Originally posted by roniii259
True, and a scram jet only works at high Mach while a PDE cant go as fast

I agree Roniii,
I think the current efforts at China lake are to eventually build a hybrid turbofan "supercharged" with PDE technology - not to mainstream PDE's into high speed aerospace craft.

The scramjet/waverider projects now underway are focusing more on the high mach speeds
.
Once again I am reminded that if the Aurora exists it would be using 1980's tech and at that time scramjets may have been far less feasible than a PDE which is actually a 50 yr old design concept.

Thanks for the link bios, that is a good article.

1. That is 1945 technology, no comparison.

2. The engines in the article are air breathing yes. They also don't power a plane. I guess what I meant was that it is a closed combustion, well detination I guess, versus an open combustion. It has to be closed to create the shockwave.

Yes contrails are a result of combustion, with when using oxygen produces the byproducts carbon dioxide and water, I was just making a simple statement, but it was correct We could go into partial pressures and vapor pressures and all that jazz if you want to.

Solid fuel rockets don't make contrails, they make highly toxic smoke plumes. In the case of the Space Shuttle main engines yes it is pure water vapor.

3. Imagine a plane going mach 5 or 7 or whatever, it takes a tremendous amount of power to go that fast. Now imagine being in a plane that was pulsating once every second. Catch my drift?

how about a plane with two engines that are used as stages, so then the Aurora could use both

strange this is coming into play over the uk, but this afternoon i saw another strange contrail that i would say was dohnuts on a rope but it was on the fading out stage of its life. so it could be a normal contrail but with a bit of strange wind change i dunno. This was in newport (isle of wight.uk) southish id say about 7:25 - 7:30 this evenin. if anyone saw anyfin like this please say.

again i cant say it was a real contrail of these craft cause i was a bit l8 to see them

im thinking to american tech here with aurora. but what if us brits have made somthing. ive heard of a halo project (high alltitude low observance) i think it called ???

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by madmartinez]

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by madmartinez]

how can i attach the photos?

Looks like a normal plane trail to me...(not that I know anything about planes) I see 'em all the time above me though, I live next to RAF Waddington.

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by LadyCool21]

Interesting looking, but i wouldnt jump to Aurora yet

Originally posted by LadyCool21
Looks like a normal plane trail to me...(not that I know anything about planes) I see 'em all the time above me though, I live next to RAF Waddington.

The image shows the "dohnuts on a rope" configuration that many people believe to be the result of a pulse detonation engine, such as the one rumored to exist on the aurora. normal contralis normally areeven (ish)

Hope this helps

Originally posted by madmartinez
maybe u americans r spying on us for some strange reason thats why we see them lol

If we were spying on the UK, you would not see us.

Shattered OUT...

In the pics, it looks as if it is double engined, and one engine is having a really poor day.

I say this because the one to the left or the upper most one is straight, normal, and the bottom one is all wavy and looks like donuts.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by bios

Originally posted by roniii259
True, and a scram jet only works at high Mach while a PDE cant go as fast

I agree Roniii,
I think the current efforts at China lake are to eventually build a hybrid turbofan "supercharged" with PDE technology - not to mainstream PDE's into high speed aerospace craft.

The scramjet/waverider projects now underway are focusing more on the high mach speeds
.
Once again I am reminded that if the Aurora exists it would be using 1980's tech and at that time scramjets may have been far less feasible than a PDE which is actually a 50 yr old design concept.

Interesting... however, most scramjets need to get to high Mach before they will work, necessitating a boost by another aircraft or having regular jet engines in addition to the scramjets... a costly and impractical exercise. The advantage of PDE's is that they can operate from zero to high Mach, thereby doing away with the fuss of getting your aircraft up to speed. Therefore, you will have an operationally effective aircraft, ready to go when you need it, much like the SR-71, which the Aurora is meant to replace.

Also, if you're referring to "50 year old technology" as being the V-1's pulse jet, it's definitely not the same tech, although they do both pulse. The V-1 had an intake comprised of spring-loaded slats to cycle air in for combustion...

they certainly are of a higher quality that previous cited evidence of "donuts on a rope"

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies

Originally posted by madmartinez
maybe u americans r spying on us for some strange reason thats why we see them lol

If we were spying on the UK, you would not see us.

Shattered OUT...

yeah we'd of heard it and read it in ur mail

Looking at the photo, I'd say it's a contrail that is being shattered slightly by wind. Look how all the puffs are on one side of the main trail. I'd say, taken some 5-30 minutes after the plane has past depending on wind conditions.

i see similar con/chem trails pattern over my part of florida all the time. Not being an airplane expert I can't say what kind of craft causes them, since they are usually too high for me to discern with the naked eye.

Originally posted by Devils Advocate
Looking at the photo, I'd say it's a contrail that is being shattered slightly by wind. Look how all the puffs are on one side of the main trail. I'd say, taken some 5-30 minutes after the plane has past depending on wind conditions.

Yup. I might also venture that it's ice crytsal fall, similar to what you get with your high altitude cirrus clouds. You get little whisps of ice crystals hanging down in a sort of a large inverrted comma shape ( ' ) from a cirrus cloud, blown by high-altitude winds.
I'm afraid this one's most likely a dud... sorry. But keep watching the skies... Aurora contrails are likely to be VERY high altitude, if you see them at all. And you never know what you might find.