Freedom for Sinners

I don't even know where to start with this thread.

When I was a young child, I went to various churches. My Mother being raised Catholic and my Father being from the deep south somewhat necessitated an environment that many religious folks are familiar with.

I also grew up in a small town environment where there was only one High School and Junior High, and the town in and of itself tended to lean towards a religious bent.

Which does not at all explain where the hell I came from whatsoever; I am not a product of my environment as much as I am a product of my experiences and interchanges with that environment. My history is composed of being local child star on morning radio as well as a general odd-person-out at school. I had peers and people whom I associated with, but few if any I would dub friends beyond mere acquaintance. Even fewer still did I invest time into.

Yet even my friends had a modestly conservative, religious bent to their personalities.

One could even make argument (As I have before) that I myself am quite a religious person in my own rights; I am a great respecter of *A* Jesus Christ (A version which most members of the established church refer to as Blasphemously inaccurate).

If all of this seems rambling, it is because it is in a sense... I am at a loss of how to present myself in this case, so I want to give reference to who I grew up as before I continue with the inflammatory words.

Christians. Moralists. People of Divinity.

Please stop.

Please stop persecuting, accusing, plotting, manipulating and twisting the world to punish sinners.

Please stop pretending that it is your place to right wrongs and fix the wayward.

Please, for the love of god, stop Trying to be helpful; because you're not.

Practically none of you ARE helpful. Practically all of you are HURTFUL.

Leave Sinners alone. Let them sin. Let them live.

You all terrify me. You all stir hatred in me, which is a very hard thing to do... Hatred for your need to Legislate morality, your need to define what is good and what is evil. Your need to put God into the lives of every lawmaker from sea to shining sea.

Please. For the Love. Of God. STOP.

Why is this Okay?

You want things like this to be wrong, you want people to know what evil is by punishing them for what you personally feel.

None of you can make an argument to defend this that does not involve "RIGHT" "MORAL" "FEELING" or "PERSONAL VIEWS".

Not one of you has ever made an argument to support the persecution of sexual deviants and sinners of all stripes that did not in some way seek to FORCE God upon them through legal means or through public shaming.

I dare any of you to justify condemning a person to prison and a life of punishment and hatred by the public without inciting your moral justifications.

What I expect to be a response to this thread is Accusations being thrown at me or others like me who care for the sinners and want their sins to be ALLOWED.

I expect people to claim that thinking something leads to doing something.

I expect people to claim it is God's will that you interfere and try to fix or punish other human beings.

What I don't expect from this thread...

Is any sort of rational reason why THIS IS OKAY.

I expect hatred, I expect self righteousness, and I expect Moral Absolutists to come in spewing their vomitous vitrioul of values inborn.

In short, I *EXPECT* ignorance as a response...

And I'll admit my own guilt. I'll admit that I am full of bile, piss and vinegar myself. So very rarely do I get this angry, this upset over something.

I demand freedom for sinners. I demand they be allowed to sin, I demand that their sins be their own business and for all of you to stop pretending as if you know what is best for anyone else but yourself.

I don't even have confidence you know what is best for YOU, why should you possibly know what others deserve?

To the Sinners.... I ask this; Stop being placid. Stop allowing this to happen. Stop sitting by while "The worst" of you are turned into non-humans... because you'll be next, I promise you on my blood that when they are finished, you will be the next person they are after.

The S&M people. The Furries. The Snuff readers, the Warped and Degenerate sexual deviants of the world.

You think it'll end with Pedophiles and people who like Loli porn from Japan? It won't ever stop.

It never has in the past.... it has marched on with no consideration but for what is "MORAL" and "RIGHT" in the eyes of those who are so self-absorbed that they refuse to recognize differences between cultures, time periods and civilizations.

This is a true conspiracy; a conspiracy to pacify the different and destroy free choice to live your life and take pleasure from living. To shame and humiliate everyone into conformity and uniformity, as one unthinking mind in obedience to the plain and the pleasant.

To each his own.

May you enjoy and revel in your sin, I'm not your judge, jury, nor executioner in the slightest.

I will continue to live my life in my way without trampling over your party.

Also, I feel the need to star and flag this, as I'm curious to see how any responses of similar or differing viewpoints is going to play out.

reply to post by GuiltyByDesign


It's quite possible I and my response are due to a subset of people, though I am certain I will be taken wrongly by more than just they.

I'm Baptist myself, but I'm rather used to being around those who feel like you do, to differing degrees.

Instinctually, at first read, your post did anger me and my Christian underpinnings. As well as my conservative leanings.

Then I re-read it from a detached and logical perspective. Which birthed the posts above. Kneejerk reactions are almost always wrong, so I'm rather glad I chose to look at this with a more analytic eye.

Now I shall stand back and watch this thread develop.

I believe we are all responsible for our own actions. Also, that where there are choices there are consequences. If one is willing to do the time, then do the crime!

Unfortunately, those who preach are often the very last ones that should throw the stones. But I do believe in that old saying; "What goes around, comes around"...Karma.

I don't think we do to well as judges. Our lives often judge us enough, and many of us carry great weight for our choices, and the last thing that is needed is self-righteous judgment.

While myself an Atheist,ive always found the pyschology behind religion quite fascinating.Not to be rude,but even most moderate Christians sound rather insane to me.Copy and pasting bible quotes,giving it the Lord God almighty and Jesus Christ blah blah woof woof.But i do find it fascinating how insane it is,yet when it comes to everything else in daily life they are pretty sane.Its like an Off On button where they shut down their brain for a while and regurgitate meaningless nonsense.Anyway we are all human and all have our faults,whether it be religion or numerous other things.Was that off topic?

I'm not the type that likes making quick, knee jerk posts either.

I joke around with my friends that I'm a "recovering Catholic"... although I am still pretty new to reading the Bible. (A veiled Cath joke... hehe). The point is, I believe in Jesus Christ having died on my behalf. I believe that there is so much to be learned from His words.

That said, I see the point of the OP, as well as (I suspect) some of the motivating cause behind the thread.

I found something through my readings over the years that I really liked to define myself. Maybe it will help you come to grips with the fact that people sin, zealots attempt to punish those sins zealously, prosilityzers don't know how to give up, etc. See if you like it, if you've not yet seen it...

www.geocities.com...

The point is, the world comes in all different flavors. I think the finest value I've learned (first) from Christ is Golden Rule... It's been reinforced over the years.

I am learning from my non secular readings that God has chosen a path for us. My "job" is to worry about my own actions, and whether those actions fall in line with my morals.

Nearly all of us, if we're (capable of being) honest with ourselves, know "right" from "wrong". Likewise nearly all of us try to only act in their concept of "right". I think therin lies your issue, neh?

God will judge the job I've done. That's where I'm at. Thanks for the thoughtful OP.

[edit on 28/5/09 by cbianchi513]

I think that as humans, regardless of ones belief, we are all on some level judgemental...its not right, but its the truth.
I believe what I believe and do not try and make anyone believe as I do. There are those that do and I don't like it either. To each his own I say...I have some very good friends that are gay...do I care...NO...they are wonderful people and I love them... I feel that what others choose to do is none of my business.

reply to post by TheColdDragon


I'm usually pretty bitter towards Christians (and religion in general) but I like you. I have a strong distaste for anyone that wants to just slam their religion in my face, it's why I so often ridicule those same people.


I'd rather just not hear it from them. If they want to preach to me, I sure as hell will preach to them.

reply to post by Greenize


We are judgemental for a reason. It's efficient. It may not be accurate, but it works. If you meet someone new, on a primal level you NEED to know; Are they from an enemy tribe? Are they one of me, that I can trust?

It's how racism develops.

reply to post by Miraj

We are judgemental for a reason. It's efficient. It may not be accurate, but it works. If you meet someone new, on a primal level you NEED to know; Are they from an enemy tribe? Are they one of me, that I can trust?

Yes, this is exactly right. We need to make judgments to be able to tell what is healthy for us or not. Are we safe with this person, or not.

When it becomes a reason to throw self-righteous words at someone, this then is a different story.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by Miraj

 

We are judgemental for a reason. It's efficient. It may not be accurate, but it works. If you meet someone new, on a primal level you NEED to know; Are they from an enemy tribe? Are they one of me, that I can trust?

Yes, this is exactly right. We need to make judgments to be able to tell what is healthy for us or not. Are we safe with this person, or not.

When it becomes a reason to throw self-righteous words at someone, this then is a different story.

I agree. In a sense it's just sort of feeding the caveman inside them. It gives them more priorities to judge, but it's a bad way to judge because whether the person is a christian or not doesn't determine if they are safe to be around.

To the OP:

This thread is eseentially about manga porn, right?

Why have you not made this apparent apart from in the links you provided?

Bizarre...

reply to post by Roark


You are correct.... this thread happened because a man was condemned to prison for owning something that is very common in Japan... but we in the morally repugnant west consider illegal because of some fear that it will cause Pedophiles to go on rampant raping sprees.

This thread happened because a prime example of the death of free speech, here, where someone buys an illicit COMIC BOOK and then is punished for owning child pornography because some morally superior jackhole in congress decided that anything ambiguously disgusting to someone of "Moral uprightness" should be considered a crime against society.

This thread happened because we can't tolerate people sinning and not HURTING anyone, we need to make sure that their sin is punished! Again and again and for their entire life by slapping their name on a list and moulding them into some reject of society, making them hated and unwanted by everyone because they happened to like looking at cartoon depictions of little girls being violated by tentacle monsters or werewolves.

Because some people will never stop until anyone who has a different idea of what is socially acceptable is utterly and completely destroyed without any hope of ever being considered a human.

This is about the rape of freedom, it is about the Destruction of individualism, it is about the slaughter of free speech and the persecution of people who have never harmed anyone in their life.... but have somehow raped the sensibilities of the self-righteous.

Double post.

[edit on 29-5-2009 by TheColdDragon]

reply to post by TheColdDragon


What most 'moral' people fail to grasp is that freedom is a double-edged sword. It HAS to be. Freedom is letting EVERYONE, even those you absolutely cannot stand or agree with, have equal rights as long as they do not PHYSICALLY harm you.

I abhor those manga comics. However, this is a free, or supposedly free society. As such, I choose to stay far, far away from such things. I do not agree at all with anything in those comics, but guess what?

According to the Constitution, they have as much right to be printed and viewed by whomever as I do to worship God and read my Bible.

True story, however inconvienent as it may be.

We get into the realm of sexual addiction and this alters things. Of course, one would need to have an understanding of this addiction in order to make a judgment.

All addiction has; early, middle and late stages. There are red flags indicating whether someone has an issue with it or not.

Some may be able to view such items and it won't set them up to explore it in the real world, while others; this may be all they need to trigger them to do this in reality.

Sinners is a broad term. There are character defects and there are criminal actions. The line may be a narrow one at times!

What happened to Conspiracy in Religion? Why is this just religious/atheist themed rants now?

whats wrong with you i love those mangas # is just kinky as hell