Two-Year-Old Boy Shot Dead By Sister, Three'

It's reassuring to see so many posters seeing that the blame is with the parents, not the gun - as obvious as that seems to me.

When the day arrives that the majority of people take the opposing view, we will have lost a lot more than just the gun debate, we'll have lost our freedom and our means of protecting our families.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by franspeakfree

 

But take a step back and look at where these gun-ignorant, trigger-happy people are.

I didn't say trigger happy, the majority of young people that have guns are so they look cool and feel powerful, shooting cats and dogs and other animals with bbguns and air rifles is an everyday occurrence in europe. Therefore, I firmly believe that these are the people that will advance and progress to the real guns. If something isn't done to stop this progression we could see a massive rise in gun crime in the next 10 years.

Originally posted by franspeakfree

the majority of young people that have guns are so they look cool and feel powerful

This statement is is regional at best. meaning there are very well areas in which the majority of kids have this attitude as there are areas in which very few individuals if any have this attitude.

From personal experience I can tell you I havent yet met a New Hampshire native with this attitude but I have run into a few Massachusetts kids here on vacation who did have this simplistic view of "cool" and/or "power."

Why do you think this is?

reply to post by franspeakfree

In my book tightening up gun laws or indeed banning certain people from owning them is the way forward.

In what ways would you tighten the gun laws, would you perhaps ban handguns like they did in Chicago ? That doesn't work, because the law abiding citizens are the only ones that follow those laws. The criminals and gangbangers are still walking around with handguns shooting and killing people.


From last year....

Chicago has been hit by a gun crime surge which saw nine people killed in 36 separate shooting incidents last weekend.

Twenty-four of the city's public school children have been killed since the academic year began last August - 21 of them in shootings.

Police Superintendent Jody Weis blamed the weekend's outbreak of violence on an excess of guns and gangs.

news.sky.com... ws_Article_Related_Content_Region_5&lid=ARTICLE_1313748_Chicago_Gun_Crime%3A_Windy_City_Concerned_As_Wave_Of_Violence_Grips_City

CHICAGO (WLS) -- At least 37 people were shot in Chicago over the weekend. Eight of the shootings were fatal. Chicago police received dozens of 911 calls about the gun violence around the city this weekend. They acknowledge that 37 shootings is a big number for a three-day period. Six people were hit in three separate shootings late Sunday night on the city's West Side.

current.com...



From Jan/2004.....

Chicago has regained the title of America's murder capital, despite registering its fewest homicides in almost 40 years, police says

Last year, police seized about 10,000 guns for the second year in a row.

news.bbc.co.uk...

So we now have all kinds of thugs shooting up the city like the old west, but law abiding citizens have no way to legally defend ourselves.

As far as banning certain people, who people that are mentally unstable, felons, people like that are already banned from possessing guns, it doesn't work.

You know what works ? When the criminals have to worry if the person they target as their next victim is legally carrying a gun and can defend themselves.

reply to post by franspeakfree

I believe that people should have a good reason to keep guns, not just for 'self defense'

So are you saying that self defense is not a good reason to have a gun ? What would you consider a good reason to have a gun ?

I don't necessarily think you can blame the parents for the gun being loaded, after all if it is meant to be used for self defense, would you have time to get the key, open the safe, get the magazine and load it? That would take quite a bit of time, and in a break-in situation, you don't have time to go through that whole process.
I do however think the gun should have been hidden obviously, to be out of reach by children.
What we need is a little safe-box that opens immediately after it scans your fingerprint. That would solve all children gun accidents like this.

Isn't there some kind of required training, before a gun is handed to someone? Which would include a big red "do not put a loaded gun under your bed", or "do not test the gun while its pointing at your face".

Here in Serbia we have deaths by fire weapon on regular basis, every new year at least 1 kill. For example, just this year a guy head-shot his friend due to ricochet from his machine gun in a cafe close to where I live... chances were high since he fired some 20 bullets.

Most people have guns to feel safer and less afraid from other people. It's considered a magical device that makes you the master and owner of anyone you point it to. I know few people that use it for sports, but they are well trained, somewhat sane people, and keep their gun under several locks.

Originally posted by mf_luder
reply to post by Solomons

 

Amen. Don't take away my gun rights because people are idiots. This is 100% the parent's fault for leaving it not only accessible but LOADED as well.

That's insanity of the highest order.

That's the problem there are millions of idiots with guns in this country. I mean come on a country with the lowest standard of education in any western country and the highest amount of guns. You figure it out.

Originally posted by franspeakfree

Originally posted by Solomons
Nothing to do with the right to bare arms,everything to do with stupid stupid irresponsible parents.Very sad for them and im sure they are going through a terrible time,but hate to put it bluntly...100% their fault.

Sure but I am dead set against guns and I believe it would be better for everyone in general if the gun laws were tightened.

So? This is the parents fault.

Trying to use this thread as an anti-gun push when there is nothing backing your statement about gun control?

These parents are STUPID. STUPID. STUPID.

The gun should be hidden in a VERY high place (preferably a safe).
The gun should be on lock.
The gun should have no ammo in it (even if it is just put aside).
The clip should be moved somewhere.

Now, if you live by yourself or with another responsible adult those things could be argued, but with kids, I feel all of those need to be followed.

Originally posted by rogue1
Originally posted by franspeakfree
How many people that give it all the talk talk could actually pull the trigger and kill another human being? Death is Death and something that you would have to live with for the rest of your life
Good point and I totally agree. There is much bravado in here, I think due to the TV nation America has become.

Good straw man quoting there. The poster was talking about pulling the trigger to save your family. There is no bravado in saving your family, only instinct.

It makes me lose hope to think there are such people who wouldn't have the salt to pull a trigger on a stranger to save a family members life. I guess it's all the female hormones in food we're eating nowdays.

[edit on 30-5-2009 by Lazyninja]

reply to post by chise61


I don't think anyone should have a gun I personally believe that a gun is an extension to the ego. I don't think it has anything to do with self defense, its a power toy that is extremely dangerous.

In regards to the law,

I believe that anyone caught with a gun on them in the street should face 2 years in prison, thats 2 years not out in 6 months for good behaviour, that should start cleaning up the cities.

In those 2 years the criminals should do manual work (dressed in coloured overalls that show what they have done) around the city to give something back to the community, also they should be educated in a classroom about the community,drugs,and guns.

The justice system in the world is to lenient I believe it should start to crack down on these gun toting criminals in order to clean up the world.

reply to post by Lazyninja


Its easy to give it all the "big I am" speech but would you really pull the trigger? would you really take another persons life? if you can decide so easily then I suggest you start meditating and let some compassion in to your life.

reply to post by franspeakfree


Yes I wouldn't have any problems pulling a trigger to save a family member. Other situations would be far more difficult.

Also I find your use of the term "big i am" to be extremely insulting. Just for some future reference to a meditating pacifist type who probably doesn't aim to annoy people.

And it's easy to say I'd do it, because I would. I fully understand the psychological problems I would suffer after though. Human beings aren't built for killing each other, unless they are psychotic.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by Lazyninja]

Originally posted by Lazyninja
reply to post by franspeakfree

 

Also I find your use of the term "big i am" to be extremely insulting. Just for some future reference to a meditating pacifist type who probably doesn't aim to annoy people.
edit on 31-5-2009 by Lazyninja]

Yes your right I apologise, I feel very strongly about gun crime because I knew a person who was shot dead by a group of teenagers.

I don't believe that all the people that own guns have them purely for self defense, I am positive that some of them have them as an extension to the ego.

Ban all guns I say.

reply to post by franspeakfree


First off, a gun is not a toy.

I believe that anyone caught with a gun on them in the street should face 2 years in prison, thats 2 years not out in 6 months for good behaviour, that should start cleaning up the cities.

You obviously have no idea of the gang mentality in the US, for some of them going to prison is a right of passage, it proves their loyalty. When they are imprisoned they gain more power and control when they come out as they have done time for their "nation".

You can make them do whatever manual labor you want, and force them to wear neon pink overalls and it won't make a difference as it really has nothing to do with guns it has to do with their gang mentality. When it comes to the gang issue the focus needs to be on stopping the gang activity, once that is stopped the gun crimes will go down on thier own.

The rights of law abiding responsible citizens can not be infringed upon because of the actions of criminals.

Originally posted by franspeakfree

Sure but I am dead set against guns and I believe it would be better for everyone in general if the gun laws were tightened.

To what end? It won't bring anyone back, what it would "prevent" is arguable, & the people who use them with malice don't give a flying piece of crap about the laws and would probably assume less people would have guns & get more brazen if sweeping change was made.

More kids die in car accidents then being shot by a sibling, parent, friend, etc...so why not outlaw cars too if public safety is such a concern? What about alcohol, I think more people die because of that directly or indirectly, so why not over regulate that too?

People die, people make mistakes, and some people enjoy liberty and don't feel the need for government to play the over-protective parent and give us a bunch of rules by which we have to abide by for the sake that some one might make a mistake & get hurt/killed.

Meanwhile, actual bad people are getting guns from where ever they can and don't care about using them with malicious intent, as opposed to the vast majority of those who legally obtain their fire arms.

Think this has been brought up before here on ATS.

Do you feel a few irresponsible individuals should be used as a reason to take away a Constitutional right from all Americans?

As an example, do you feel if a KKK rally causes a riot that results in injury and/or death of individuals, that the right to assembly and/or the right to free speech should be taken away from all Americans?

Nope. Nothing needs to be done. This is a private incident by a private couple. You don't ban all stings on exercise machines because Tyson's daughter strangled herself, you don't ban all garages because a couple forgot to buy a carbon monoxide detector, and you don't ban all computers because one person hacked another's computer. This is no different, and to try to spin it any other way is a failure on grand proportions on your behalf. Please do not lecture about 'woe is me' America with their irresponsibility. Idiocracy does not give you the right to assault the rights of the many, and to try is, again, a woefully large failure on your behalf. And once again, to try and tell me that I'm too stupid to use a gun so I can't have one is a violation of my human rights and the government's assumption of my qualities, which is not their right. The last time they did that it was called segregation, and we all know what happened there.

Go away ignoramus.

[edit on 1-6-2009 by Gorman91]

Guns in family homes should always be locked away and kept unloaded. I don't see why it wouldn't be because accidents like this are unfortunately common.

In my opinion I don't think the public should have access to automatic machine guns such as uzis. You know, something you just hold the trigger down and can take down everyone on the block. A sem-automatic should be good enough for the protection of you and your house.