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Japan Moon Mission KAGUYA (SELENE) not releasing HD images of far side of the moon

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posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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I found a very good article on the SELENE (KAGUYA) Terrain Camera from the 40th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference (2009).

www.lpi.usra.edu...


Most image data was acquired by TC in sequential revolutions of SELENE (interval of about 2 hours) and thus was easily superposed with sequential overlapped image data to yield large mosaicked data. Unobserved areas that totaled less than 5% of the whole surface of the Moon and are planned to be observed in the extended-mission pe-riod. The TC is currently working very well after the end of the nominal-mission period. No defective pix-els have been found so far.


Less than 5% not observed during the mission. No defective pixels.


The TC stereoscop-ic and monoscopic observation covered almost the entire surface of the Moon including high latitudes (> ± 20°) and the far side of the Moon that previously lacked high-resolution image data [3]. Scientifically important analyses have been conducted for lunar polar regions and far-side regions based on the TC data.



Some TC data products (e.g., TC mosaicked map products based on TC monoscopic observation under lower solar eleva-tion angle conditions and TC ortho/DTM scene data) will be released via the SELENE level-2 data release system one year after the end of the nominal-mission period (November 2008).


November 2009 it is. Hopefully the object is not part of the 5% unobserved.




posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


"Very interesting indeed. Now can you explain to me how JAXA managed that? "From the same angle"? When their ship is in high orbit and the Apollo image was taken on the ground? No one smell fish?"

No i can understand that they maybe can alter the TC (Terran Camera) angle somehow and that this picture is taken in a 100km orbit with a resolution of 10m/pixel.

Or, you dont agree ? Thanks for all the information in this thread by the way, a true treasure for anyone interested in past, present and future Moon and Mars mission and also earth satellite data. Special kudos to Zorgon, you really rock.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by Erasurehead
November 2009 it is. Hopefully the object is not part of the 5% unobserved.

It should not be, those 5% are probably at the poles.

Usually the orbits are not really polar orbits, so a small area around the poles may be left out of the photos.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by reugen
No i can understand that they maybe can alter the TC (Terran Camera) angle somehow and that this picture is taken in a 100km orbit with a resolution of 10m/pixel.

The cameras are, usually, fixed, and they also have a fixed magnification, so a camera that has a resolution of 10 metres per pixel at an altitude of 100 km has a resolution of 1 metre per pixel at an altitude of 10 km.

That image that copies the Apollo photo is a computer generated image, not a photo.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


Ok, i scanned the thread again and saw the post that explained how the 3d image was generated using the stereo TC. Thanks for info but admit, it sucks to have to view computer generated material when they have sent such complex and expensive equipment to the moon and it has been orbiting the moon since fall 2007. At least i am really disappointed, i expected a lot more. Hope goes to NASA LRO (Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter) that will launch 17 june, 2009, hopefully they will do the right thing this time.


jra

posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by reugen
Its #ing unbeliavable, JAXA intitiate a multi billion dollar project on par with the Apollo Mission and fit the orbiter with a camera that has a laughable resolution compared to low earth spy satellites (5cm - 20cm per pixel resolution). THIS IS A 2007-2009 MISSION.


Multi billion dollar project? I don't think so. JAXA's entire budget is $2.15 Billion USD. Also, Kaguya is sometimes referred to as being "the largest lunar mission since the Apollo program", which is probably true, but saying it's on par with the Apollo missions is very wrong.

And how can you compare a spy satellite with Kaguya? Spy satellites tend to be huge in size (generally about the size of Hubble) and they carry mirrors that are about 2m - 3m in diameter. Kaguya isn't even half the size of Hubble. How would you even expect it to be able compete with the imaging abilities of a spy satellite? Those are some unrealistic expectations.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by reugen
At least i am really disappointed, i expected a lot more.

I think the problem is that people do not really see what are the missions' objectives and start thinking about their own expectations.

The truth is that the missions are thought by someone that most probably has a different view of things. I have seen it many times with people that think that the Mars rovers were sent there to look for life or water, but they were sent there to study the geology of those areas and try to understand the geological processes that created Mars as we see it today.

Many of Kaguya's instruments are really much better than previous ones used for the same purpose (the altimeter, the spectrometers, the sub-surface radar), but the best resolution of the cameras is the same as the resolution from Clementine's high resolution photos, the difference being the sharpness of Kaguya's images, the number of high resolution photos and the 3D aspect.

So, they were not trying to photograph the whole Moon in very high resolution, their objectives were not that.

PS: I am also awaiting the first images from the next Moon mission, Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, those should be good enough.



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by ArMaP
I think the problem is that people do not really see what are the missions' objectives and start thinking about their own expectations.


Except that they touted the High Definition TV aspect of the mission... so it is reasonable to expect the general public to be disappointed. Most of us can go to the local electronic store and see what HD TV looks like... and what JAXA showed us... that ain't it


And the moon looks too plastic in those images anyway... with barely recognizable features



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 12:12 AM
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What I find interesting is that when we look at a solar eclipse from Earth, the moon is just the right size to cover the sun and give us a diamond ring effect when the sun starts to reappear.. This is something most of us have seen...

But how is that possible when you are on the moon that the Earth just exactlt covers the sun so you get the same diamond ring effect?

Pretty picture to be sure... but





Here is a sequence





Video link is here

space.jaxa.jp...




[edit on 9-6-2009 by zorgon]



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon





Hey Zorgon,

Are these the ones they use for the MirCorp Mini-stations?


*Maybe they don't burn these things up over the ocean afterall....


jra

posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
Most of us can go to the local electronic store and see what HD TV looks like... and what JAXA showed us... that ain't it


That's because the HDTV camera's are not publicly funded, but are owned by NHK (Japan Broadcasting Corporation) and they share the copyright of the footage with JAXA. The full 1080p resolution video is made available free of charge to schools and museums (in Japan at least), so you'll probably have to buy it if you want to see it at the full resolution. Although I find the footage that's available on the web at 720p to be extremely impressive.


And the moon looks too plastic in those images anyway... with barely recognizable features


Maybe I haven't seen the same videos you have, but I don't think it looks plastic at all. And what features do you find barely recognizable? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that.


But how is that possible when you are on the moon that the Earth just exactlt covers the sun so you get the same diamond ring effect?


It's the Earth's atmosphere that scatters the light which creates the ring. www.nhk.or.jp...



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by jra so you'll probably have to buy it if you want to see it at the full resolution.


Buy it? With all the fuss ATSers make about people charging for the 'truth, now I have to pay money to see the 'good stuff'? Well your right... I just tried getting a photo from NASA in high res and was told I could order it through their only outlet for a fee. Bay Area Labs a private company. I am waiting for a price quote as we speak. So much for "All NASA pictures are available FREE" Yeah they are... low res web stuff... gotta shell out bucks for the good stuff


And on top of that they won't send you some... like Apollo 15 reel 83. For all practical purposes, this magazine was not known to even exist until the LPI archive out of the blue published all 17 frames in their online Apollo Image Atlas - albeit in 450x450 "large thumbnail" versions only. None of these images is available anywhere in higher resolution




Although I find the footage that's available on the web at 720p to be extremely impressive.


Well that's fine for you if you like videos of plaster models
Some of us have higher standards



.


[edit on 9-6-2009 by zorgon]



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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KAGUYA is no more..

KAGUYA was descended to the 50km altitude from February 1, 2009 and then was descended again to 10-30km in Lower altitude (Perilune) from April 16, 2009. Finally, KAGUYA was impacted to the south-east of near side of the Moon on June 10, 2009 (GMT).

Impact location
ENear side, E80.4, S65.5

www.kaguya.jaxa.jp...



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by Erasurehead
 


So young and already a martyr to the science.


And how could it keep an orbit of 10-30 km since April 16 with the supposed gravity anomalies, shouldn't it be impossible to keep orbiting at such low altitude with those affecting it?


PS: it would be interesting if they filmed the crash!



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by mf_luder
What they need to do is fly around to the front side and take about 1000000 pics of the lunar lander and the American flag so all these idiots will shut up about how the US never landed up there.


Aye Aye "Captain"


Errrrr only one thing...

How do we take a picture of something that isn't there?



Your resort to a childish attack on a title for a collaborative fiction thread speaks volumes about your intelligence level.

1) For the "but our satellites can see this crowd"... those satellites are in immediate Earth orbit. They can see that well to the surface of the Earth, not the surface of the lunar body which is - oh - 238,857 miles or so? The reason your government hasn't sent that type of satellite to the moon is because there hasn't been a reason to have to 'prove' the landings because there is so much physical and scientific evidence existing, you and people like you are in the sad minority.

2) I have a friend who worked at NASA for two years as part of his degree program. There are mirrors up there they use to bounce lasers off of to test the degree the moon is slipping away from the Earth every year and orbit around the sun. End of discussion.

3) The very evidence you use to attempt to debunk the entire landing can be used to prove the landing. The pictures, the lack of stars in some of the pictures - the "size of the Earth" argument..... let me ask - when you were up on the moon the last time - was the Earth bigger or smaller on the horizon than in the picture?! Just curious.

I had a discussion with a scientist who works up at Kitt Peak in Arizona while I was on leave recently. He doesn't work for the government and isn't part of the "big bad cover up the moon landings" gang. He explained that in order for our largest telescopes - and well, any telescope really - to function, it has to be able to suck in a certain amount of light. Currently, the largest telescope on Earth cannot see something the size of a flag or a small LEM on the surface of the moon, which again is what - 238,857 miles or so? He explained in order for one large enough to see it to be built, it would cost billions of dollars. Currently, aside from Bill Gates and a few others - who on Earth has that kind of money to build such a telescope?

The government.

Catch-22.

You can't prove we didn't land up there. Sorry. End of game.

I can't prove we did.

But I'm more inclined to believe my personal friends who've worked in the program than someone who resorts to childish insults on an anonymous forum online.

So.

Grow the hell up. Then try to convince people your backwards views are legitimate.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by mf_luder
You can't prove we didn't land up there. Sorry. End of game.

I can't prove we did.


Exactly the reason we question all things NASA - they lie and cover up everything they should be telling us all.

These reflectors you speak of - any idea where we can see an image from Earth looking to the moon with a nice shiny reflector - or are they non reflective reflectors (which would be in NASAs style)


Don't be so mad we're looking for the truth - you obviously know it all ... so why would you come here to rant about us wackos? Doesn't that bring you down to our level?


wZn



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow
 


I never said I knew it all.

But the same logic applies to what I just said.

We don't have telescopes able to see the landers and the flag - how could you procure a shot of the mirrors without it?

My friend was present during the experiments with the lasers they aimed up there.

I wasn't.

My apologies if I come off mad or strong against all of you non-believers.

[edit on 15-6-2009 by mf_luder]



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by mf_luder
 


But don't you think it's convenient they wont show us a photo of anything they have put on the moon (NASA) - flags, vehicles, ex parts, reflectors..ANYTHING?

I think it's odd they don't show anything - nor the Japanese or Indian explorers saw anything NASA left there...why? Would it not be beneficial to show us some remains of the last Earthling that left something there not only for nostalgia, but to shut people like zorgon up? Do you think zorgon or any moonies would be so vigilant in their postings if they showed us simply what they left up there?

Sooner or later you may come to a question why so many people are questions on the moon - because they are never answered. Have you read NASA reports that even state they don't understand some things up on the moon? They are there...

from George H Leonard's book 'Somebody Else Is On The Moon'

"Carl Sagan had postulated that a layer of carbonized matter could be below the surface of the Moon. Moore and Wilkins had said it was possible that a form of life totally different from anything we know could be on the Moon; and they meant indigenous life"

This is one of many statements from the leading guys that worked for NASA...why is it so unbelievable to think this if they did? After all they are the chosen elite to talk about the moon?

If you keep your mind open - you may learn something!

wZn



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by mf_luder
2) I have a friend who worked at NASA for two years as part of his degree program. There are mirrors up there they use to bounce lasers off of to test the degree the moon is slipping away from the Earth every year and orbit around the sun. End of discussion.


I have a friend also... he was zapping the moon with a laser also... seems he found Lunokhod 1


Lunokhod 1 has been MIA since 1971. But maybe not anymore, the Russian Luna 17 carrying the rover landed just outside Sinus Iridum, where I captured this bright green flash.

Well...not just outside, about 200km away.







Apache Point Observatory



Doesn't prove Apollo was there though, might have been the secret space corps stuck a few mirrors up there






.

[edit on 15-6-2009 by zorgon]



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


Well I'll be darned - that's a 1st for me thanks for that.

So can we achieve the same - given you need a high powered laser - there are some on the market that seem very powerful - any suggestions?


wZn




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