/281ec7f5d137.jpg[/atsimg]

So, there's the witnesses to the explosions, the smoke from the explosions and the physical damage from the explosions.


My challenge to you is this: In my post about the demolition of 3 WTC buildings, please show any other building collapse where those plumes are visible besides controlled demolition. Please also show a building collapse that falls just like WTC7 that is not controlled demolition.

Further, please explain these multiple explosions that many people reported that: got people killed or severely injured, the destruction of the lobby, the smoke, all coming from the bases of the towers where the explosions occurred.

Once you satisfactorily explain these things, then you might have some credibility here. But do not discount such things because you won't want to believe them when the evidence is over-abundant the contrary.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...jet turbines and fuselage dont get turned into "very small pieces" while paper/plastic survive in tact...

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
And chunks of engines and fuselage were found for each aircraft at each crash site.

...your initial "very small pieces" have now grown into "chunks"...

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Such a brainy individual as yourself

...bs identified...

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
should also be able to understand that things like driver's licenses/paper inside an aircraft would be protected from some of the forces involved in a crash by things like oh, the fuselage as it came apart.

...not in an on-impact explosion so intense that it instantly melted the fuselage into "very small pieces"... the drivers license was a throw down, no doubt about it...

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...until 09.11.01, reconstruction was standard procedure, even when the reasons why were "pretty evident"...

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
And youve been around how many crash investigations?

...standard preface to banny rooster syndrome bragging identified...

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Ive been around five and not once did we reconstruct the wreckage when we knew what had happened.

...yeah, yeah - sure, sure and my great grand daddy was goyathlay...

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
reply to post by Taxi-Driver

 

Several of the people you mention, I've never heard of or know anything about.

Well that is quite telling now isn't it.

As far as Eric Hufschmid, his nickname in the 9/11 truth movement is "Huff n Puff". Very few to nobody accepts his views and he's pretty much ignored.

Except the whole Demolition of the World Trade Center Complex
from is 2002 book Painful Questions-- The first publication detailing this particular "Theory"

Just because you haven't had the energy, know-how , or gumption to find out who these people are doesn't change the fact that they spawned these conspiracy theories from 2001-2003.

You just believe what you are fed... I get it. No need to look further.

Secondly, your post shows that not only do you not know what you're talking about, you're very unresearched.

Say WHAT? You are the one who doesn't even know who the theory founders are nor have you ever heard of them..and I AM "UNRESEARCHED."

BWAHAHAH!! IRONY ..don't you see that?

Since you wanna come up in our threads throwing your BS around, I'll issue a challenge to you that I've issued to other wanna-be debunkers and my challenge is still unanswered. Before the challenge, I want to address a couple of your points.

"OUR" threads? I knew this was a knitting circle of devout followers, sock puppets, and really the last bastion of unabaited truthiness.. BUT I figure I can post where I please as long as I am trying to DENY IGNORANCE from getting a ridiculous foothold in the brains of nubiles.

My challenge to you is this: In my post about the demolition of 3 WTC buildings, please show any other building collapse where those plumes are visible besides controlled demolition. Please also show a building collapse that falls just like WTC7 that is not controlled demolition.

Show me another event where two jet liners slammed into steel framed buildings... THERE IS NOTHING TO COMPARE IT WITH.

Further, please explain these multiple explosions that many people reported that: got people killed or severely injured, the destruction of the lobby, the smoke, all coming from the bases of the towers where the explosions occurred.

Bodies hitting the ground, cars gas tanks exploding, transformers exploding, elevators slamming the basement levels, falling steel slamming into ground level objects... they ALL go "BOOM" not one is an explosive. All random "booms" here and there... Not the distinct synchronized series of explosions heard at EVERY controlled demolition of any significant scale.

Hushaboom much? Well, there is no such thing so your conspiracist sponsors had to do something... fast forward to 2004 and you get... Thermite.. Yeah, that's the ticket..BWHAHA.. yeah, if you are a sophmoric snake-oil guzzler. Surely you can see the pattern here?

reply to post by impressme

WRONG! Again, tell that to Dan Rather for CBS, he said it and he stands by his sources and he has a multi million-dollar lawsuit still pending, Dan Rather forfeited his career for the truth. Care to prove me wrong!

I already have.

As I have pointed out to you on this thread. An AWOL charge can only be applied to a servicemember on active duty who has been absent for 30 days. If you bother to look at the link I gave you, which is a link to George Bush's military record, you will see that he fully complied with his service contract.

Dan Rather got nailed for using a forged document which was a sad way to for him to end his career.

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


You presented yourself as an expert in aircraft accidents. I am trying to find out what your qualifications are....which, from your post, I am going to guess..none.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999

Dan Rather got nailed for using a forged document which was a sad way to for him to end his career.

Not only are you lying, I am going to ask you to prove it!

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


Ah yes...semantics..

Chunks...

Flight 93
www.chasingthefrog.com...
www.chasingthefrog.com...
www.chasingthefrog.com...

Flight 77
www.911myths.com...
www.911myths.com...
www.911myths.com...
www.911myths.com...

Flight 175
www.911myths.com...:Flight_175_Fuselage.jpg
www.911myths.com...:Flight_175_engine.jpg
www.911myths.com...:Si_Staten_Island.jpg

Flight 11
www.911myths.com...:Flight_11_Wheel_1.jpg
www.911myths.com...:Flight_11_Wheel_2.jpg
www.911myths.com...:Flight_11_Window.jpg
www.911myths.com...:Flight_11_Life_Vest.jpg
www.911myths.com...:Flight_11_Seat.jpg

reply to post by impressme


You have got to have the shortest memory recall on the planet.

CBS anchor Dan Rather acknowledged for the first time yesterday that there are serious questions about the authenticity of the documents he used to question President Bush's National Guard record last week on "60 Minutes."

"If the documents are not what we were led to believe, I'd like to break that story," Rather said in an interview last night. "Any time I'm wrong, I want to be right out front and say, 'Folks, this is what went wrong and how it went wrong.'

Rather spoke after interviewing the secretary to Bush's former squadron commander, who told him that the memos attributed to her late boss are fake -- but that they reflect the commander's belief that Bush was receiving preferential treatment to escape some of his Guard commitments.

www.washingtonpost.com...

After which, the Pentagon released his military records showing that he complied with his service contract, including the time he spent with the Alabama Air Guard.


How would you like your crow?

reply to post by Taxi-Driver

Hushaboom much? Well, there is no such thing so your conspiracist sponsors had to do something... fast forward to 2004 and you get... Thermite.. Yeah, that's the ticket..BWHAHA.. yeah, if you are a sophmoric snake-oil guzzler. Surely you can see the pattern here?

Now, I know why I put you on ignore it was your sick ridiculing and spewing of lies this is disgusting and it shows how disingenuous you are.

This is not about your opinion because I don’t believe there is someone that has been on here on ATS this many years and is still ignorant of all the 911 facts! You are playing an evil game on here and you are messing with peoples “emotions” no wonder no one wants to come in here to debate anything in the 911 threads who wants to be ridiculed and attack for their opinions.

You have insulted some good people in here and have put us in the same category as people who want to make money off 911.

Do not compare us with the con artist, and lairs who chose to cash in on this tragedy, how dare you!

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by Taxi-Driver

 

Hushaboom much? Well, there is no such thing so your conspiracist sponsors had to do something... fast forward to 2004 and you get... Thermite.. Yeah, that's the ticket..BWHAHA.. yeah, if you are a sophmoric snake-oil guzzler. Surely you can see the pattern here?

Now, I know why I put you on ignore it was your sick ridiculing and spewing of lies this is disgusting and it shows how disingenuous you are.

This is not about your opinion because I don’t believe there is someone that has been on here on ATS this many years and is still ignorant of all the 911 facts!

I am not ignorant of 9/11 conspiracy THEORIES... as a matter of fact I feel I know them better than many here.

I mean, how could I come to a sensible informed position on a subject if I haven't explored ALL avalible information?

Do you hold yourself to the same standard? Or did you bite off a piece of dat truth pie and n'eer look back?

You are playing an evil game on here and you are messing with peoples “emotions” no wonder no one wants to come in here to debate anything in the 911 threads who wants to be ridiculed and attack for their opinions.

I am not playing.

Further, I am cutting through the BS, and spin and all that fluff; while giving my well researched and informed OPINION.

Which I feel is well within my rights to do.

It is the fact you don't like my opinion, and now you get all teary eyed cause you don't want to be wrong... yet what I say makes perfect sense.

You don't want to be wrong...I mean really wrong, embarrasingly wrong, and duped, by con-artists and showmen. It hurts to think you have wasted all this time on a web hoax.

I say, don't waste another minute on this BS and it will go away.. as will I. because I refuse to spend anymore time researching the same old hackeneyed material.

You have insulted some good people in here and have put us in the same category as people who want to make money off 911.

Do not compare us with the con artist, and lairs who chose to cash in on this tragedy, how dare you!

Nope, you are an unwitting participant they count on for cash and support. Even if you don't pay for anything you become/can be a *free* Face to face advertising partner (i.e. Truth Spreader)..and someone down the line will buy a book, banner, hat, t-shirt or DVD.

Sucks to be scammed. Sorry.





[edit on 1-6-2009 by Taxi-Driver]

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


Actually, I am having prime rib for dinner. I am afraid you are the one who will be enjoying the crow tonight. Let’s also throw in a couple raw eggs for the face! My memory is excellent but looks like you may have a problem with your memory.

"I know that I didn't type them," Knox said of the Killian memos. "However, the information in there is correct," she said, adding that Killian and the other officers would "snicker about what [Bush] was getting away with."


"I think this is very, very serious," said Bob Schieffer, CBS's chief Washington correspondent. "When Dan tells me these documents are not forgeries, I believe him. But somehow we've got to find a way to show people these documents are not forgeries." Some friends of Rather, whose contract runs until the end of 2006, are discussing whether he might be forced to make an early exit from CBS.

www.washingtonpost.com...

The apology Bush owes Dan Rather
CBS pandered to the Republican party by giving its anchorman the boot for revealing the truth about the president's war record

As George Bush shuffles off to a long absence that is not only with leave but with a heartfelt global sentiment that it is long overdue, he leaves behind a lot of unfinished business. One wonders whether, just in case, he will smuggle in a pardon for himself for his technical desertion and very definite absence without leave from the Texas Air National Guard.
What is really in order is some sort of pardon and apology to Dan Rather, who CBS's cowardly management squeezed from 60 Minutes for telling the truth about Bush's war record. Rather's suit against them, with its accompanying subpoenas, has now revealed that in their eagerness to throw a sacrificial victim to the swiftboating bloggers with their escorting media sharks, CBS management actually considered such paragons of journalistic objectivity as Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, William Kristol, William Safire and William Buckley for the investigating panel. Their concern was to counter the "reputation" of the network's liberal bias.

In fact, the evidence was compelling. Many others, myself included in my book, Deserter, had proved that George Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard with nepotistic backing in order to avoid service in Vietnam, a war that he agreed with. And then he went missing and failed to fulfill the terms of his service, an offence for which other less well-connected people were going to prison or being drafted to the jungle.
Let us consider the sins of Rather. Firstly, he admitted openly what everyone knew – that anchormen are performers not journalists. Secondly, 60 Minutes pandered to the television need for a McGuffin to wave around. However, it is still not proven that the memo under consideration was a forgery. What has been proven beyond doubt was that the information in it was accurate. The very secretary who said that she had not typed that particular piece of paper attested that she had typed exactly that same message.
The kindest explanation for CBS, other than outright political complicity, is that it paid the Danegeld, yet again, to keep the conservative hordes off its back by pandering to the Republican party. In a sense, it was not unique since most of the media were in post-9/11, post-Iraq mode mesmerised into thinking that any criticism of the Bush administration was treachery in the face of the enemy. It is not as if the Democratic benches hosted a swelling chorus of dissent either.

www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by impressme


Nice try at diverting the train. You said he was AWOL, which the records clearly show he was not.