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Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'

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posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by UrsusMajor
 


You were responding directly to a post i was part of, I can't speak for what modern said or meant, only myself. I was referring to you saying that i was blaming soldiers, or disrespecting them...you won't find any post of mine doing either. I fully support soldiers who really understand where their duty and loyalty should be, and who are willing to recognize when they are being used as tools for evil...




posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

And now this!
Not many troops were part of this shameful act that has been going on for how many years again? They know this is happening, people who say support foreign occupation(troops abroad) still say it despite innocent troops staying under this corrupt umbrella. They are innocent, but they still stay active.


What is it that you would suggest the individual soldier do? Go AWOL? Now there is an effective solution....ummm....not really.


Originally posted by ModernAcademia

What if a killer was an employee of a mob gang, if he knew of the horrible things the mob gang did shouldn't he split?

Under the assumption that he was not legally bound to stick around, and under the assumption that he could simply hope on a commercial flight to his home country.

Likelihood is that the "mob gang" would do whatever it took to ensure that he would not "split". Which creates a perfect parallel to the legally binding oath that soldiers take under enlistment. By the way you should also be aware that reenlistment is now at a VERY low point.


Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Still many people have a thinking like: "I don't agree with the war whatsover but I still support those prolonging the war(soldiers)" makes no sense to me. These are people stuck in a paradox.

To say that the individual soldier is prolonging the war is akin to suggesting that each soldier has the ability to book a Delta Airlines flight back to the US. Or would you prefer them to refuse to pick up weapons and as a result be tried for treason and insubordination?
A failed argument merely suggests a problem; yet, it fails to provide a plausible solution.



[edit on 28-5-2009 by KingPen]

[edit on 28-5-2009 by KingPen]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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rape was the agenda? This is propaganda. The new war is on socialists and fascists. You're going down all you nazi europe lovers.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by KingPen
What is it that you would suggest the individual soldier do? Go AWOL? Now there is an effective solution....ummm....not really.

Not really?
Really?
It sure did help end the Vietnam war didnt', GI's refusing to continue fighting an immoral war.
Are you not glad the vietnam war ended?


Originally posted by KingPen
Likelihood is that the "mob gang" would do whatever it took to ensure that he would not "split". Which creates a perfect parallel to the legally binding oath that soldiers take under enlistment.

Take a look at my signature!


Originally posted by ModernAcademia
To say that the individual soldier is prolonging the war is akin to suggesting that each soldier has the ability to book a Delta Airlines flight back to the US.

Soldiers come home for a while and then go back don't they?
Your analogy implies that it's impossible as if Canada is not full of deserters.
Guess what?
It is!
Many soldiers in America also don't hide but refuse to return.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by UrsusMajor
 


You were responding directly to a post i was part of, I can't speak for what modern said or meant, only myself. I was referring to you saying that i was blaming soldiers, or disrespecting them...you won't find any post of mine doing either. I fully support soldiers who really understand where their duty and loyalty should be, and who are willing to recognize when they are being used as tools for evil...


My response was to this part of your post:

I have YET to see anybody treating soldiers poorly, besides the very government you fight for, as modern said...

I have no intention of responding to the agenda driven innuendo you added at the end of this last post.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:30 PM
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These photos are from investigations in abuses from 2003 to 2005. All those responsible have been punished.

The "rape" photos are fakes from a hardcore porn website that they tried to pass off as U.S. Military.

The contents of the photos have been pure speculation, no information or new photos have ever been leaked.

For a group of individuals that hate the media so much you certainly do hang on their every word. I thought people were innocent until proven guilty but I suppose we get to use that when and where we want to.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by TheEndofEvolution
 


Uhhh two pictures were from a porn site and is not at all one of the pictures Obama said he wouldn't release.

Those pics from the porn site started from a few stupid blogs.
They were photoshopped.

You are referring to something completely different.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


No I'm talking about the pictures that your website is alluding to. No information about them has been released. These rumored photos have been circulating the net for a while and they are crap.

Believe it when you see it, if you see it.

****

Regardless, these photos were gathered during criminal investigations. The soldiers involved have long been punished. Are you going to punish them twice for the same thing?

Obama did the right thing leaving it be. The photos would only incite more violence and more people would die that were not even involved in the abuses.



[edit on 28-5-2009 by TheEndofEvolution]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by jjkenobi
 


Well, if these actions took place despite there being such a small percentage of troops being deployed, I'd say that's more than a slight reason for concern. If it was a few people out of 10% or 20% total American troops, I'd say "okay - it's a few bad apples". It'll be "interesting" to see how the American public reacts to this. I guess when some people say F**K Iraq they literally mean it. Sheesh...



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


You know, I always love it when people say, "The soldiers should just desert!!"

Hey, willing to put up five or six guys in your own home? Feed them, clothe them, while they are on the run from federal authorities?

Yeah, I thought not.

Canada isn't "full of deserters" from Iraq. And deserters didn't cause the end of the Vietnam War, either.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by jd140
 

For those saying that you haven't seen pics yet
the statement is almost irrelevant ....
This is a telegraph article, they interviewed people, but you want to see pics.

Ok fine, let's say you do. You will still support the same thing now right?'
So why even mention it?
Rape was an agenda, it wasn't a few bad apples!


"A Telegraph article." So what?
What I've said before a dozen times works both ways: The messenger does not matter, it is the message that is the point!

What do they rely on? Someone who knows told someone who told a reporter who tells you. So, it MUST be true!
Reporters never lie, are infallible and would never exaggerate, right?

Obama says you're wrong:

"White House denies report on rape photos"

The White House is pushing back against a British press report claiming the latest round of detainee photos -- the ones they're not releasing -- contain images of rape.

"None of the photographs in question depict the images described in the article," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said. "Again, I -- I think if you do an even moderate Google search you're not going to find many of these newspapers and truth within, say, 25 words of each other."

www.washingtonexaminer.com...

Want a different "source?"

President Barack Obama's administration strongly denied a British report on Thursday that images of apparent rape and sexual abuse of Iraqi prisoners are among photographs that it is trying to prevent being made public.

In unusually forceful terms, the Pentagon attacked the report in the Daily Telegraph newspaper while the White House went so far as to cast doubt on the accuracy of the British press in general.

The Telegraph quoted retired U.S. Army Major General Antonio Taguba as saying the pictures showed "torture, abuse, rape and every indecency." Taguba conducted an investigation in 2004 into abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison.

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said the Telegraph had shown "an inability to get the facts right."

"That news organization has completely mischaracterized the images," he told reporters. "None of the photos in question depict the images that are described in that article."

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs went further.

"I think if you do an even moderate Google search you're not going to find many of these newspapers and truth within, say, 25 words of each other," he said.

news.yahoo.com...


And, of course, Gibbs, speaks for your President , and being a reporter, is never wrong, always tells the truth, is infallible and never exaggerates, right?

Point is, ALWAYS verify your source (the Telegraph, the reporter, Ret. Gen. Taguba) before you start calling for people's heads or volunteering politically poisoned opinions about someone's position, opinion, or character.

deny ignorance

jw


[edit on 28-5-2009 by jdub297]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Something about this makes absolutely zero sense.

I started thinking about this yesterday. The fact this was documented in such a manner makes zero sense.

[snip]

None of it makes any sense.

The pictures that havn't been released are far worse than rape. The CID report describes things that remind me of the film Hostel, including weird neo nazi crap.

It personally makes me absolutely disgusted. Part of it feels demonic and clearly evil.

There are unimaginable horrors going on in dark places and it is clearly insane.


None of it makes sense you are right. It feels like a setup, an inside setup for some unknown reason. America has been targeted as the fall guy for some insanely evil agenda. This seems to involve a lot of distraction so no one finds the truth.

Its no accident Iraq is the old civilization of Sumer. Someone wanted more than oil. maybe some very powerful objects used in ritual.

This entire century has not made any sense. I just want to wake up an find I have been having a really bad nightmare.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by UrsusMajor
My response was to this part of your post:

I have YET to see anybody treating soldiers poorly, besides the very government you fight for, as modern said...


Which was a response to this part of yours:

It's no different then the assholes who show up to throw things at the troops when they return from combat, regardless of where that may be.

I was stating that i have yet to see anybody throwing things at returning soldiers, not in these times. I wasn't alive during Nam. And if I did see that, I wouldn't mind watching the soldier punch them in the face. I've said that many times on this board.



I have no intention of responding to the agenda driven innuendo you added at the end of this last post.


Agenda driven? That word is SO overused. Yeah, my agenda is to state my valid opinion as an American citizen and a human being, online for others to validate and inflate my esteem, just like everybody else. We all get mad when others disagree, whatever. But I won't let you compare me to people who throw things at soldiers, who don't even exist anymore...



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'




How do you know?

NOTE: The title of the story itself says 'show rape'.

What about the "story," itself?


... an American soldier apparently raping ...

... photographs are said to depict sexual assaults ...

... Another apparently shows a female prisoner ...


It either is or it isn't. Using qualifiers like 'appaently', 'said to depict' and
'apparently shows' is an easy way to hide SPECULATION!

Did you NOT notice the qualifiers in the title? ' ... ' indicates that it is someone else's opinion!

Editors REQUIRE that unproven statements of fact be placed into quotes so that it can be attributed to someone else when facts are shown to be otherwise!

Do you people ever read? Have you never studied English, Journalism, logic, philosophy?

The title of the story is qualified by internal "quotes" to avoid responsibility for accuracy and mischaracterization!!!!!

We're over 12 hours into this thread and at least 5 years after the (alleged) fact.

Where's 1 picture?

You can't possibly believe that only a single print exists for every "damning" photo of U.S. military "atrocities." Can you?

ATS people are so good at taking CGI vids and clips and 'photos' and either claiming they are "absolute proof" or debunking them as worthless trash. Or so you claim.

(So far, the only 'photos' offered have been identified as, and acknowledged to be, trash.)

Yet here we are, challenging, accusing, dehumanizing each other and our soldiers without one single photo we can even argue about!

Wake up! Grow up! Do some decent inquiry. Get a fact. Or two. Or else, get a life.

Based on all 9 pages so far, I'm calling HOAX. Prove me wrong.

Deny ignorance!

jw
(edit to get pissed off about immaturity and ignorance)


[edit on 29-5-2009 by jdub297]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd

Yeah, my agenda is to state my valid opinion as an American citizen and a human being, online for others to validate and inflate my esteem, just like everybody else. We all get mad when others disagree, whatever. But I won't let you compare me to people who throw things at soldiers, who don't even exist anymore...


You are right. What you are doing is worse. Here is another of your gems:

If you are going to turn on the citizens of this country to follow the orders of those who hijacked it, YOU are an enemy of the USA, and you have chosen to IGNORE your oath to defend it.

This is calling every soldier in Iraq and Afghanistan a traitor. You are entitled to your opinion. When you use it to call law abiding soldiers traitors, I will compare you to whoever I want.

Google "Hanoi Jane". Friend of yours?


[edit] for those who may read the carefully placed edit in the post below, this is a strawman created in an equally misguided argument with another soldier who tok offence to his agenda. At least he hasn't accused me of being a "tough guy" yet. Just don't invite him to your house, he gets mad.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by UrsusMajor]

[edit on 28-5-2009 by UrsusMajor]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by UrsusMajor
This is calling every soldier in Iraq and Afghanistan a traitor. You are entitled to your opinion. When you use it to call law abiding soldiers traitors, I will compare you to whoever I want.


You know full well that is not what I meant with that statment. Make whatever ridiculous assumptions you like though. And you're right, compare away. I couldn't give a rats @ss.




Google "Hanoi Jane". Friend of yours?




edit: for others that may read the carefully selected quote above that the major here chose to make a false point, i was responding to a post regarding soldiers turning on American citizens because they disagree with the decisions of our leaders, it had NOTHING to do with soldiers in Afghanistan or Iraq, and was completely, and i believe knowingly quoted out of context.




[edit on 28-5-2009 by 27jd]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by Ron Paul Girl
 



Don't blame all of our soldiers for a few sickos among them. There are sickos among every group and the few sickos do not define the entire group.


that's the reason why many of american and europen citizens thougt after 9/11 that all the muslims are evil, vile, and terrorist!!!! there was few people who was saying don't put them all in the same bag, it's funny how this world work,it's funny how many people put all irakies in the same bag when GWB say let's go fight saddam for a fake reason nobody was realy thinking about the civilian, only revenge,ho yes it's true we bring them democracy!!! what a beautiful democracy they have now!!! we and i say we american and europen we should not be proud about what we'v done in the past, in present and surely in the future,we should think about the roots, how all of this start, the power build there fortune since a long time with blood and pain and they build a world fueled by revenge, we can choose to close our eyes we can choose to stay silent, but i think it's time to choose to not ignore them anymore and to admit that we made a mess on many country because only we had the power to do it and to face consequences, how many war are we going to do ? until we realize that we
Threats them, and naturaly if you Threat somone the result is...


i really hope, really really hope that one day we can talk all eatchothers
as human,but i know it's an utopia, the damage is done and now who have right or wrong, It does not matter, because we are not human anymore.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:53 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 11:01 PM
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Mate, just because the Whitehouse says its not true means absolutely nothing....!!

The US Administration has been caught lying soooo many times in recent years that it has no credibility anyway...and its word counts for nothing.

You see...thats the problem with telling lies.....nobody really likes you once you get caught....and everything you say thereafter ,whether true or not, is seen as a potential lie.

After the depraved, sickening Abu Ghraib photos, I would not be surprised if it is in fact true.

Major General Antonio Taguba authored the investigative report about abuses of Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib prison at the hands of American soldiers.

It is his assertion(having seen the photos) that they shouldnt be released...
"“The mere description of these pictures is horrendous enough, take my word for it.” he said.“These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency...."

Being interviewed by Seymour Hirsh,Taguba recalled, “I described a naked detainee lying on the wet floor, handcuffed, with an interrogator shoving things up his rectum...."

He also said that he saw “a video of a male American soldier in uniform sodomizing a female detainee.”

Yet Obamas Press Secretary says"None of the photographs in question depict the images described in the article...."

Surely the retired Major General has nothing to lose??
Why would he lie....??He wouldnt !! Why ?? Because having authored the report that soooo humiliated his Employers, losing military friends along the way during and after the Report, this guy has rocked so many boats, he has no need to rock 'em again...afterall it basically cost him his job!!

Does anybody else have a sense that something is not quite right here??

Somebody is lying??

I hope the pictures are released quite frankly...not because i am into torture porno, but their release will hit the average Joe over there like a tonne of bricks....which is perhaps necessary to wake up from their slumber...and also then allow the people of the USA to think long and hard about the direction the country is going...and who if anybody needs to be held accountable for these war crimes.....against men, women and CHILDREN.....yes CHILDREN....



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 11:08 PM
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Headline led me to beleive I was going to see these pics ??? wtf, you better deleiver now.




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