Couple Ordered to Stop Holding Bible Study at Home Without Permit

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posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:03 PM
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Couple Ordered to Stop Holding Bible Study at Home Without Permit


www.foxnews.com



Print ShareThisPastor David Jones and his wife Mary have been told that they cannot invite friends to their San Diego, Calif. home for a bible study — unless they are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to San Diego County.

"On Good Friday we had an employee from San Diego County come to our house, and inform us that the bible study that we were having was a religious assembly, and in violation of the code in the county." David Jones told FOX News.

"We told them this is not really a religious assembly — this is just a bible study with friends. We have a meal, we pray,
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:03 PM
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I just shook my head when I seen this one. There is alot of going on's in this goverment that point to bad guys in control.This is just another example of why we need to have a revolution. The goverment has gone off the deep end and only cares about itself preservation. I say it is time to clean house.


I hope this is in the right forum,mod adjust if needed.

www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:07 PM
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Couple Ordered to Stop Holding Bible Study at Home Without Permit.
This is an example of when small state governments over step there boundries. Next families will not be able to have friends over for political talks if they were to come up.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by Grayelf2009
 


Obviously California is desperate for money. My question is how does anyone know what you do behind closed doors and is it even anyones business? Will the state come monitor all family meetings to make sure you don't exceed the maximum number of individuals praying at once (whatever that is)?

Does this mean that when I meet my family once a week for dinner we have to have a permit if we do prayer before the meal?

Insane.....



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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This must have been triggered by a neighbor complaint. I don't think the county code enforcers are trolling the churches to find out about elicit meetings.

If there were a significant amount of parked cars, it may have caused someone to complain. In my neighborhood, no one would complain once or twice, but if this happened weekly in mass, then they do need to find another venue for their large group.

If the gathering was centered around a TV show, card game, or anything else, it would still have to not disturb the neighbors. This doesn't sound like a religious issue.

edit: Just read the second link to the full story. It says they have an average of 15 people. That is not a large group, the pastor's wife also says the county official asked if they pray, or say "amen." If so it requires a "Major Use" permit that costs thousands of dollars.

So....maybe it was religious in nature, but I still think they could rotate their bible study around between everyone's homes and sidestep this issue. That is how most study groups/card games are organized.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by getreadyalready]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Digital_Reality
reply to post by Grayelf2009
 


Obviously California is desperate for money.


You summed up my thoughts to the letter.

This is absolutely ridiculous.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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wow
feels like nazi germany doesn't it?



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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Don't care who complained or didn't complain to get them in trouble
First Amendment in our Bill of Rights.



Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;


Stay the hell out of my religious beliefs!! (or lack thereof).



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by drift393
 


Congress is irrelevant
this was portrayed as state law



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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ok thats crazy! so what about all the people who have parties and cookouts and other family gatherings...if its over 15 people are you gonna need a permit!? WTF! Its things like this that make me wonder what would happen if states really did declare their independence from the country and split away. would the states leaders suffer from the same idiocy we're facing with the federal government!? i need a beer!



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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Seperation/Intergration of Church & State.

Null & Void when money is at a loss...

I'm not religious but, I mean come on, their entitled to really do almost whatever inside there own home!

[edit on 28-5-2009 by Republican08]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:37 PM
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Oh for God's Sake!

I seem to remember a piece of paper outlining this somewhere...
Oh yeah...

The Bill of Rights!


* First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, Freedom of Religion, and of assembly; right to petition,

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


*shakes head in shame*



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


That is why I stay out of the country of California and I live in a neighboring state. Friends and family ask all the time to go to that foreign country and I flat out refuse to "cross the border"

No state should have the right to infringe upon any constitutional right unless that state is no longer part of the United States.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:50 PM
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Wow this sounds ridiculous. Bible study needs a PERMIT? Why would it matter how many people they had? They could have 500 people over every single night for dinner and prayer if they wanted.

How is this anyone business?



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:55 PM
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Freedom of Assembly guarantees these people's rights to gather togther.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances


The United States Supreme Court has held the first amendment not only applies to Congress but all branches of government, the states, and any local government.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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Thanks for posting this. I as watching Fox news the other day when they announced this as one of their upcoming stories, and i watched for hours, and they never reported it. Forgot about it until now.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
Wow this sounds ridiculous. Bible study needs a PERMIT? Why would it matter how many people they had? They could have 500 people over every single night for dinner and prayer if they wanted.

How is this anyone business?


It is everyone's business, because we live in a society. If you own 500 acres outside of town, have as many people over as you wish, but if you live in a subdivision, 15 people every week could be annoying to your neighbors. The point of the permit is just so they can turn around and say no you cannot do that there, it is zoned wrong.

I agree the constitution protects the right of religion and assembly. I don't think either of these rights is being infringed in this case. We don't have the entire story of course, but I know that I do not want my next door neighbor having 10 or 12 cars over at their house every single weekend.

If the county was telling this couple that they could not host a poker game every Saturday night, no body would be complaining. Thousands of citations are issued every year during the Super Bowl, New Year's Eve, and 4th of July, and everybody knows it is par for the course.

Why should a group be allowed special privileges because they claim to be praying. My poker game is a religious experience as well, and a lot of praying happens, believe me!



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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It is ridiculous - makes me wonder how such a thing got implimented.

But I'll bet it's one of those things that rarely gets enforced. In this case, the news story posted here:

www.10news.com...

claims that one of the bible study participants hit a neighbor's car and so there was a complaint against them.

Also, it's one thing to have people over on occasion, and it's another to do it once a week, every week, for 5 years. I think if they were my neighbors and I had the traffic of 15 plus cars weekly invading my street, I might be a little disgruntled. You live in a residental neighborhood for a reason - if you wanted to live next door to some social venue, you would.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 03:06 PM
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TOTAL violation of first amendment.

Another right in the DITCH.

Can I have a revolution now?

Pretty please?



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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Ultimately, we have to accept that the state of California can, and will, institute such laws and policies as their constituent citizens allow.

These people have the right of redress. They can easily appeal this citation, or regulation with the local courts and it will no doubt be nullified (especially if a jury is involved.)

However, the fact that someone felt the need to report this to the authorities is telling of information we may not be aware of. Perhaps they are loud, perhaps they present a traffic hazard when they all arrive in the neighborhood. It is possible that these people, no matter how inconsequential the reason, were being a public nuisance.

Taking this possibility to it's logical conclusion, it is possible that the officials were not specifically interested in the 'nature' of their gathering, but its form. If the official made reference to the religious aspect of it, it may have been to inform them that their activities were disrupting the local population somehow (maybe they were too loud, or creating difficulties.)

I will not vilify the state until more details are made available, only because I have seen people 'use' their constitutionally legal rights to justify an imposition on other people that they care less about than themselves.

If however, there is truth the the accusation that California, or a county or town, is simply trying to increase their revenue by dubious bureaucratic means, then they should be be both ashamed, and punished.

Freedom of assembly, and freedom to worship are NOT negotiable in this country.... except when 'free-speech' zones are implemented by quasi-fascists. Then we are all diminished to serfdom.





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