God loves Masons too!

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
it could very easily be said that everything was created by the father for the son.

Such a view hints at Christianity being polytheistic, with the Father and the Son being two separate gods.

You missed the point.
And when I refer to God the father I am referring to God as the first father of creation, first cause, or creator of all. Jesus the son is co-joined to the father in this case through an act of cocreation as well as via the indwelling spirit of God. In other words, man was made to contain God (by design), and did so in fullness via the person of Jesus Christ. It's only paradoxically exclusive when strict doctrine is added, or assumption in the absence of a fuller description, which I think is the case with your comment.
What I was trying to describe was an act of universal love operating at the source of creation in respone to another post.
Is it the answer to the question, why? with, "because I love you."
Why is there something and not nothing? Because I love you.

"Fear not little ones, nor let your hearts be troubled, for it pleased the father to share his kindgom with all his children."

"And as my father hath sent me, even so send I you."

Jesus the person, of himself was a nothing, which made him everything as beloved son of God, and through him the value assigned to us, is also of infinite measure, and to the extent that all was "made by the father for the son" so too was it made for the son in me and in you. To "grok" this, experiencially, is to come into an awareness that one is truly standing at the center of the universe in a highly solipsistic manner.

So yes, the sun shines FOR us, and everything is FOR us.

This view is also upheld by modern quantum theory, particularly when combined with the strong anthropic principal wherein consciousness cannot be excluded from what amounts to an eternal act of co-creation.

God consciousness or Christ consciousness then may be considered nothing more or less than the conscious awareness, of the truth, about who we really are, and what it's all for, and why.

IMHO, Christianity is rendered complete only as an all-inclusive proposition of love, by love, and for love, whereby the heart of the law is mercy, and the final standard of justice, forgiveness.

It is important to remember, that Jesus himself exclaimed, from the vantage point of the cross "forgive them father, for they know not what they do." What was this only for Christians or those who believed in him, or was it directed at and to the very people who put him there, which at some level is everyone, if you finger the pride of man as being causal.

I realize that's a long reply to your one line observation, but there may have been something important here, something worthy of consideration and possible appropriation, esepcailly by Christian masons.

I see it as an eternally present doorway or gatefold through which we can freely come and go and find pasture, and the offer nothing more than a supremely loving INVITATION, for which the only possible and appropriate response must be with love in kind.

Thus, to say, accept Christianity or be damned, is the very antithesis of the all-inclusive nature of the proposition of Christian salvation. It's an invitation which keeps on inviting and who's to say when that invitation could pass by or be removed, there's the rub. It must have VALUE.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by OmegaPoint]

In my view, this is the secret of Christianity.

Because the fullness of the spirit of God indwelt the person of Jesus, by design, and because the spirit of God is changless and timeless, there is, through Jesus Christ an eternal representation, in human terms, of the embodiment of the temple of God, and this then serves, as a model and a template for the spiritual perfection of man, not by works, which cannot justify the flesh to the spirit, but by faith through the reception of the free gift of grace. This then is the supreme challenge of the Christian faith - how to recieve something of incaculable value, which is unearned, yet freely given. The great work of the Christian believer therefore, is to believe and recieve, while entering into the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ as a point of continual transformation, through which we become saturated with the unsearchable riches and treasure of Christ, who, I say again, contained, by design, the fullness of the spirit of the living God. Each human being is a Jesus in potentia and we are always living in a world waiting to be born anew.
"All creation groans in travail for the revelation of the sons of God."

We have a full and complete symapthetic harmonious connection there, as human beings, to that which would make us both fully human and fully divine. Thus, Jesus Christ is the master builder, and as it turns out, the stone that was rejected by the builders, which became the keystone. And he builds, both from the bottom up and from the top down, and his mind, the Christmind, is a sphere within a sphere, who's realm of conscious awareness continues to expand, forever, there being no limit to God.

Now I must only apply what I already know.. since principals must be proven right by their application.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by network dude

There can only exist one truth in the universe. Even on a physics level, all things are unified. This One truth also applies to all and the matrix of this world in it's 3 dimensional existence. I remember the words "Narrow is the way. The only way to The Father is through Me".

That message was given to us all as a gift. 2000 years ago the Son of God and The Son of man came to this world to show us the way.

The rest is an intellectual delusion that caresses the egos of our flesh and our minds. If you leave anything to man himself, ultimately he destroys even himself, not to mention the world around him.

Why is His message of love such a point of discourse and rebellion? When He came to give up His Life for us all. Why is that something that people automatically reject? Why is such a beautifull act so beat upon by mere mortals who ultimately are here to die. Should we not all be grateful that we have a means to be saved. After all none can escape death.

I don't write this to start an argument here on the forum. But I just wish people didn't equate God and Jesus as religion. Religion was made by man for man. I'm not entirely sure that is what Jesus would have created. But in this world money and power rule, in what ever means buys the power.

These are just a few thoughts. I understand everyone has their own journey through this world and we all must respect each one. But even on a physics level there is a multiverse of converging dimensions and worlds that all apply to one truth. It's no different for mankind.

It's a good thing we Freemasons don't worship Albert Pike or Manly Hall.

No man speaks for Freemasonry as no man speaks for God (except One in my opinion).

As for my own beliefs, I am a Christian. I* believe that Freemasonry has provided me with a much deeper understanding of Christ's Message and his love.

It has also taught me to be more tolerant of the beliefs of others. Also to understand we are all equals and all the children of God.

Like a parent loves their child no matter what the child does, better or worse, so God loves us.

The only way to escape God's love is to defy it, to deny it and to purposefully avoid it.

reply to post by network dude


If you are a Christian, and you've made a calculated decision to believe in Christ and what he has done, then doesnt that make your religion at least somewhat exclusive? A humble sense of intellectual falability is definitely lacking in most Christian circles I've been around, but arent you nullifying your claim to a "belief" by in a sense castrating the desire or need to share what you've experienced as a result of your belief with people who live in other countries? or your own for that matter? The Christianity I know is definitley worth sharing, hence the reason Christ said "go".

I enjoyed the post and I share most of your sentiments, I just havent given up on the need to actually share a good thing with others who are in a rat wheel trying to earn their way to a God that has already provided free justification and new life through his Son.

It's an interesting paradox.

Based on his statement from the cross, I believe the forgiveness is for everyone, whether they believe in Jesus Christ as Godsent or not. However, as a gift, it's full benefits cannot be appropriated unless and until it is recieved, and unwrapped. Interestingly, once appropriated, we come to see that the true naature of the gift is our truest self as we are and are becoming within the framework of the heavenly household of God. So it's definitely well worth sharing, while at the same time being of an all-inclusive nature, meaning that knowing about and recieving the gift of salvation through Christ isn't a pre-requisit for forgivness and inclusion by God, and this exclusive aspect, is the flaw at the heart of the predominantly held Christian doctrine. Like I said, it's prescious and of incaculable value, but to be a gift of love, it can only be presented and recieved with love, never coersion by fear of exclusion, or more specificallyl, damnation. That's what's given Christianity such a bad rap, and the reason so many are turned off by it, and as a result, fail to understand and appropriatte what's being offered.

As Christians, we must address this problem, and properly, or re-interpret, and re-present, the Christian message, as an all inclusive gift of grace and UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. Jesus would have never wanted himself to stand in the way of his and by extension God's love for everyone, and yet at the same time, he had to be absolutely uncompromising with the fundamental problem of sin and evil, and determined that the best way to handle it was to take it all upon himself. Never would he have wanted such a resolution to operate absent the love expressed through it. Christians who think themselves part of an exclusive club with everyone on the outside damned to hell, are sadly mistaken and in error, and for God's sake this needs to be resolved once and for all!

Btw, nice post IngoApprentice! Starred.

[edit on 1-6-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by IngoApprentice


that is just one of my pet peavs. I don't think any person here really knows the truth, we just think we know. So who are we to tell someone else what to believe. Sure, it's great to have conversation and teach as well as learn, but rather than travel to another country and spend time trying to explain to another group that their ways are wrong and yours are right, that seems a bit presumptuous. I would think that learning what they believe and why would be time better spent. But that is just my opinion. Since God is driving the bus, I think he will make sure it stops at the right streets.

Network Dude, the thoughts you have expressed so eloquently here are the thoughts shared by every Freemason.

There is a bitter irony in this, because Freemasonry only exists because of the failure of many to accept this truth. If everybody felt the way you do, there would be no need for Freemasonry (and its practice of tolerance).

The irony of the whole situation is that Freemasonry is kept alive by those who insist that only their way is right. It is only by preaching how wrong Freemasonry (amongst others) is, that Freemasonry is forced to survive.

Perhaps Omega Point has started to understand this - hence his posting of this thread.

OP, do you think that ALL Masons are up to no good and against religion?

My father is a 5th degree Masonic Mason and is a very religious person has been his entire life, he is also a Vietnam vet and loves his country probably more then anything in this world.
He would fight for his rights and the rights of others.
He would probably fight more for peoples rights more then his own or more then they'd fight for themselves.
When I tell him about these conspiracies and ask him questions it's nothing he has ever herd of.
If he herd about any type of the things that are said the Masons done he would quit and do anything in his power to stop them.

I've been deeply rooted with the Masons and Shriners since I was nine months old, The Shriners saved my life, along with many many others.

I've herd theories where people think that the Masons want a better race of people, stronger so to say so why would they help and heal the lives of so many people, they may help us and keep us from dying When they want to kill us off in the end anyway?

I've met many of them from the most powerful in the Masons, to the newer younger generation and most of them are all religious and have a relationship with God, many have served in the Army for their country.


People read far too much into Masonic Masons, take their text and traditions too literal.

Maybe some Masons are up to no good, but people are assuming it has everything to do with the Masons and not more to do with WHO they are personally.

Don't get me wrong, I do think that there are people in the Masons that are more interested in a different world so to say, but I think it has nothing to do with the Masons and everything to do with THEM who they are and their stance in the political world and nothing more.

I try to respect the opinions of other but it's hard not to take it personal.

I've seen more bad things done by extreme religious groups and people then I've seen done Masons, there's proof of that, where is the un deniable proof that Masons are what people say they are that have to do with the group as a whole and not certain individuals who are involved with politics?

Well, the human being is a temple, and while God has framed it, who other than the individual himself can build his own character, and so if the Masons are simply trying to employ the tools of allegory to better understand and develop the constitution of their being, so as to house more of God, then that's a noble and worthwhile pursuit.

The Christian believes that no one, in their innermost being, is perfect and righteous before God, and that we cannot engineer our own salvation, that we need an intercessory grace from above, which has manifested itself in the person, and the great work of Jesus Christ. The Christian would then see Jesus himself as the "master builder" and the model of perfection, laid onto us through the continual application of faith from which follow naturally, the good works that eminate from love, a love liberated by Christ. It is for freedom that Christ set us free, and perfect freedom is the freedom to love.

If these things are not in any way incompatible with Freemasonry, and if Freemasonry teaches that it is a participative co-creative process of continual progress towards perfection, operating hand in hand WITH God, then I'd say it's all good.

If they are trying to harness power and direct energy and become magicians, then I'd say it's not so good. Not being a Mason I can't say for sure what precisely they are up to however.

If at the core and apex of their system there is a great revelation about God and the human being, then at that point, things could get a little dicey and become perverted and twisted in a Satanic rebellious manner. It's hard to say what might reside in the capstone of their pyramid..

"You will know them by their fruits".

If they are loving and kind hearted, then there's the fruit. If they are without love and very serious and are hard hearted, then that would indicate something about what's going on. Masons themselves, looking around at their fellow Masons ought to be able to tell.. do you see radiant and happy faces?

[edit on 1-6-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by OmegaPoint


I wish you would stop feeding us your brainwashing gunk that you get fed by the lords of masonry and illuminazism. Ultimately your task as a 'puppet' is to be fully brainwashed and to spread these fragmented truths around and appear all great in the eyes of the public domain through charity work. And obviosly you have no idea what your really involved in. You should watch Interview with a Vampire for a quick study. There are countless books out there of people who have the truth as to what your involved in as well.

You can't serve two masters.

If one is truly interested in the truth, regardless of how good you think something is one must go outside those sources and research. You will be amazed at what you find out. It may just change your life and what you thought you knew.

It may just emancipate you. Nothing is as it seems after all and especially huge corporations and control systems.

Interesting, now I'm even starting to empathize with them relative to the ingorant hoards flowing from places like Alex Jones' prison planet..!

I am not a Mason.

reply to post by OmegaPoint


that's how it works, first you start to tolerate us, and the next thing you know, people accuse you of being one of us. You should have stuck with intolerance.

I wish I knew all that these super smart people knew. I mean, I just go to the meetings, and help my brothers out with whatever we are working on. I wonder when they are going to fill me in on all the evil stuff. And I want my Balfamet statue!!

that's how it works, first you start to tolerate us, and the next thing you know, people accuse you of being one of us.

Well, OmegaPoint could easily be mistaken for being a Freemason...

- He believes in unconditional love for our fellow creatures.
- He believes that once should constantly work on strengthening our relationship with the creator.
- He believes that we are all children of God.
- He believes that one should be loving and kind hearted.

If he's not careful, he might even be called a satanist on ATS.

[edit on 2/6/2009 by Saurus]

reply to post by Egyptia


The post was directed towards Masons and people who are not aware of the truth of such organizations. It was a plea for people to get out of their box and do some extensive research so as to truly discover the things that are sheathed in lower level maintenance and exposition.

The levels are designed in such a way so as to keep you all in the dark. Your right you just go to the meetings and help your brothers out. That is how they want it.

You can't go to them for the truth that is why it requires you to look outside your cell. It's not that there are not a great deal of good people that are locked in that prison. In fact that is what they bank on. Anyway, if one desires truth then a seeker he shall become no matter how unsettling the results may be, no matter what that enlightment brings to the table. In the end he is free from the chains that perhaps he was not even aware were molded around his soul.

We are all sojourners after all.
[edit on 2-6-2009 by Egyptia]

[edit on 2-6-2009 by Egyptia]

reply to post by Egyptia

Some quotes from high level masons are listed below. Thought it might be of interest to some. Knowledge is power.

'The Mysteries Of Magic' by Eliphas Levi
"What is more absurd and more impious than to attribute the name of Lucifer to the devil, that is, to personified evil. The intellectual Lucifer is the spirit of intelligence and love; it is the paraclete, it is the Holy Spirit, while the physical Lucifer is the great agent of universal magnetism." page 428

'The Book Of Black Magic' by Arthur Edward Waite 33°
"First Conjuration Addressed to Emperor Lucifer. Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of Rebellious Spirits, I adjure thee to leave thine abode, in what-ever quarter of the world it may be situated and come hither to communicate with me. I command and I conjure thee in the Name of the Mighty Living God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, to appear without noise and without ...." page 244

'The Secret Teaching Of All Ages' by Manly Palmer Hall 33°
"I hereby promise the Great Spirit Lucifuge, Prince of Demons, that each year I will bring unto him a human soul to do with as as it may please him, and in return Lucifuge promises to bestow upon me the treasures of the earth and fulfil my every desire for the length of my natural life. If I fail to bring him each year the offering specified above, then my own soul shall be forfeit to him. Signed.....
[ Invocant signs pact with his own blood ] " page CIV

'The Lost Keys Of Freemasonry' by Manly Palmer Hall 33°
"When The Mason learns that the Key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the Mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply this energy." page 48

'The Secret Doctrine' by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky
"Lucifer represents..Life..Thought..Progress..Civilization..Liberty..Independance..Lucifer is the Logos..the Serpent, the Savior." on pages 171, 225, 255 (Volume II)

"It is Satan who is the God of our planet and the only God." pages 215, 216, 220, 245, 255, 533, (VI)

"The Celestial Virgin which thus becomes the Mother of Gods and Devils at one and the same time; for she is the ever-loving beneficent Deity...but in antiquity and reality Lucifer or Luciferius is the name. Lucifer is divine and terrestial Light, 'the Holy Ghost' and "Satan' at one and the same time." page 539 (Volume?)

Albert Pike 33°
"That which we must say to a crowd is - We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees - The Masonic Religion should be, by alll of us initates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine.

If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay whose deeds prove his cruelty, perdify and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him?
Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also god. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two gods: darkness being necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive.

Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil."
Instructions to the 23 Supreme Councils of the World, July 14, 1889. Recorded by A.C. De La Rive in La Femme et l'Enfant dans la FrancMaconnerie Universelle on page 588

^^^Oh boy, here we go again. Everything you have just posted, my good sir, has been posted and discussed into the ground numerous time on this board. Please come up with something new, it gets extremely old after a while.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by Level_Head]

reply to post by Level_Head


No problem. I just thought that perhaps some might want to have further information. But I think enough has been stated.

reply to post by Egyptia


since you seem to really care about my soul, can you tell me how you think that you could have possibly gained knowledge that I am going to be worshiping Satan in a few years, when I am the one who actually became a mason? I have read all the stuff on www.ihatemasons.com. The last bit you posted is from the Taxil hoax. It seems as if your credibility is shot the minute you claim to have super knowledge of the evils of masonry, yet you could not fact check one of your 5 quotes? You will not know how old this gets for us, but there were about 500 behind you and there will be more than 500 after you who chose to think they know something cuz they saw it on You Tube. I once watched a 30 minute infomercial on how to be a millionaire. you guessed it. Still poor.