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Are 9/11 Official Story Proponents Really the Unpatriotic?

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posted on May, 31 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by sayiamu
 


You havent seen any rights stripped...until Jan. 20, 2009. So much for your theory.




posted on May, 31 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


Hmm..

Patriot Act ?



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


yes ..the Patriot Act ... another bit of irony to call it that ... No Fly Lists ... while the borders remain seives...

you know ... I'm not accusing .. but ANYONE who is PAID to post messages on discussion boards ... in order to attempt to sway public opinion or deflect discussion away from real truths .... imo, has got to be the most un-Patriotic, treasonous and underhanded citizen next to those that actually give those kinds of orders....

if you don't know .. its documented that that it exists... and I find it an act of desperation and subterfuge... and points to the fact that there IS something to hide...

footsoldiers in the IGNORANCE MOVEMENT.

PATRIOTS UNITE .... turn off your TVs and question 911.......



[edit on 31-5-2009 by sayiamu]



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by sayiamu
 


Sure looks like an accusation to me.

I WISH I was getting paid to post messages on here. Could you tell me who to talk to so I can start getting paid?



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Plenty of debris was found...mostly very small pieces. And about the ID, there were several driver's licenses/IDs found in the wreckage.


...jet turbines and fuselage dont get turned into "very small pieces" while paper/plastic survive in tact...


Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
As for the reconstruction, that is done when they need to try to figure out why an airplane crashed. On 9/11, it was pretty evident why they crashed.


...until 09.11.01, reconstruction was standard procedure, even when the reasons why were "pretty evident"...



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


well ... what IS your payoff ? ..tell me ... why do you love your country ... WHY are you a Patriot?



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 02:40 PM
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Since we're going there, I've got a couple:

The man who fears no truths has nothing to fear from lies.
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.
I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be.
Thomas Jefferson

And my favorite quote that relates directly to the topic being discussed:

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. Benjamin Franklin


Um, ya, it's a done deal......



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
We are not discussing NIST. We are discussing the men and women of the FDNY that were there and saw the damage to WTC 7 that day.

You can do better than that, Swampfox.

We're not discussing men and women who were there that day, we're meant to be discussing patriots.

Now, you made a claim that WTC 7 was in danger of falling and structurally unsound for the entire afternoon. All that you can do to support it is to supply some media quotes of witnesses.

Why won't you support your claim with evidence from a patriotic government report, such as the NIST report? NIST conducted a report about the entire building, so please quote me to where the patriotic group of professionals agree with you.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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I really wouldn't call them "unpatriotic" per say. Perhaps uninformed, but not unpatriotic.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
You show a crumpled piece of airliner wreckage and say its untouched? Now thats classic....


Show me the evidence that that piece of aluminum was involved in a massive explosion and fireball? Yes it's crumpled but it has no marks on it that indicate it was involved in any crash and fireball.


Then you post a picture taken during the clean up and call it planting evidence...again classic....


Clean up? Feds in white shirts and ties, running around, were cleaning up? Yeah right...
Was the Queen visiting or something, or were they scared the grass would turn brown?

Very nice convenient pieces, a little harder to plant a burnt out airframe of an actual aircraft isn't it?



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 



Typical reaction from someone unwilling to accept the truth.


So insulting one’s intelligence with false accusations is your way of debating.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by impressme]



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by sayiamu
..or ...is the true Patriot the one that stands up and asks these questions and holds its government to task in order to honor and preserve the ideals and documents that the country is founded on?


Wowza, I never knew I had a twin brother who thinks just like me!



I gotta say sayiamu, if the OP(me) gets to award someone the "winner" of the thread, you nailed it with that one! Well done. And it's not just that paragraph either. You are consistently nailing exactly where I am coming from on all your posts here.

My logic is flowing like this:

1) Tragic event occurs (9/11)

2) Government claims story A

3) 99% at very first support story A, patriotism abounds in rally cry behind government

4) Support for story A starts slipping when people start noticing that the evidence is telling a different story, story X (anything BUT story A)

5) More and more research is done, leading support away even further from story A, and the possibilities widen for different forms of story X

6) Through further research on story A, other evidence surfaces that not only are we dealing with a false story A, but that story A is really just the lying tip of the iceberg!

7) Since my brothers and sisters were supposedly murdered according to story A, and I am a patriotic American who loves them, when story A becomes a mere conspiracy theory because it does not match the evidence, my desire to find out the real truth for them because I care multiplies one hundred fold.

And when I also find out through similar research that not only was story A a lie, or at least incomplete or deceptive through omission, but that also evil elements in government have been doing very bad things across the board in an apparent plan for global enslavement- then my patriotism completely shifts. I go back and read the constitution. My hear lies there, with that document, and becomes obsessed with vindicating the victims- ALL the victims of this cluster****.

8) In the midst of all this, proponents of the Ignorance Movement continually call me unpatriotic for questioning story A. And I am baffled. I don't understand. Me? Unpatriotic? But but, I loved my people! I want the truth for them! The REAL perpetrators MUST be brought to justice! I MUST believe that someone would have similarly taken a stand for ME when they saw the evidence didn't match story A and the government was hiding all kinds of things from the public. Because this is AMERICA! NO SOLDIER LEFT BEHIND! We don't do our own that way. At least this American won't. And I must remain steadfast in that belief even if there are no Americans that will do so, because those are MY values as an American. I choose that as a good value. An honest value. A moral value. The RIGHT value.

9) Bush REFUSED an independent investigation for over a year! I mean Christ, that was one of the first clues right there that something was very wrong with story A. That right there showed me that my patriotism needed to lie somewhere else. Anywhere but there! He obviously did not have the victim's justice in his heart. We've come to find out that he had their interest in his cabal agenda's wallet instead!

10) I have concluded that I now stand on the morally correct side of the proverbial fence. My patriotism lies in the right place: behind the constitution, and behind truth and justice for the victims- and that includes all the human beings being affected by this.

11) I sleep at night quite soundly. Have I done enough? Am I an idiot for having these values? Should I just say screw it and go bury my head in the sand somewhere? And worse, should I believe that no other American would have shifted their patriotism for me when they saw me murdered by lying scum trying to rule and enslave the entire planet?

12) Patriotism: it most definitely means different things to different people. For me though, I am content with the path I have chosen on this. I can face God with a clear conscience.

It is from this logic that I base my sentiments in the OP. If it is failed, then sue me. But that's what this man is made of. And I am sticking by it.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


Do you know what I think is unpatriotic, is someone who has been posting for years in the 911 threads defending the OS, which lacks all “scientific evidences”. There are many good posters in these 911 threads that have done the research for YOU they have shown you, “undeniable proof” using creditable science and have shown you creditable eyewitness who witness explosions and flashes at the WTC these good posters have shown you proof of the lies in the OS. These good posters have brought you good videos of scientists, experts, firemen, police officers, first responders, and even high level government officials who were there at all four location of the 911 events. These people disagree with the government OS. What these creditable witnesses saw and heard is not what the OS says. Yet YOU continue to ignore all of evidences that have been handed to you. You have not been able to discredit any of the true creditable scientific evidences, or the creditable eyewitness. Here is a fact the OS is a proven lie. Being ignorant is one thing however; you have been shown the truth. I think that is being unpatriotic and disingenuous furthermore, when debating 911 with facts and creditable sciences, one does not need to attack with insults, snide remarks, and ridicule.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by TrueAmerican
 


Thanks TA ... I'm honored .... What YOU said originally (and subsequently) was music ... Its been needed to be said for a long time ... the MSM adopted attacking somone's Patriotism instantly ..and it has been effective up until the present ... it was great to finally hear someone say, correctly, that those in the "Ignorance Movement" (I think we created something here) are the ones who are traitorous... those that are covering up are loyal to the God of power and money ... not freedom or Lady Liberty...

NOT to question..... NOT to demand truth.... is NOT being loyal to the values that this country was supposed to represent. If there is even a single doubt... it should be fleshed out and answered ...simply to ensure justice....and as we all know ..there are questions about 911 with no plausible answer that Ive heard...

anyone who disagrees, in my mind, given the evidence.... is not a Patriot ....but a profiteer...



[edit on 31-5-2009 by sayiamu]



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by Wyn Hawks
 


I strongly doubt that paper or plastics that were slammed into something else at high velocity would survive very intact either.
It's simple:
jet engines = outside of the plane and being slammed into something
paper and plastics = inside the plane more protected than the above

Just a comment....



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


Yeah, I keep hearing people whine about the Patriot Act. Funny thing though, not one of them can give an example where they have been unable to speak their mind, publish their opinion, worship whichever God they choose to. Nor can they list an example of the military being billeted in their houses without their permission, or show that they have been tried twice for the same offense. In other words, you rights, as enumerated under the Bill of Rights are still there. Well, were there...since Jan 20, 2009 some of them have taken a beating.

NOW, if you want to discuss non-citizen terrorists...the Constitution does not guarantee them squat.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

...jet turbines and fuselage dont get turned into "very small pieces" while paper/plastic survive in tact...


And chunks of engines and fuselage were found for each aircraft at each crash site.

Such a brainy individual as yourself should also be able to understand that things like driver's licenses/paper inside an aircraft would be protected from some of the forces involved in a crash by things like oh, the fuselage as it came apart.



...until 09.11.01, reconstruction was standard procedure, even when the reasons why were "pretty evident"...


And youve been around how many crash investigations? Ive been around five and not once did we reconstruct the wreckage when we knew what had happened.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by tezzajw
 


It would be helpful if you actually followed the conversation for once....rather than jumping in the middle and demanding someone to do something.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


I dont know man..

I think its pretty sketchy personally..

And no, nothing has happened personally to me, although I cant say for sure bc how would I know if my emails have been read, my phone calls tapped, etc...

I know I prob have nothing to worry about bc I am a peon.. but...


Patriot Act Taking Away Liberties



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by sayiamu
 


I dont have a payoff.

ATS was originally about denying ignorance, and yet, when it comes to the events of 9/11/01, ignorance abounds on here. Maybe its the relatively short memory recall of most Americans, maybe its an inbred hatred of the United States, or maybe its the arrogance that most Americans have in regards to someone other than Americans being able to cause what we saw on 9/11, I dont know which it is. I do know that if I took the majority of the posters off of this thread and had a government representative tell them the sky was blue....they wouldnt believe it.

Why do I love my country...you wont begin to understand and I know certain posters will get their rocks off bashing this, but here goes anyway....

Maybe its the certificate that says my daughters are eligible to join the DAR.

Maybe its the sections of the history books where my ancestors helped run the Underground Railroad bringing escaped slaves to freedom.

Maybe its the picture of my Grandfather standing in front of a farmhouse outside Chateau Theirry wearing the DSC pinned on his chest by Douglas MacArthur.

Maybe its the picture of my Uncle at his graduation from the Naval Academy.

Possibly its the pictures of my uncles and my father in their uniforms and the knowledge of the things they helped to accomplish during their service.

Maybe its the knowledge that, even though my government occasionally royally screws the pooch, Americans by and large, have done more positive things for more people around the world than any other nation in the history of the world.



So let the bashing commence



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