Christians battle each other over evolution

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by schrodingers dog

 

Can one be a Christian and accept evolution? The answer, as far as the Discovery Institute is concerned, is a resounding: No.

If someone loves Jesus and has accepted Him as their savior, then they are Christians, IMO. I absolutely do not accept evolution on the complete level as discovered by Darwin or defined by Darwinism because that is not what the evidence shows but I can see that it happens on some levels and that does not conflict with the Bible.

Hmm.. all I see is yet another "christian" hypocrite picking and choosing what suits them. Interpreting from the bible and following the bits that suit them. As in you don't stone people to death for certain things or sacrifice animals when needed, etc. You either believe the word of god or you don't, but every christian I have ever known gets to have their cake and eat it too. At least some have awoken and this trend is a great thing for humanity: richarddawkins.net...

reply to post by contemplator


Funny to see another extremist complaining about another choosing not to be..... But in all seriousness, you chastise "Religion" for being dogmatic, yet when they attempt to move forward with scientific knowledge you then complain more, screaming about how they want to "have their cake and eat it too". It makes it obvious what the real problem is and where it lies. Not with them *or in this case, Ashley*.

[edit on 29-5-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by AshleyD


Sadly, the fact many Christian's don't hold your opinion is why we still have these conversations. The minister at the largest church in my hometown constantly preaches how Catholics aren't true Christians, Muslims are devil worshipers, and that evolution is leading us to hell.

reply to post by FSBlueApocalypse


There is something to be said for ignoring "the fool".

reply to post by contemplator


I see your thread in the BBQ forum so I won't be expending too much energy on this reply.

Not so much as picking and choosing inasmuch as I'm saying 'I don't know.' That's pretty honest. Being that I do not read Hebrew, I do not know if it is six literal days or six metaphorical days. Or if the creation days/eras consisted of things 'poofing' into existence or sprouting into existence through mutation. There appears to be a vast time Gap in early Genesis that alludes to an older creation. Then the terminology varies between things (inanimate) being spoken into existence instantly and other things being formed into existence from things previously existing (biological).

I fully except evolution on the micro scale in terms of mutations and adaptations. I have some severe issues with macro on a scientific end due to and I absolutely do not believe every single organism on the planet has a common single cell ancestor or that we are all related because that is not what the evidence points to. And I believe man was created independently.

What it all comes down to and what I do know is God did it. One day I look forward to finding out how for certain.

And it would be off topic to get into your stoning argument but in a nutshell that is dealing with hermeneutics and some theology. Which, judging by your BBQ thread you certainly wouldn't be interested in hearing.

[edit on 5/29/2009 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by AshleyD

Not so much as picking and choosing inasmuch as I'm saying 'I don't know.'

cont...

What it all comes down to and what I do know is God did it.

I think this is where a lot of folk get confused ... not me tough.

There is a fundamental difference between learned knowledge and inner knowledge.

This is often lost in these conversations, sometimes by omission and other times by those on either side who wish to confuse the issue for their own ends.

Truth is, inner knowledge doesn't have to be reconciled with learned knowledge.

For example I "know" that I love my wife and it isn't subject to empirical or scientific evidence. Though I suspect she would probably disagree with me in this regard. That is knowledge that I have learned.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Basically this is a dispute between those who think that "dinosaur fossils were put on earth by God in order to test our faith," and those who see no heresy in reconciling their faith with reason and scientific knowledge.

Dinosaur fossils put on Earth to test our faith?

Man, that is downright hilarious. God does not have so much free time.

Originally posted by contemplator
Hmm.. all I see is yet another "christian" hypocrite picking and choosing what suits them. Interpreting from the bible and following the bits that suit them. As in you don't stone people to death for certain things or sacrifice animals when needed, etc. You either believe the word of god or you don't, but every christian I have ever known gets to have their cake and eat it too. At least some have awoken and this trend is a great thing for humanity: richarddawkins.net...

Exactly. I agree with you. That is what I've been seeing so far, as well.

Whenever new scientific discoveries are made and trends and proof is found, many Christians will say, "Well, the Bible DID say so and so" and they will reinterpret what's inside to fit with whatever's been discovered. So, in essence, if aliens were found, "God created aliens just like us" or "Aliens have been given to us to test our faith" or the like.

It's VERY clear that what's in the Bible can be easily reinterpreted for individual benefits.

reply to post by KarlG

Whenever new scientific discoveries are made and trends and proof is found, many Christians will say, "Well, the Bible DID say so and so" and they will reinterpret what's inside to fit with whatever's been discovered. So, in essence, if aliens were found, "God created aliens just like us" or "Aliens have been given to us to test our faith" or the like.

I think there is good reasons for this. For one the Bible can be very vague at times and requires one to fill in the blanks in places. Another reason is the age and language used in the Bible. It is not exactly spoken as people speak today and originally scribed in Hebrew, not exactly english.

I find these sort of responses rather hypocritical. As evolution and science in general constantly changes with new discoveries and it is perfectly okay apparently.

Genisis for example explains our creation in a few sentences. Now there is alot of interpretation required there to understand it or fill in the missing links if you will. So if further study or even science can help with that interpretation I don't see why there is an issue.

I think we are on the brink of a major discovery that will set the record straight, you will see it soon.

Evolution is in perfect order with a belief in God.

God's system is based on you not knowing for sure if He is there or not. He provides tests of faith throughout your life. What you believe and do shows God how much you love Him. For example, let's look at Deuteronomy 13:1-3:

"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him and cleave unto him."

We see from the above teaching that (1) the prophet (sub scientist) was accurate in what he said (wonder) because he proved it (came to pass). We also know that (2) the prophet (sub scientist) is suggesting by his wonder (evolution) proves that God did not make the world like the Bible says (let us go after other gods, which thou has not known, and let us serve them --- aka let us follow after evolution, which is not in the Bible, and do according to its teaching and direction).

What happens when you believe evolution and follow it? Well, you don't pass the love test. God has told you the truth, and you follow something else. Adam and Eve had the same problem. Satan, via the serpent, basically called God a liar by stating that Eve would not die, as God said. Eve chose to believe Satan, which showed that she loved Satan more than God.

There are many indications in the Bible that the world was created quickly, as in 6 days quickly. However, you are free to believe. Believe whatever "prophet" you wish to follow. God does not put a restriction on belief. In fact, that is the very reason he put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the garden, to see if we would love and believe God, or follow our own ways. So, there you have it.

Let's take a look. I'm sure you have seen the small dot in space that is earth. Consider the heavens. When you look skyward at night, try as you might, you will never see a planet as small as Earth. It takes sophisticated equipment to do so. Well, now consider how small that Earth-sized object is in space. Then consider that, of all the knowledge out there, you might know less than 1% of everything. That leaves 99% that you do not know. Consider the possibility that maybe God made the universe. If He did, don't you suppose he could build a planet Earth with the capability for you to believe either way? I mean, if He were to eliminate the fossil record, eliminate anything that can be age-dated past 6000 years, eliminate any old records of human habitation, or in other words anything that could possibly make you believe that this world is older than 6000 years, you would have to believe it was 6000 years old. Right? But He didn't, because He wants to leave you a choice: believe Him, or believe the science. It's about love.
God's love. His love for you, and your love for Him. It always was, and always will be about love.

He leaves you a little hint, tho. In the New Testament, there is the miracle at Cana. A curious verse says "This is the first miracle that Jesus did." I wondered about that verse, and asked God why He put that verse there. I was given to understand after I asked, and the meaning of the verse is this:
God created the Earth in 6 days. You see, Jesus (See John 1) created all things in the beginning, without Him nothing was made that was made. That means He created everything in Genesis, which took 6 days. In the miracle at Cana, he turned 6 waterpots of water into wine, instantly, and aged. He created the Earth aged, too. Otherwise, Adam would not have had food from the trees, for example. The name of the town, Cana, means "to create, build." Take it for what you will, but as you can see, for a Christian, it's God's reassurance that this creation we live in was created instantly, and aged.

So, you see, evolution is scientific evidence. Believe what you wish, and God will see if you love Him and follow Him, or not.

It's up to you.