Two-Year-Old Boy Shot Dead By Sister, Three'

reply to post by Dr Love

Based on the huge number of firearms possessed in the U.S., the guns used in freak instances like this are a tiny little minute fraction of the whole. The media just makes sure you hear about 100% of the freak instances, while completely leaving out the math.

That's the truth of it, right there.

Given the sheer numbers, I own 5 myself, it's amazing that it doesn't happen more often, law of averages if nothing else... The primary reason is, IMHO, most gun owners know what they've got, a tool that if misused can cause incalculable damage.

Education, as with so many issues, is the answer. Teach 'em, and no problem, or at least a miniscule one.

Originally posted by franspeakfree


Sure but I am dead set against guns and I believe it would be better for everyone in general if the gun laws were tightened.

I'm going to ask the same question I always ask when I see statements like this. As I know exactly where this is going to lead I ask not for my benefit but for yours.

Please tell us which laws should be "tightened" or created and how those laws would have or could have saved this life.

*Note: the magical disappearance of all firearms and knowledge of firearm construction being an absolute impossibility I recommend you steer clear of fantasy "laws" so many anti-gun people resort to. It's a stupid corner to paint yourself into and results in immediate forfeit.

She should be tryed as an adult just like all the other children. Shes obviously a murderer.

/sarcasm off

So what age did they decide to stop trying kids as adults, is the magic number 3? I think if she was 6 shed be in prison.




edit eidt edity edit edit because I edited 5 seconds later omfg!!!!!!!!!!!!

[edit on 28-5-2009 by Memysabu]

I remember baby proofing my house for the safety of the kids... The basic rule was to simply put whatever we didn't want them to touch out of reach. Not too tough considering their short stature...

Items that go boom, and have the capacity to cause such pain and suffering would definitely have been placed a tad higher than ON THE FLOOR.

You hate to place blame in a situation like this but you really have no choice. My heart goes out to the parents regardless though, and I hope the news of this serves as a wake up call to others.

As for this continuing the snatch and grab fears gun owners have regarding the public opinion turning against the 2nd amendment, I share your concerns.

The general public will say, see, we need to take guns away from people because people cannot handle guns, as opposed to seeing that this was an accident that could easily have been avoided had the parents made an attempt to keep the gun stored in a more safe manner.

We all know this:

The sister could easily have grabbed a knife from the kitchen draw and caused the same death of her sibling. Does that mean we're going to start taking steak knives away from responsible adults? No. So why do always get there when the conversation turns to guns?

Originally posted by franspeakfree

How many deaths wil it take to realise that something has to be done about guns and the laws that allow anyone to keep one? its sheer madness, think how those parents feel now and will always feel. Spare a thought.

There is nothing wrong with our laws that allow people to bear arms. I know plenty of responsible gun owners that have never had an accidental shooting with their guns.

The problem is not with laws allowing gun ownership, it is with people being irresponsible with their guns. These parents should have had a trigger lock on the gun, or kept it unloaded and locked away out of reach.

Law abiding citizens that are responsible gun owners should not lose their right to bear arms because of irresponsible ones. Would you say that people should not be allowed to have alcohol in their homes because someone's small child got ahold of a bottle of their whiskey and died from alcohol poisioning ?

reply to post by franspeakfree


Yes, I own guns, and if I do something stupid with one of them, there will be a price to pay, that should be clearly understood by anyone who misuses any device.

There are 2 million defensive uses of firearms in the US every year, and a handful of idiots who hurt or kill someone with an inadequately stored firearm.

My wife saved her life with her revolver when 2 illegals tried to break into neighborhood houses, would you like to tell her that guns are bad?

If you choose not to own a firearm, I fully respect your desire not to do so. But please don't try and tell me what you think I should be able to own.

When my son just turned 2, he started eating his toast into a gun shape and saying, "Gun Dada." I immediately went to Lowe's and bought a gun safe.

The flipside is that I also immediately started talking to him about guns, how to "play" with his toy guns, and about how off-limits dada's guns are. He now walks several feet around my safe, or my guns if I have them out, and he says, "Oooo, no touch gun dada."

He won't point a toy gun at anyone, not even the dog. The first time he pointed one (made from legos) at his baby brother he got smacked. The second and last time he pointed one at the dog, and instead of smacking him, I asked why he wanted to "Kill" the dog. I thought he liked the dog, and so on until he was in tears hugging the dog.

At 2 1/2 he is better educated about guns and knives than most adults. I have a niece that is 7, and I worry about her all the time. Her mother does not let her even see toy guns, she does not watch any violent television or cartoons, she is 100% naive about the whole subject. One day she will be at some boyfriend's house and she will pick up a weapon and have no idea how to handle it. Someone could easily be killed.

My brother has terrific gun handling skills. One day a girl wanted to see his gun, he dropped the clip, cleared the chamber twice and handed it to her. In a split second she pointed it at his face and pulled the trigger. "Click!" Him and I both had a heart stopping moment, and he took it away from her.

No environment can be made totally safe. We have to live by experience and education. Please, please, please do not shield yourselves or your children from the real world and create a vacuum of knowledge. Education in all matters is the key.

Along St. George Island on the panhandle of Florida, 100-700 BOMBS wash up onto the shore every year from the military gun range in the Gulf of Mexico. This is a small (3-mile) stretch of beach. You can ban weapons all you want, and something dangerous is still going to find its way into your life.

Another child sacrificed so that people can continue to keep their guns in stupid places.

Gotta wonder if they believe that the sacrifice for their "right" to keep thier gun loaded under the bed is worth it.

Maybe they do. Sociopaths are like that. Child. Fork. Gun. Whatever.

Oh, and like most parents who aren't stupid - I don't keep my knives under the bed. I keep them well away from the areas where children might EASILY get at them and led to OBVIOUS problems.

It isn't an accident when you do something that makes an event inevitable.

[edit on 2009/5/28 by Aeons]

reply to post by getreadyalready


That's genius with the dog.. If I ever have children, I'm going to remember this story to teach them about guns


Anyways. I won't get in debate of the politics on this one, no matter how many freedom hating people want to hate guns.

I will say, the owner of that handgun is a moron. My dad had guns around the house, be he always taught me to tell him if I saw it somewhere. One time, I saw his .357 on his bed, so I went downstairs to tell him he left it outside. Though I was about five at the time, maybe six.

I doubt I would ever keep a gun loaded like that, with or without children. There's no reason to, unless you live in a war zone.

Shame on the parents for keeping the gun loaded with one in the chamber and unlocked to boot. That is a tough gun for a 3 year old to arm. The parents will have to bear the burden on this one.

My handgun is always locked in a quick access vault that is bolted down.

When will people learn?

reply to post by franspeakfree



You're against guns huh? Ok. Lets ban all guns and not address the problems that lead to tragedies like this. Let's blame the object rather than the irresponsible parent that allowed this to happen. You can't legislate personal responsibility. So come up with something intelligent and something that doesn't violate my rights because someone wanted to be an idiot and we'll have a debate.

Originally posted by mommy4life
Very tragic.

Why oh why do people always believe these things could never happen to them? Ours are kept under lock and key due to the fact we have kids in the house. But to us that is just common sense. Just like we would never let our kids play in the street but some parents just don't think.

You don't let your kids play out in the street? Do you mean, in the "middle of a busy road", or do you mean the "middle of a quiet cul-de-sac"?

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth

Originally posted by mommy4life
Very tragic.

Why oh why do people always believe these things could never happen to them? Ours are kept under lock and key due to the fact we have kids in the house. But to us that is just common sense. Just like we would never let our kids play in the street but some parents just don't think.

You don't let your kids play out in the street? Do you mean, in the "middle of a busy road", or do you mean the "middle of a quiet cul-de-sac"?

Personal Responsibility That is the key term. Of course you let your kids play in the streets. See my earlier post. If you do not teach the kids how to navigate streets, they will eventually get squished. Only you can decide when they are capable of doing it without your supervision. You teach them the difference between a cul de sac and a freeway. You teach them to watch for cars, and get to the curb when one comes. You teach them common courtesy for the neighbors, they wave, they get out of the way, they don't bounce basketballs off the parked cars, etc.

It takes my 2 yr old and I a very long time to walk 2 blocks to his grandparents, because every single car he pulls me to the grass until the car is long gone. He also does this in parking lots. It is annoying sometimes, but I don't dare tell him to ignore them. I set a good example everytime, and the people waiting in the restaurant laugh and order me a drink while they wait!

IMHO, Sheltered kids are at the heart of our country's crises right now. They don't learn consequences and they grow up naive, until the real world starts to bite them back.

Bullies, school shootings, our whining no-fault litigious society, out-of-touch celebrities and politicians, and wasteful consumer mentality ruining the economy, can all be traced back to the way we have changed our child-rearing over the past 50-100 years.

Responsible kids = responsible adults = responsiblie business plans = responsible law enforcement = responsible governments, etc, etc.

Even in the 1800's when Pioneers and Cowboys used guns and carried them daily.They had enough brains to put guns up high or lock them in gun cabinets.

They also had the intellectual fortitude to teach their children to not touch firearms. Now back then if this happened what do you think would be said?

Ill tell you... People would say how stupid the parent was for not teaching their kid and for not putting the gun away in a safe place. They would not have jumped to the conclusion that all guns needed to be taken away or restricted. Things have a way of getting twisted now days because of personal ideology/agendas.

I have a friend who does a wild west show for children. You know, with tomahawks, whips and guns. The kids love it! He takes a moment in his routine to teach kids about firearm safety and about what to do if you find a gun laying around.

You would be surprised at how many of the parents thank him for putting this in his routine because they have not thought about doing it themselves.

Sad....

While I do see the argument of a lock box and all that, here is a bigger question..

What good does a gun locked up in a safe do when somebody busts into your house with a weapon? Surely seconds count in this situation, and the fact of having a gun in an easily accessable area is paramount.

I do believe a gun should ALWAYS be out of reach of children though. If you have children, you better be damned sure that your gun is not in a spot where they will even have the smallest possibility of finding.

To me, If I had a gun, I would keep it right next to me in my end table. But then again, I do not have children and that does drastically change the situation. Children are curious little creatures, and if they see something in a cartoon involving a gun (eg. Bugs Bunny) they will most likely know exactly how to use it.

There has to be a balance between safety and accessability. A gun does you no good locked up in a vault when you need it right then and there. If the whole family was brutally murdered because they were unable to access their firearm then would that be better?

I feel so bad for that little girl. Probably never expected anything like that to happen since she has never seen the effects of a gun shot. I can only hope that this is a wakeup call for all the people that leave their guns in stupid places when children are present.

[edit on 5/28/2009 by deadline527]

I have a keyless entry safe. I dial the combo and have my weapon out in 3 seconds flat. Thats plenty time to be prepared for most situations. And if its not well, you win some you lose some. At least I have a small chance while also being responsible at the same time.

The lock box argument does not disqualify the use/ownership of a firearm.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by Digital_Reality]

reply to post by deadline527


Just before bed, along with locking all the doors, turning out the lights, etc., I open my safe. My shot gun is an arm's length away.

My shotgun is my home protection gun, because it has a xenon light mounted to it for identifying the target, it is loaded with a light shot, so I can clear a room, but it won't penetrate the walls to the kids rooms. If I unfortunately run out of shots, it makes a great bat, etc. It also makes a very intimidating noise when it is "pumped." That action alone would probably send a burglar scurrying away.

When I get up in the morning (assuming I haven't shot anyone during the night, lol), I close the safe and turn the dial.

Gun ownership is a huge responsibility. Thought needs to go into every aspect, which gun, how stored, what ammo, what training, what accessories, who has access, and more. If you choose to carry a concealed weapon, as I do, it adds a million more considerations. Most people who carry will tell you they are far more polite and patient when they are armed, because they do not want to be involved in an escalated situation that may require their gun to come into play.

The situation this OP brings up is tragic. There are a lot more, a father in my hometown shot and killed his son who came home from college unannounced one night.

Not everyone should own a gun, but everyone deserves the right!

reply to post by getreadyalready


You said it! Owning a firearm comes with responsibilities. Daily routines are to be followed religiously. If you are unable to understand this than you need not purchase a firearm.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by Digital_Reality]

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth

Originally posted by mommy4life
Very tragic.

Why oh why do people always believe these things could never happen to them? Ours are kept under lock and key due to the fact we have kids in the house. But to us that is just common sense. Just like we would never let our kids play in the street but some parents just don't think.

You don't let your kids play out in the street? Do you mean, in the "middle of a busy road", or do you mean the "middle of a quiet cul-de-sac"?

I mean in the middle of a busy road. The road in front of our house is busy all the time and that is what I was referring to when I wrote that. Keep forgetting you guys have no clue if I don't explain myself.