Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'

reply to post by 27jd


Whats worse.

Not releasing them and then have people say what was in it?

or

Releasing them?


These are not stupid people. If what these people are saying is true, then there is another reason for leaking that much.

reply to post by jkrog08


Why do YOU need to see anything?? Why does ANY GENERAL PERSON OF THE PUBLIC NEED TO SEE THESE PICTURES???

For example, let's say you have an uncle who is accused of raping your child, would you NEED TO SEE THE PICTURES TO BELIEVE IT HAPPENED????? WOULD YOU WANT TO SEE THE PICTURES??? The fact that you would even WANT to see them is gross... Why can't ONE person view them, and then report to the masses that the pictures are indeed real? WHY???????

How does that make me ignorant to NOT WANT TO SEE, but the people who do are not?????

reply to post by jkrog08


And how is being a member of ATS have anything to do with this?? Has anyone POSTED those pictures?? If they did, I am SURE YOU would click click click on the link....

reply to post by jd140


I didn't say ONLY inmates.........The majority are however. The rapes that occur b/w guard and inmate are usually in female prisons. While the majority rapes being homosexual in nature occur b/w inmates in the male system.

reply to post by scrubsnstuffkim



We don't need to see those pics, but someone does in order to convict a person of rape.

If they are indeed real then they are evidence and as sick as it is they must be viewed by a jury. Until then it is just speculation.

reply to post by jkrog08

Because the prison rapes in the US are carried out by other inmates, and NOT by the guards.

And may I ask who stands by and lets one inmate rape another inmate.

It is all a part of the system.

Why should a guard care about what happens to a low life scum?

Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by jam321

 

Because the prison rapes in the US are carried out by other inmates, and NOT by the guards.

Right there you said that rape is carried out by inmates only.

NOT BY THE GUARDS.

So yes you did say by the inmates only.

reply to post by scrubsnstuffkim


I am not even about to get into this with you. But it is called freedom of CHOICE. You may be willing to take another's word on something, but in something this SERIOUS I am not. Apparently you do not either or you wouldn't be a ATS member. If you can't figure out why I brought up ATS in my reply then you might want to google analogy.

reply to post by jd140


Yes, exactly, something NEEDS to be done, but not everyone needs to be privy to those pics...

reply to post by jd140



My fault then, I thought I said something else. Thanks for pointing that out.

Will edit accordingly.

reply to post by jam321


You are right, but a lot of times the number of inmates to gaurd is so high that they can not watch everyone at all times. These are grown men here, rather if they are criminals or not.

reply to post by jkrog08


So, by you personally seeing the pictures it is supposed to do something? You have that power? Excuse me....

You are COMPLETELY getting me wrong... being informed of what the government or TPTB are doing/not doing has nothing to do with the graphic nature of those particular pictures. How can you even compare the two??? It's like comparing apples to monkeys...

reply to post by jam321


Yeah, I definitely know what you're saying, but never said it was only Abu Ghraib in which children are abused. The story, as it's going around, is that when the soldiers rounded up houses full of people, they took in the mothers, the children, etc. to sort everybody out, and then children were raped in front of their mothers in order to get them to drop dimes on insurgentsm, and that there may have been CIA involvement. That said, I'm sure the jevenile system here is a nightmare, and I hope my children make the right choices and stay the hell out of it.

reply to post by jd140


Well, when you're dealing with poor masses who do not speak english, or have access to our media, computers, etc. it would be hard for them on a large scale to get the verbal news, but pictures are a different story, they are much easier to spread and as they say, they are worth a thousand words. I know it would raise my rage levels to actually see the pics, after I was done puking.

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by 27jd

 

Don't recall acting tough at all. I have not attacked you in anyway. I gave you the oppurtunity to act on your words. I expect people to back what they say.

If you can show me where I have posted a tough guy post then please show me. If you want I can point you to a few of your own.

I don't personally want to see these pictures, but if they exist then the soldiers in them need to be put on trial and the pictures shown to the jury. There is proof of torture at Abu Grabi. Pictures showing such has put away people that called themselves soldiers. It happened and we saw the proof. I have not seen any proof of this allegation. So I reserve my judgement.

I support your stance 100% jd. Those of us who have a military connection understand where you are coming from. It's no different then the assholes who show up to throw things at the troops when they return from combat, regardless of where that may be. A person has the gonads to stand up and serve his country, he is sent to God knows where and does the best job he can.

When he returns to the country he fought for, he is treated like garbage.

No child should face what "may" have happened in an Iraqi prison.

No innocent soldier should carry the blame for the guilty ones.

Perspective required.

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
When he returns to the country he fought for, he is treated like garbage.

I can empathize with you here
You go fight for the american govt. then when you come back as a vet you either end up being homeless or the DHS calls you a potential terroist.
Or you end up having suicidal thoughts and all you get is 1800 number.

It's not fair I agree.
The best you can do is spread the word.
There are still more young recruits that can hear your story before it's too late.

reply to post by UrsusMajor


Now that you got that out of the way, go ahead and read the rest of the thread and just maybe you'll see there is no soldier blaming or disrespect going on here. I have YET to see anybody treating soldiers poorly, besides the very government you fight for, as modern said...

Originally posted by jam321
I will ask these questions again.

How is this prison any different than most prisons in the US? Are prisoners not raped, abused, and tortured in our own prisons?

Could it be that what happened in Iraq evolved from our own prison system that view inmates as scums, slime bags, liars, low life no good for nothing, and many other similar terms?

Wow...Thank you. Honestly, I feel like a dip you-know-what now. You made a very valid point and I will now be keeping my mouth quiet on the matter because you're right. Where's the outrage about what is happening in the prisons just miles away from some of us?

My ONLY counter remark to what you say is that what is happening to the prisoners in these detention centers is what is continuing to fuel the fire for the Taliban. THAT'S why they don't want to let anyone free. If they do, they go running home telling mommy and daddy (aka the Taliban) what the mean boy (America) down the street just did to them and mommy or daddy will want to have a "talk" (blow something or someone or both up) with them.

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
After reading through these threads and most of the Iraq or "terrorism" threads, it's really not hard to see how Nazis came to power and how they stayed in power. Some of the posts in this thread on bordering on insane.

Indeed.

When I first joined this site I was encouraged and excited at the prospect of debate between open-minded intellectuals (I don't class myself as that by the way), which it was for the most part. What really opened my eyes were threads such as these, more so than anything else. I see so much anger and closed-mindedness it's frightening, criticism of the military is one of the ultimate sins for many. In fact, if you haven't served yourself then it is usually claimed you have no grounds to complain (due to a lack of understanding) and/or are somehow a lesser citizen.

There is no debate with these people, reason and logic goes out of the window - which is why I just don't bother any more and let them carry on. However, I do think of ways to try and break the status quo... so far I've come up with nothing. What will it take? Can it be done?

How can you educate a person who virtually condones child rape via a lack of inaction or belief? All the evidence is there for the public bar the photographs themselves, and even if they were released would the aforementioned people believe then or would the next course of action be rationalisation (ie; we needed the information otherwise more innocent citizens of my home country would have been murdered)?

It's a sad state of affairs my friends, keep fighting for what's right.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by Goathief]

Originally posted by Goathief
I see so much anger and closed-mindedness it's frightening, criticism of the military is one of the ultimate sins for many. In fact, if you haven't served yourself then it is usually claimed you have no grounds to complain (due to a lack of understanding) and/or are somehow a lesser citizen.

haha
You took the words out of my mouth so star for u

I honestly don't mean to offend anyone but sometimes these people seem like zombies to me

Not because they are brainless but because I see such a slave mentality it's scary.

But it's not only soldiers either, many are stuck in a paradox where they are against the war but support the troops.

It's like racists saying they have black friends, just much much worse.

A wise man once said dissent is the highest form of patriotism.

I honestly think that the word patriotism needs to be defined to these people.

Once it's defined for them, you will be able to get through to them.