Two-Year-Old Boy Shot Dead By Sister, Three'

My parents always had their guns loaded but we (7 of us kids) knew better than to touch them. Things have changed and people don't teach the children anymore, they give them time out. Because they don't teach them, if they have children in the house they shouldn't have loaded guns. Period, no ifs ands or buts.

Originally posted by franspeakfree

Originally posted by Solomons
Nothing to do with the right to bare arms,everything to do with stupid stupid irresponsible parents.Very sad for them and im sure they are going through a terrible time,but hate to put it bluntly...100% their fault.

Sure but I am dead set against guns and I believe it would be better for everyone in general if the gun laws were tightened.

I pray the day never comes when you are helpless against a sadistic criminal intending nothing short of harming you or a loved one.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but your view is what I refer to as the "Hellen Keller position"

It is blind faith that destroys freedom. It is deaf to hear not the truth.

I agree to this point.
In a perfect world, there would be no weapons.

But, let's face it, If the second amendment was repealed, the civil unrest that would errupt persuant such an unconstitutional act notwithstanding,

Guess who would have guns. Only the criminals and those who are already decreeing themselves above the law.

I do agree that this is child endangerment (2 counts), and 1 count each manslaughter by proxy and attempted manslaughter by proxy, respectively.

Now for those of us who have our wits about us, a loaded .45 or any other weapon would never be within reach of any person,
Child, Ex-Vice-President or other, for, there is a simple 3 part formula that should be embraced when handling, storing, carrying a firearm.

1) Guns have the potential to kill. Never leave a firearm unattended outside of a proper locking and preferrably heated safe.

2) Never brandish a weapon unless you intend to use it. Especially in a self-defensive situation.

3) Pull the trigger and the firearm will fire a projectile, whether it is known or believed to be loaded or contrarily, unloaded.


If this three part formula is followed, all accidental shootings would be limited to a faulty mechanism and or discharge from unintentional impact (i.e. dropping the weapon), or from faulty or ammunition not specified for use with a particular model by manufacturer

Since Common Sense is not evidence in a court of law, it is very disheartening that a tragic, life devestating event such as this must take place to school the now liable owner and no remorse or lamenting will ever relieve the criminality or nightmares that sentence the irresponsible for their actions, or lack there of.

The only exception to this type of result is white collar crime that is rewarded such as the derrivative neckromancers and their kind.

Just to add; That is why I chose SigSauer P-220 for my .45 choice.

There is no trigger safety. There is a hammer safety that I have never seen misfire from dropping, and there is never a justification for the use of the perverbial statment:

"I thought the safety was on".

Moreover, no matter the model, the statement;

" I didn't think it was loaded" should never leave the pallate for,
Every weapon should be considererd loaded, period!!

To use this, or any akin tragity as a pro-agenda tool of gun law restriction advocacy is, IMHO, equal to selling your own mother into slavery.

I respect your position, but you would throw yourself prostrate in humbled thanksgiving should I or another responsible gun carrier save you or you loved ones helpless asses from the illegally packing criminal who wants you or what you have, not matter if you were shot to take what is desired.

They call these people psychopaths. You can also find them in Government Hierchy.

The foolish in this and other similar tragic shootings, are not psychotic per se, but they are naive to the capability of weapons and negligent, unfit and just plain stupid parents at best, and capital felons, have no words to comfort their caused ruin, nor their blindness before or after the fact , and child killers with haunting selfish disregard for life, including even their own siblings at worst.


Lastly,

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of liberty."

"A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. "

"A nation which has forgotten the quality of courage which in the past has been brought to public life is not as likely to insist upon or regard that quality in its chosen leaders today--and in fact we have forgotten."

"Let us call a truce to terror. Let us invoke the blessings of peace. And as we build an international capacity to keep peace, let us join in dismantling the national capacity to wage war."

"The first requirement of efficiency and economy... is highly competent personel."

"We cannot expect that all nations will adopt like systems, for conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth."

"If we cannot end now our differences, at least we can help make the world safe for diversity."

( Quotes from JFK )



[edit on 29-5-2009 by imd12c4funn]

reply to post by Aeons


I believe that my reference to "embracing individual personal responsibility" applies to that issue.

My issue is with some of the arguments suggesting that the existence of guns in the home is the fault here. I have read many stories where a moment of irresponsibility on the part of a parent or relative backing their car out of a driveway has resulted in them running over a small child that they did not see. Yet, never have I heard anyone suggest that if people were banned from owning automobiles, the tragedy would have been avoided.

My point to this is that the anti-gun crowd can only relate to guns as a tool to kill, which they are. Yet guns also have the ability to serve as a tool to preserve and protect our lives, freedom and liberty. As with any tool, a hammer, baseball bat, vehicle, or even a bathtub, all can be used to kill if used or handled improperly by irresponsible people.

Originally posted by franspeakfreeSure but I am dead set against guns and I believe it would be better for everyone in general if the gun laws were tightened.

harsher gun laws only benefits criminals

This is a tragic case, but what the f where the parents thinking- would anyone leave a knife around for a child to grab hold of

[edit on 29-5-2009 by blueorder]

Ok it looks like I am in the minority here when I say that gun laws should be tightened.

Yes I know guns don't kill people, people kill people. But imagine a world without guns without the unecessary deaths that occur due to negligence. In order to change this world for the better sacrifcies have to be made.

In my book tightening up gun laws or indeed banning certain people from owning them is the way forward.

Some people have said "What about defending yourself and you family" I say that if I was forced into that situation I don't think I would have it in me to pull the trigger.

How many people that give it all the talk talk could actually pull the trigger and kill another human being? Death is Death and something that you would have to live with for the rest of your life


[edit on 29-5-2009 by franspeakfree]

Originally posted by franspeakfree
Ok it looks like I am in the minority here when I say that gun laws should be tightened.

Yes I know guns don't kill people, people kill people. But imagine a world without guns without the unecessary deaths that occur due to negligence. In order to change this world for the better sacrifcies have to be made.

In my book tightening up gun laws or indeed banning certain people from owning them is the way forward.

Some people have said "What about defending yourself and you family" I say that if I was forced into that situation I don't think I would have it in me to pull the trigger.

How many people that give it all the talk talk could actually pull the trigger and kill another human being? Death is Death and something that you would have to live with for the rest of your life


[edit on 29-5-2009 by franspeakfree]

the problem with that is it is a nice thought in theory- no guns- but there will never be guns removed unless man disappears

The genie got out of the bottle a long time ago

reply to post by blueorder


Its true and unfortunately this is going to be our downfall, whether or not a gigantic horrendous event has to happen in order for us to change our ways I don't know. All I know is that life would be so much better without guns,violence and money.

Originally posted by franspeakfree
reply to post by blueorder

 

Its true and unfortunately this is going to be our downfall, whether or not a gigantic horrendous event has to happen in order for us to change our ways I don't know. All I know is that life would be so much better without guns,violence and money.

In theory you are right, this would be a utopian world- we are stuck with this world, with us humans in all our flawed glory

Originally posted by franspeakfree
Ok it looks like I am in the minority here when I say that gun laws should be tightened.

Yes I know guns don't kill people, people kill people. But imagine a world without guns without the unecessary deaths that occur due to negligence. In order to change this world for the better sacrifcies have to be made.

In my book tightening up gun laws or indeed banning certain people from owning them is the way forward.

Some people have said "What about defending yourself and you family" I say that if I was forced into that situation I don't think I would have it in me to pull the trigger.

How many people that give it all the talk talk could actually pull the trigger and kill another human being? Death is Death and something that you would have to live with for the rest of your life


[edit on 29-5-2009 by franspeakfree]

I understand your point of view, but the realities are that there is evil in this world and evil intent in the hearts of many within it. It has been so since the beginning and will always be. People have done harm to others before there were firearms and technology only changed the methods not the result.

I look at my wonderful wife and my 3 and 7 year old daughters, who are my whole life and I imagine what would happen if a street thug looking to get money to support his drug habit broke in, took what money we had and put his gun to my daughter's head and pulled the trigger, just to be mean. In my mind, the pain I might feel after pulling the trigger of my gun on this man before that happened pales in comparison to the lifetime of agony and pain I would feel watching my family die at his hand and being powerless to stop it. Assuming I was spared.

Originally posted by Electro38
The debate is over parenting, not guns. Where did this happen? I imagine in the South USA, or South West?

These parents should go right to jail, do not pass go.

Why would you assume this? Because there are a lot of guns? There are more guns in midwest? Besides, more guns usually means better gun education? I don't want to make the same mistake as you, but if I were guessing, I would say N E US, or California.

Originally posted by franspeakfree

In my book tightening up gun laws or indeed banning certain people from owning them is the way forward.

So I'll toss this one out once more:

Please tell us which laws should be "tightened" or created and how those laws would have or could have saved this life.

I accept that maybe you missed this the first time or even that I have missed your response and I'd appreciate directions as to which page I can read your response.

Avoiding the question shows you do not want to think about your own idea. What is it worth if you yourself won't bother to think about it?

It's absolutely imperative that anyone thinking the way actually sit and consider this question. 99% of the time they learn that the laws they wish to tighten or impose already exist and that they cannot/could not have any impact whatsoever on the accident which is generally the catalyst for this tired discussion.

You need to think about what you're saying and answering this question is the first step.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

So I'll toss this one out once more:

Please tell us which laws should be "tightened" or created and how those laws would have or could have saved this life.

I believe that people should have a good reason to keep guns, not just for 'self defense' I believe that each person should have to go a to a gun school in order to learn how to use them, and each person that wants to own a gun should have to work in an A&E department for a night to see what weapons can do to people. Innocent people.

I accept that maybe you missed this the first time or even that I have missed your response and I'd appreciate directions as to which page I can read your response.

I did miss you post not by purpose mind you I just scanned over the posts to get the general concensus.

Avoiding the question shows you do not want to think about your own idea. What is it worth if you yourself won't bother to think about it?

Sorry I did not intentionally ignore you, I didn't think it would be practical to answer each post



[edit on 29-5-2009 by franspeakfree]

Originally posted by franspeakfree

Wow another tragic incident involving guns and children when will people learn? this is only going to fuel the debate about allowing people to bear arms.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by franspeakfree]

Negative media hype has the population depending on weapons to protect their families. A simple guard dog will do. Children are more prone to this type tragedy than choking on candy.

reply to post by franspeakfree


That's a start.

I'll assume "A&E" is an Emergency Room? During my EMT training I had to spend a 10 hour shift in an ER in a major city. No gun related wounds. A stabbing, a couple of car wrecks and a lot of drunks/addicts. Regardless, it's no secret what happens to a living thing when hit by a bullet. So now answer how would this have saved the life that was lost?

Most states already require some form of education for gun ownership whether it's a hunting related safety class or a firearm specific safety class. Generally people who live with firearms don't need such classes as they have been around from an early age.

Plus there are always instructors like these idiots here: Instuctor shoot himself in head

How would this have prevented the loss of life?

It's a start but you need to follow through.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
it could have been a knife as well
gun laws will be brought up
but if this was a knife would knife laws be brought up?

Don't be obtuse it wouldn't have been a knife at all. She wouldn't have accidentally stabbed her brother - if you can't figure out the difference ......

Originally posted by franspeakfree
How many people that give it all the talk talk could actually pull the trigger and kill another human being? Death is Death and something that you would have to live with for the rest of your life
quote]

Good point and I totally agree. There is much bravado in here, I think due to the TV nation America has become.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


The way I see it its al about education and making people aware of the repercussions of their actions. Every weekend where I live there is some kind of violence involving weapons, where kids aged between 15-25 get wounded, sometimes fatally.

Once people start to see first hand what happens maybe that will make them think twice before applying for a licence or indeed using a gun.

You have to ask yourself why do people have guns in the first place?

Why do people on this site have avatars that show themselves with guns?

Guns are cool, guns are the fashion, they are power, they make people that don't have guns yield to them. If we can educate people to the point where power doesn't matter then perhaps we can all live in a utopian world.

Yet another tragic incident with children and guns, blame the parents for not putting the firearm in a more unaccessible place, now they have to live with it for the rest of their lives, the little girl however will forget her brother in a couple of years as she's only 3 , and only be reminded of him by her parents.

Another nail in the coffin for private gun ownership.

Expect a couple more school shootings and even then all the loudest protestations from the public won't stop your guns from being taken away , for your protection from yourselves of course.

[edit on 29/5/09 by DataWraith]

reply to post by franspeakfree


You're right. Education is key. And for too many people guns are "cool."

So where are these gun-ignorant kids who see them as a "cool" thing killing one another with them?

I'm not talking about freak accidents or cases of obvious parental neglect like this instance here with the little girl. This is a different animal altogether.

But take a step back and look at where these gun-ignorant, trigger-happy people are. The answer speaks volumes.

It's always a tragedy to see a story like this caused by negligent parents, however I think the bigger tragedy is when the anti's come out of the woodwork to try to use it to further their cause of gun control. In 2006 in the U.S. there were 102 accidental firearm deaths in children 0-17. Lets put this in perspective, in 2006 there were 934 drownings, 326 poisonings, and 1136 suffocations for the same age group.

Link goes to source