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Justices to decide if vets can be honored with cross

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posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:44 PM
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Oh I am so tired of all this political meandering to everyone. Here's the latest news from TheWashingtonPost:


Justices to decide if vets can be honored with cross

Veterans today say this war memorial and others like it across the country that use religious symbols are under attack by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).

"They are not the enemy; they are just dead wrong," says Joe Davis, spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW).

But the civil liberties group says the cross is offensive to Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim and other non-Christian veterans.

washingtontimes.com...

Some of you have been noticing how I have been so very on edge lately. Here is one of the reasons why! For God's Sake It's a memorial! To Veterans! AKA Our most honored citizens who have fought for their country, many dying for it!
The stupidity of people just astounds me! Astounds me.

I see a cross and the first thing that crosses my mind is, "Oh a cross." Not, "That's offensive to me because I do not have a religion. I want it removed."


Are people getting so bored that they are coming up with new ways to ruin lives and the memories of the dead?
Sometimes I just want to slap people. Just because I can.

Admin Edit: added link, changed title to reflect more appropriate link to article.


[edit on 29-5-2009 by Crakeur]




posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by Tentickles

I see a cross and the first thing that crosses my mind is, "Oh a cross." Not, "That's offensive to me because I do not have a religion. I want it removed."


Same here.

I guess we're left to assume the ACLU is now standing up for the rights of Vampires and Demons? Wow. We've come a long way, baby.



Sometimes I just want to slap people. Just because I can.


You are not alone.


(*edit - clarification)






[edit on 5/28/09 by GENERAL EYES]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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I'm offended by the ACLU. Do you suppose they would represent me in a case to get rid of themselves? Just a thought.

Send your donations to the Blaine91555 Legal Fund.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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Firstly, I didn't see a link so I couldn't read the whole article.

Secondly, if we are a multi-religious nation, then why only acknowledge the majority?

I think you have one of two options to ensure fairness.

1) Include all religious symbols (which would make memorials logo-heavy).

or

2) Make life easier and just remove the one.

I could care less about the feelings of anyone offended by religious symbols as Christianity, Scientology, Mormonism, Islam, etc are just about the same amount of silliness from my viewpoint. I'm not Christian, and have no desire to be (far from it), but it doesn't offend me to see one or have one around.

However, as things progress, you majority will have to make some small concessions. Try not to get too worked up about it, it's really not any kind of big deal or even worth the anger.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by KrazyJethro]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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(To the ACLU and the easily offended) RESPECT MY PIMP HAND!



Really though, I am not religious either, but this sort of thing is just silly and one of those often-lamented 'frivolous lawsuits' we're always hearing about. WASTE OF TIME. These people should be going after the feds for bailing out the banks and leaving America laying in it's own excrement. But what do they waste their time and money on? Crap like this. Serious, SERIOUS pimp slap time.

Chrono



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:03 PM
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I am a strong supporter of a person's right to not be offended, by anything .....................while inside their home, with no television, no radio, no publications, no telephone and no internet access, with coverings on all windows.

Where does this lunacy stop?

I would like to know, exactly, how a cross or other symbol can cause a person harm. If I were on a jury, hearing this case, I would have to know what physical injury the complaining party received from simply observing a cross. Absolutely ridiculous.


[edit on 28-5-2009 by WTFover]

[edit on 28-5-2009 by WTFover]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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I hear offensive things all day long. But I don't want the easy road out. I either deal with the problem if it is directed at me, or I ignore it. Most offensive things on this planet are offensive because they are ignorant in nature, I don't get angry at ignorance I pity it. Now everyone just have a beer and shut the help up with the whining!

[edit on 28-5-2009 by projectvxn]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by WTFover
 


I could only see the cross accidentally falling on someone. I do believe the memorial hasnt been damaged. Ever.

"You have crushed my leg and I am deeply offended by this! Where's my lawyer!?"

[edit on 5/28/2009 by Tentickles]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:07 PM
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It offends me that they are offended. I am a non-christian veteran and the cross for a gravemarker does not bother me. I have no respect for a cross as a christian symbol, but I do when it is used as a gravemarker for a soldier. I do not care if they plant a cross over my head when I am dead and gone, although I hope science is able to learn from me instead.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by Tentickles
 


It should be really up to the veterans. In most places, I would say a cross is in-appropriate. However in a memorial it's acceptable.


I dislike the ACLU these days. They yield to Obama because he's a democrat. They lost me when I read their second ammendment position. If they want to defend the constitution, then they should defend ALL of it. Not just what they pick and choose to defend. And since DC Heller, they don't have a choice but to accept the right to bear arms as anything but what it is.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by KrazyJethro
 


Good attitude


Perhaps people should stop complaining, realize symbols can not harm them and let others put up whatever they wish? Nah, never happen. That would be civilized.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by Miraj
 


ACLU, DNC - same same. There are no Moderates or Conservatives involved with the ACLU. If your in NAMBLA and get off raping little boys they are on your side, otherwise?



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by Miraj
It should be really up to the veterans. In most places, I would say a cross is in-appropriate. However in a memorial it's acceptable.


Agreed.

Maybe one day we can live in a world where symbols don't have so much association with political/religious ideologies as they do now...but man, dissolving the beliefs of the illiterate is going to be one hell of a long road.




posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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I'm not religious myself, but I could care less about a cross at a war memorial. Besides, aren't the majority of the people who support war Christian? War = Christian = Cross, seems fitting.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:42 PM
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Some people just aren't happy unless they have something to gripe about. What miserable humans they must be. Thank God for them they have a like-minded organization to help spread the misery. They're offensive.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:48 PM
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Maybe the ACLU should take a reading course...


It is "Freedom OF Religion".. Not FROM

What a moron organization...

They are fairly insidious also, they routinely take a "token" case that defends something conservative so that if called on it, they can throw it in our faces...

Semper



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 11:01 PM
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I know that if a memorial was placed in my honor for the sacrifices I have made, I would be deeply offended if someone put a religious symbol for a religious sect that I did not subscribe to on it.

To place a religious symbol of any one group on a memorial commemorating the sacrifices of many religious groups is showing favoritism to one religion over another.

And those families who are Jewish, Muslim, Hindi, Pagan, Buddhist, Jainist, Shinto, Confuscian, Platonists, Pythagorean, Hermetic, Khemetic Orthodox, etc., to place a cross on a memorial to symbolize the loss of their children who served and died is horribly and deeply offensive and is a thinly veiled attempt to rob them of their child's service, sacrifice, and their family's loss.

The fact of the matter is that in a U.S. Army survey taken in 1994, some 80 percent of the soldiers polled stated that they believed in God and had a specific religious preference. More than 100 religious denominations and faith groups were represented among soldiers.

Is it fair to tarnish the memory of the 20% of veterans who served who do not have a religious belief?

Is it fair to belittle the sacrifice that those belonging to the other 99 religious denominations that veterans belong to?

What gives a Christian Veteran a right to make their religion so all important that they would so blatantly disregard, spit and trample on the beliefs of the men and women they served with who made the same sacrifice that they did?

This is not a Christian Nation. These soldiers were not Christian soldiers. The wars these veterans fought were not Christian crusades.

Therefore, Christian Religious Symbols have no right representing a memorial to men and women of many religious (and non-religious) beliefs who fought to protect the religious freedom and diversity that make America.

Use a modicum of common sense people! Replace the Christian Cross with the American Flag or the Bald Eagle...a symbol that all of these men and women, regardless of religious belief, stood for!

[edit on 28-5-2009 by fraterormus]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 11:04 PM
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Is it fair to belittle the sacrifice that those belonging to the other 99 religious denominations that veterans belong to?


So how is me having a cross over my grave, "belittling" anyone else?

I would really like to hear that explained to me...

Semper



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 11:06 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555

Good attitude


I try? Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not.


Perhaps people should stop complaining, realize symbols can not harm them and let others put up whatever they wish? Nah, never happen. That would be civilized.


True, they can not harm anyone. I'd even go a step further and say that they mean different things to different people so it's existence or it's destruction does nothing to increase or lessen it's respective meaning.

This is the reason I don't much care if people burn the flag or put up crosses.

In order for people to stop complaining, they would have to have a much harder life, and even then we'd have to collect half of the tongues to gain any peace.

We must live in a pretty cool country if this is the kind of stuff people have to spend money and resources on.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 11:14 PM
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Originally posted by semperfortis

Is it fair to belittle the sacrifice that those belonging to the other 99 religious denominations that veterans belong to?


So how is me having a cross over my grave, "belittling" anyone else?

I would really like to hear that explained to me...

Semper


This is not talking about individual graves. Each soldier may choose the symbol they are buried beneath (at least now days, thanks to that awful ACLU). Christian soldiers may still be buried beneath a Christian Cross, just as Jewish soldiers may be buried beneath a Magen David, and Pagan soldiers may be buried beneath a Pentagram.

This article and the fight the ACLU has is the practice of placing Christian Crosses on Memorials and Monuments that are dedicated in the memory of *ALL* soldiers. This means memorials like the The Wall at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, or the USS Arizona Memorial to those that served and died during the attack on Pearl Harbor.

There is a big distinction between commemorating an individual and commemorating a group.

If ever someone tried to take away an individual's right to be buried beneath the religious symbol of their choice, I'd be fighting right there with you to allow Christians to be buried with a Christian Cross on their graves or tombs, even though I am not a Christian myself.

However, on a group memorial to commemorate the memory of a large group of diverse veterans representing many different religious views, it is absolutely wrong to trivialize the sacrifice of all those that served to promote the false superiority of the Christian religion over all others. It is not only offensive but downright disrespectful to those that died so that you could be free to follow Christianity, even though they were Jewish, Muslim, Hindi, Pagan, Buddhist, Jainist, Shinto, Confuscian, Platonists, Pythagorean, Hermetic, Khemetic Orthodox, etc.




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