Couple Ordered to Stop Holding Bible Study at Home Without Permit

I think this is totally wrong but something just occured to me.

Is it because this man is a PASTOR?
If he was just a regular Joe holding a Bible Study would it be different?

Could it be the local council thinks he is running a de facto church from his home and therefore would be required to apply for a pay for a permit?

Just a thought....Ridiculous either way.

Originally posted by sos37
reply to post by Jadette

 

What's the difference? If 25 people regularly came over to your neighbor's house to watch sports every single weekend you have no right (in a non-HOA area) to tell them they cannot come over to his house to assemble because YOU are tired of dealing with the traffic. As long as they all parked legally along the curb and are not breaking any other laws there would be absolutely nothing you do about it.

That is fairly correct. If they came over for no specific reason all the time, and they obeyed every law while they were there, it would be a lawful assembly, and the neighbors would have very little recourse.

Unfortunately, 25 people every week would have a hard time obeying all the laws. Would they park in front of someone's driveway or sidewalk or fire hydrant? Would they back into someone else's car as mentioned in this article? Would they make too much noise? Would they litter? Would they walk across private property? Would they get into altercations with disgruntled neighbors?

If one of my neighbors had such an event every week, and if the cars were parked in front of my house, or the people walked across my lawn, or the noise was apparent inside my house, I would find a way to stop it. In most cases, neighbors are empathetic to one another, and this would not happen. It might just take saying something once in a while. It might take me throwing a party on the same night and having my friends take up all the parking before their event started.

I guess the County is hurting for funds as is all of CA.

I never would have believed it.

I had to take a walk to calm down.

San Diego County is just asking for a national protest march if they don't back off and behave like human beings.

I have nothing but discust for whoever is calling the shots in this regard.

They should be thrown out of public servitude and take some time to lament over the ludicrous attempted application of county law? If anyone interprets a bible study as more than a private gathering and if no concern to the county whatsoever, is guilty of invasion of privacy at least and at most, violating Constitutional Law.

Shame on San Diego County

reply to post by getreadyalready


Yeah but how would them having a permit change any of that anyway?
It seems if they pay the money, then this gathering is legit.
That still wouldn't solve all those issues.

I guess what concerns me is this:

"On Good Friday we had an employee from San Diego County come to our house, and inform us that the bible study that we were having was a religious assembly, and in violation of the code in the county." David Jones told FOX News.

A few days later, the couple received a written warning that cited "unlawful use of land," ordering them to either "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit," the couple's attorney Dean Broyles told San Diego news station 10News.

Then the line of questioning they were asked, from another article:

"Do you have a regular weekly meeting in your home? Do you sing? Do you say 'amen'?" the official reportedly asked. "Do you say, 'Praise the Lord'?"

The pastor's wife answered yes.

So that does lead me to believe it is religious-specific. But I suppose what really gets my goat is that the permit is thousands of dollars? That is simply unreasonable, especially for a get together of 10-15 people. Not everyone will be able to afford that and they shouldn't have to pay it even if they could. But let's say it was enforced then the poor people would not have the same ability to assemble. Basically you would not not be able to afford practicing your religion in your own home in the form of fellowship.

It's a combination of the line of questioning the couple endured. As in, if they had said 'No. We don't we simply watch football,' this would not have been an issue. It appears to be religious in nature and not another problem like being inconsiderate neighbors hogging the streets or blocking everyone's driveway. Then it concerns me due to the fact why is the government poking it's nose into people's gathering in their own homes (for any legal reason- not just Bible studies). It doesn't sit well with me.

The 'big brother' thing irritates me as well as just about everything requires a permit these days. And holding a religious study in your home definitely should not be one of them.

[edit on 5/28/2009 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by Flighty
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Yeah but how would them having a permit change any of that anyway?
It seems if they pay the money, then this gathering is legit.
That still wouldn't solve all those issues.

Well, I agree that paying for the right is ludicrous. Giving the county the benefit of the doubt and making comparisons to building codes. By permitting, you provide some money for excess traffic control. You agree to abide by the terms of the permit, so you are more accountable for your actions. You ensure that precautions such as adequate bathroom facilities and parking considerations are met. And, you give the county the option of denying the permit, and saying, "No, this will not work here, find another venue."

I can't say I totally agree with our permitting system, but it has worked for building codes in California, Florida and elsewhere. My dad recently enclosed a porch, and he did not want to abide by the codes. He didn't see the point, since he knew it was just an old porch. I convinced him that the next homeowner may not know what he knows, and they may put a waterbed, punching bag, or enormous aquariums in what they believe to be an addition to the house. When it all caves in, it is his responsibility. He decided to let me build it to code, lol!

I bet they will jump in open arms to build a Mosque nearby, no offence but it happens all the time while the churches in the Middle east set up camp gets burned down. Now lets ban more Christianity it might offend those Satan worshippers at the top.

Originally posted by The time lord
I bet they will jump in open arms to build a Mosque nearby, no offence but it happens all the time while the churches in the Middle east set up camp gets burned down. Now lets ban more Christianity it might offend those Satan worshippers at the top.

What do you mean? NO OFFENSE

Apparently this group is in violation of some city ordinance. Why?

A permit for a religious assembly MUST BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

Bring it to the supreme court. IMO if the supreme court does it job, it should be ruled in their favor.

reply to post by Annee


I say no offence incase you think I am being biast, but reading about some of the things that come out from America its not surprising. I forgot each state has its own different rules.

reply to post by Vitchilo
Yes, you may have your revolution, but be sure to clean up after yourself. No rediculous laws, no taxes, and most importantly, no dead bodies left lying around. If you can't bury them, then don't shoot them.

I'm curious how this ordinance got to be a law, and did some digging.

As an aside, did you know that you have to have a license to be a fortune teller in San Diego county? Heh.

Here's the zoning laws in San Diego County. Unfortunately, I can't figure out what's what. Though, I think the main issue would be, is a prayer meeting considered a religious service?

www.sdcounty.ca.gov...

www.sdcounty.ca.gov...

Originally posted by Jadette

I'm curious how this ordinance got to be a law, and did some digging.

As an aside, did you know that you have to have a license to be a fortune teller in San Diego county? Heh.

Here's the zoning laws in San Diego County. Unfortunately, I can't figure out what's what. Though, I think the main issue would be, is a prayer meeting considered a religious service?

www.sdcounty.ca.gov...

www.sdcounty.ca.gov...

...does that mean I can get my money back if my fortune turns out to be bogus?

This seems so insane. I'm glad they are taking it to court, what they were doing was nobodys business. I don't care if this man is a pastor, when I was younger my family used to have dinner and lunch with the pastor. This just seems wrong.

Originally posted by Jadette
Though, I think the main issue would be, is a prayer meeting considered a religious service?

If he is an ordained Pastor - leading the group - wouldn't it be?

Is he taking up a collection?

What if someone who is not ordained ran the group.

Would it then just be a prayer meeting?



[edit on 28-5-2009 by Annee]

reply to post by Grayelf2009

This topic is already being discussed here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I posted the topic back on May 25th.

reply to post by Grayelf2009


I'd say a prayer for them but I don't have a permit



Seriously though, in Cali they've passed laws banning smoking in your own home while trying to legalize pot.
They ban prayer study in someones home but promote secular humanism as the new acceptable religion.
Can we just take a back-hoe and cut California off from the rest of us? I'm good with just 49 stars on the flag.
Really.

I think putting Arnie as governor was a very calculated move. Whenever you hear about the weirdest and most strange new laws and news from America, it all seems to be kicking off in California. People probably accept crap like this because it's coming from "the terminator"

I am just glad I don't live there today. The crime rate will go way up with the coming budget cuts. Some Christian orgs have pulled out of the state due to its taxes, laws and violent homosexuals. The people there are trying hard to home school if they can due to K-12 being so screwed up. The state will likely stop that and all Privet schools in the future to get Federal funding. It will be a tinder box within a year.

To be honest 15 people is a lot of people inside a house. Imagine the noise this people will do when praying. If you lived close to some religous group like that size you know.. they can make a hell of noise.

And remember they say the group must apply for a license. It wont mean that the license will be approved, it's just a request.