I say yes, they are.

1) They don't care enough about all those that died on 9/11, and hence their fellow citizens, to want a real investigation into the matter- when after 8 years 9/11 truthers have been exposing legitimate questions based upon the available evidence that scream for a new, proper investigation.

2) Given the implications of such evidence, and the outright failure of the 9/11 Commission in face of the evidence, how anyone can accept the 9/11 Commission Report as the final lid on the trash can that is 9/11 is beyond me. An objective mind, regardless of predisposed opinion, and out of sheer desire for true justice for the victims, should WANT a new investigation- if they really cared about their fellow Americans.

3) Given #2, this indicates to me that these people have no compassion whatsoever, and may well be involved themselves in some manner. Could some of the debunkers actually be some of the passengers or those involved in the plot, that agreed to be government shills in exchange for money and other perks? Highly possible. Cause they don't care. They don't care about all those innocent lives lost. Not at all. They are more concerned with perpetuating the government story than the lives and the grieving families of those that died.

4) If all the evidence matched exactly what happened, I could see flaming 9/11 truthers out the ying yang. I really could. But the facts are that the evidence does not match the official story on so many counts, that one would figure they would join in questioning the official story- if nothing else out of sheer concern for their fellow citizens- and resulting military- who's lives have been wasted. Yes, wasted. There is just no love in these people- either for their own people, or foreign people who have suffered so greatly due to all this.

Patriotism is love of country- and love of fellow citizenry. If I was one of those who perished on 9/11, I would be extremely pissed and damning you to hell for not questioning the official story, and its proponents, given the discrepancies in the evidence. You did not defend me. You did not love me. You are not my brother.

[edit on Sat May 30th 2009 by TrueAmerican]

Fine, come on over to my base and express those opinions.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Fine, come on over to my base and express those opinions.

Never question! Never doubt!



It is the people's duty to ensure the government is doing its job properly. Allowing it to go unquestioned is the penultimate in treachery; second only to declaring yourself emperor.

[edit on 5/29/2009 by eNumbra]

[edit on 5/29/2009 by eNumbra]

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Fine, come on over to my base and express those opinions.

Yeah I really don't understand this attitude.

If the official story is so rock solid, and anyone who doesn't believe it are really nothing but cranks, why would you get so angry?

Why would so many waste there time trying to knock down 'truther' theories if there is nothing to them?

Do these same people spend time in other threads trying to dispel any other theories they find offensive to their 'patriotism'?

What is it that motivates this kind of desperation and commitment to silence a bunch of cranks? I can understand the occasional poster, but you guys, yes you Swampy, have spent years doing this. Do you have nothing better to do, your life so empty and boring that you find arguing with cranks entertaining or something? Nothing on TV? No friends from your base to hang out with?

BTW what base would that be? Does this mean you are active military or something? Are you officially connected with the 9-11 events? Has the military got nothing better to do than argue with a bunch of cranks?

Good post TA, S&F.

I don't believe the official story, and am continually and deeply disheartened by the lack of any new and comprehensive investigation into the events of that day.

However, I feel that for me to call those who disagree with me unpatriotic is just as dangerous and close-minded as allowing them to call me the same out of some nationalistic fervor.

When speaking about patriotism (which personally I don't regard as being important for me as an individual, but I'm just trying to make a point,) I feel that patriotism to a country which claims to enshrine and honor freedom and diversity above all would mean that it is my patriotic responsibility to defend the rights of everyone to possess and express their opinion without being labeled unpatriotic just because their world view, experiences, and perspectives differ from my own.

I understand - and share - the frustration people feel with regards to those who seemingly obstruct a new investigation. Nevertheless, even those people have a right to reach their own conclusions and feel what they feel as individuals about the events of that day. I will not attack them for that.

Originally posted by AceWombat04
When speaking about patriotism (which personally I don't regard as being important for me as an individual, but I'm just trying to make a point,) I feel that patriotism to a country which claims to enshrine and honor freedom and diversity above all would mean that it is my patriotic responsibility to defend the rights of everyone to possess and express their opinion without being labeled unpatriotic just because their world view, experiences, and perspectives differ from my own.

But don't you see the whole reason I wrote this thread is because we, 9/11 truth seekers, ARE THE ONES BEING CONTINUALLY LABELED AS UNPATRIOTIC!!!

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by AceWombat04
When speaking about patriotism (which personally I don't regard as being important for me as an individual, but I'm just trying to make a point,) I feel that patriotism to a country which claims to enshrine and honor freedom and diversity above all would mean that it is my patriotic responsibility to defend the rights of everyone to possess and express their opinion without being labeled unpatriotic just because their world view, experiences, and perspectives differ from my own.

But don't you see the whole reason I wrote this thread is because we, 9/11 truth seekers, ARE THE ONES BEING CONTINUALLY LABELED AS UNPATRIOTIC!!!

Yes, and I COMPLETELY understand and sympathize. Believe me.

I just don't think two wrongs make a right, as it were. I respect your opinion though, and I understand what you're saying.

Patriotism is the guise with which leaders control their populations. Coupled with the threat of a shadowy enemy and a secure pay cheque, patriotism ensures that there will always be a ready supply of soldiers, willing to fight for their leaders' profit, power and influence.

If humans were only patriotic to planet Earth, then we wouldn't be in the friggin' mess that we are.

I wish that patriotic arse-hole leaders would fight each other over a chess board and let us ordinary peons live our 'free' lives without worrying about their flag-waving, pissing contests.

I do concur that it is preposterous for them to call those who propose and support a new investigation and who question the official story unpatriotic. The way I look at is, we're all one big whirlpool of opposing views, but we're still all in this mess together whether we agree or not, and whether we want to be or not. What happens to one of us affects all of us. Both view points are necessary in order to arrive at the truth, in my opinion. Either one calling the other unpatriotic is unnecessary and uncalled for in my view, because we both want the same thing - the truth. They just define truth differently than we do. The majority of people who are "anti-truther" believe they are doing the right thing. In my opinion, they aren't out to destroy the truth, because they believe that the official story is the truth. They believe we are crazy, or paranoid, and therefore detrimental to their own version of what patriotism and truth mean.

Going to extremes on either side only serves to create further dichotomy in my opinion. I feel that we need to remember that the whole point of this is to find the truth, and to strive toward that end regardless of anything else. Actively contesting or striving against the other side is a trap that can take away from that goal, in my opinion. In other words, I think we need to continue to strive for something, rather than against anything or anyone, because we all ultimately just want to be free and to arrive at the truth.

posted by Swampfox46_1999

Fine, come on over to my base and express those opinions.

Why shouldn't I? I am a NamVet with an honorable discharge. I have a few medals. I have consistently defended the rights and benefits of fellow veterans and active duty and reserve military all my life. I always pray for their safe return to their homes and families. I raised a big stink when the treacherous Bush Regime was discarding the wounded from the no-win wars in rotting old rat-infested buildings. What did you do; blindly support screwing over the wounded and forgetting them?

Why shouldn't I be able to come over to your base and speak my mind? I know many active duty and veterans who agree with my views on 9-11 completely. Maybe you are the one who had better watch what you say over there on your base. Maybe openly supporting the 9-11 perps might be a little bit dangerous on your base don't you think? Maybe you should ask around over there on your base to see if it is wiser to keep your big yap shut on 9-11 connected issues.

The thing is that most people seem to have no interest in truth or justice. They live for personal reward often in the form of social acceptance and income. There is a clear line between those who put truth first and really care what that might be and those that don't. A good segment of the population go along to belong. These people want to accept everyone so there is peace and harmony above all. Others just want to maximize their gain. Actually caring about what the truth might be is no high on most peoples scale unless or until it interferes with their acceptance or survival. A lot of people would willingly go along with hanging someone that spoke the truth even if they recognized the truth when they heard it. That is unless hanging them was unpopular or they where afraid the would be caught and punished. It's just the feeble state many people occupy.

Thanks for the post. S&F.

The thing that gets me is that the investigation didn't even reveal imcompetence! No one on our side was held accountable for allowing these attacks to occur. That is the biggest tip off to me.

The fact that the Bush Administration did everything possible to prevent an investigation in the first place. Then loaded the panel with insiders and did not fund it properly. In fact some leaders resigned in digust at the whitewash!

Lee and Hamilton are quoted to say something to the effect "we were set up to fail". The 911 families and victims were not heard when their protests were what finally forced the administration to open an official investigation.

The American public is constantly being lied to and treated as children. Take the latest example of the torture photos. We are children and shouldn't see these awful pictures. Now was that really done for the benefit of the public? Our leaders think we can't handle the truth but the fact is they hide the truth in order to further their greedy ambitions.

We are not allowed to know where the TARP money went when that was OUR money they borrowed and spent!?!?!? We can't handle the truth my a$$.

911 is currently being used as an excuse again to escalate the war in Afghanistan and Pakistan. It was exposed as a lie for the invasidon of Iraq.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven yet we have people here smelling nothing but roses! Makes me sick. 5 million Iraqi refugees based on a lie. A million Iraqi deaths based on a lie. Over 4000 US soldiers dead based on a lie. Tens of thousands wounded and traumitized US soldiers based on a lie!!!!!!

Star and flag!
I hold these peep sheeps just as responsible as the perps!
Apathy and indifference to the truth IS what may be our downfall.
Greed is the disease, these are it's symptoms.
In many areas, our denial of the real goings on is just crazy stupid.
If we believe the bs we're handed(with no study), we deserve what we get.

One clue could of been the no-bid contracts for haliburtons benefit!
I wonder how much more clue do we need? Jeeeez!
Anyone remember cheney? LOL! He's still pulling the strings.
And our chain. Incredible.
He(helped)ruined the country, oh...we're safe alright.
Our country's conscience is now paying for the dead and displaced.
We are/maybe ALL screwed as a nation and this is why.
We prolly deserve it.
Karma happens. Just like s*** does.
We care way more 'bout gettin' MORE than we care 'bout people.

They let some dude in a cave get away with it! Scot free?
(if I believe the official story that is)
Another clue? Boy, how many do I need?
So we just invade another country anyway? Why?
These are war crimes peeps, get real!
Google Tim Osman sometime.
Anyone that is so deluded, easily manipulated,
and mentally lazy , I don't trust, really. How can I?
Why do they tell me I'm crazy, but they have never even looked
at one(bbc)video or website??? Or the official report.
What about the stand down order?
What about building 7?
What about thermate and cut beams?
What about the seperate explosions coming from the basements?
What about all the paperwork and people involved? Stocks?
What about the lack of wreckage? Or increased construction beforehand?
Wheres the rest of the videos from the pentagon?
Wheres the blackboxes?
What about the passports and names?
Why was cheney running a similar 'drill' ON THE VERY SAME DAY?
Why are the people with the most to benefit all really good friends?
Why are oil contracts so lucrative anyway?
These are just a few average questions...

Need any more clues? How 'bout a bailout?
Don't you see who really runs the country yet?


[edit on 30-5-2009 by dodadoom]