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Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'

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posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
Some of you here and around the world would like to see nothing more then America fall flat on its face, well kiss my red, white, and blue arse it wont happen as long as people like me draw breathe.

You seem to be confused

What people are against in this thread is exactly what is making America fall flat on it's face.

You are very confused.

I don't want America to fall flat on it's face, I want it to be as it once was.
I want no more immoral wars that is bankrupting the country.
I don't want people to hate the country anymore.

And people will say I hate the country because they think disagreeing with immoral invasions, supplying Israel with white phosphorus, counterfeiting money in the trillions is anti-american.

WOW




posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Abu Ghraib is long over and the offending parties have been tried and punished. What possible reason other than propaganda for an enemy or pure voyeurism could anyone have for bringing it up or posting more photo's?

How many threads on this do we need on one board?



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by jd140
I wouldn't shoot you. I'm to pretty for jail.




Yeah, but you're so tough I'm sure all the other inmates would give you a wide berth, remember, humans have a natural fear of you?...j/k



I don't understand where you get that I follow orders blindly. I asked for proof of this allegation.


Well, I agree for the most part, but HOW can we get the absolute proof you are asking for, when the very people who hand down these disgusting orders are the same ones in charge of the investigations??



I see post after post of people posting articles about someone being arrested for terroism and immediatly everyone yells for proof.


You won't find any of those posts from me. Islamic fundamentalists are real and they are a threat, but not as big a threat as those who use them as the bogey man, while raping the entire planet...



It seems like our rights as Americans is for everyone,even non Americans, but not the military.


Again, something I've never said personally. I have nothing but respect for soldiers who maintain their personal identity and who realize our leaders aren't always in it for the American people, themselves included. They USE you guys as tools, not to defend our nation, but to defend their bank accounts and cash flow. I'm just as angry at those giving these illegal and disgusting orders, as I am those who actually do the raping and abusing. But they WALK every time.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
Dude you cant argue with liberals who think there right and America is so dead wrong. You just cant they know it all.....


Wow, poed, that wasn't predictable or anything, lol. I'm not a "liberal", but thanks for playing...



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by jd140

It seems like our rights as Americans is for everyone,even non Americans, but not the military.




Actually i think your right. People in the military do not have rights any more. They have to do whatever the govt tells them or face court martial.

Rather than getting a jury + fair trial, in the military you go see a military court (super unfair) etc

Hilarious yet Ironic.


Your wrong, Soldiers do not have to follow orders that are morally wrong, and will be protected. If an officer or nco orders you to shoot an unarmed man or rape someone that is an order that is unlawful. Soldiers are discipline, well 98 percent of us are, we go places and do things no one else wants to do. Soldiers understand that some you may have to do things that you don’t feel like doing, or you have to wake up at 530 to go do PT. That’s Lawful Orders that have to be followed or else theres no sense in a military. Because there cowards, chickens, peaceful people, not fit for duty, whatever the reason is we go do it so you don’t have to.


Now don’t get me wrong, if you haven’t served or never want to serve that’s fine by me and your choice I don’t look at you any differently. However, when you criticize the entire military for the actions of a few I take offense to that.



(Modern America) For whatever reason you hate this country I got that, that’s your right. But uhh I don’t see you trying to fix it.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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To the three of you (you know who you are) who are using this thread as a "whose balls are bigger" match. Maybe you should take it somewhere else? There is such a thing as a U2U.

I don't know if these accusation are true or not. I don't know if there are pictures to prove it. What I do know is that regardless of innocent until proven guilty, I have an opinion on the matter if this disgusting thing were true and I'm allowed to express it without a blanket response of "prove it, then get back to me".

Yes, this is all speculation so far. We also have to weight the evidence we DO have:

1. Testimony from witnesses
2. Government officials doing an about-face on the release of the photos once they realized what was in the photos
3. Previously released photos showing troops stripping prisoners naked and piling them on top of each other while taking a picture (so there goes you're "why would they take pictures of these types of offenses" defense)
4. The worst of all--several stories of troops raping THEIR OWN FELLOW SOLDIERS. If they would rape their own fellow soldier, why wouldn't they rape an "enemy combatant"?

Evidence for #1:

Actual Witness statement

Evidence for #2:

Source



A former U.S. general said graphic images of rape and torture are among the photos of Iraqi prisoner abuse that President Barack Obama's administration does not want released.

Retired Major Gen. Antonio Taguba, who oversaw the U.S. investigation into the abuses at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison, was quoted as telling Britain's Daily Telegraph in an article Wednesday that he agreed with Obama's decision not to release the pictures.


Evidence for #3:

You can find plenty of images here (toward the bottom)-- Warning: They are very disturbing, but all body parts have been blurred out.

Evidence for #4:

Source




According to the new report, more than 1,400 investigations into sex assault cases dating to 2004 were completed last year. In slightly more than half, commanders took no action, most often because the charges were not substantiated or lacked evidence.

When action was taken, more than one-third — or 292 individuals — were court-martialed. An additional 243 received nonjudicial punishment and 245 either were discharged or received some other administrative action. Nonjudicial punishments can include reprimand letters or demotions.



Source



"Three out of every 100 military women say that they were sexually assaulted. That compares to – the equivalent civilian rate for women that age – it’s about 3 in a thousand," says Berkowitz. "So if the defense department numbers are right, the problem in the military could be as much as 10 times the civilian problem."


And the very infamous case: The Murder of Maria Lauterbach

So I suppose we can assume innocent until proven guilty, but, so far, if this were the evidence in a court case, it's looking pretty darn bleak for these offenders.

My take? I think that the military finds some pretty sadistic mofo's that are part of the military. I don't believe that this is a wide spread problem. I do believe that there are some sick people in the military that join because they look forward to killing and raping, because what better place to do it and get away with it then in the military? So the higher ups find these sickos and throw them in these prisons and basically say, "Do with them what you will. We need you to break their souls for us."

Edit to fix link

[edit on 28-5-2009 by nunya13]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 



All wars are Immoral rather you want to hear it or not. Saddam got what he deserved for 13 years he played a deadly cat and mouse game with the world over his WMD programs. All he had to do was give them up but no he wanted to play games, because during the Clinton years we talked and didn’t do anything, even the first few years of Bush there was a lot of talk and very little action. Then some Assclowns fly planes in to are buildings in the name of "Allah" If I was President, When I hit Baghdad I would have done a pivot turn and rolled to Tehran.

News Flash People are going to hate America Regardless of what happens, you think one day some one woke up and said oh I think I will attack America today? No that hate us because they aint us. They don’t have what we do and there jealous. There jealous because we are a land of immigrants, poor peasants, and slaves and we have risen to be the most powerful nation in the world, That’s why they hate us, They hated us after WWII, They will hate us after the war on terror, they will always find a reason to hate us.

We supply Israel with weapons because they have been attacked by there neighbors on a daily bases HAMAS and Hezbollah are supplied by Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and maybe indirectly China and Russia. So we are there benefactors plain and simple that will never stop.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

I don't want America to fall flat on it's face, I want it to be as it once was.
I want no more immoral wars that is bankrupting the country.
I don't want people to hate the country anymore.

WOW



So you are helping out by posting the hundredth thread on an old topic.

That seems pretty disingenuous. When you want something to settle, you stop stirring the pot. When you want to keep something going you do what you are doing.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by 27jd
 


The proof not being made public is the fault of the current administration, not the soldiers.

If they did not want these pictures made public then they should never had brought them up. We don't know what these pictures shows and for them to say we have them, but you can't see them only adds to the fuel that they show rape.

Do they show rape? I don't know, I won't assume that they do or don't. Has rape occured? Most likely it has, rape happens in every war. The public never gets the whole story.

Example. Jessica Lynch was raped by her captors, but the military didn't release that info. She did in her book. I was stationed in Landstuhl Germany when she got there. I worked in the hospital and saw her charts. I was informed not to say anything about it if interviewed.

Were they trying to protect the enemy? They released all her other injuries, why not that one?

The fact is that the general public doesn't get all the info good or bad. Unless you are a witness to it you will never know what really happens one way or another.

That is why I take everything I read with a grain of salt. You get part of the story but not all of it. Do these pictures show worse then what was released a few years ago? Probably. Do they show rape? Who knows, but who are we to say they do without proof?



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by nunya13
 


I keep hearing people saying the military this or that.

Most of the people directly involved were Reservists from Maryland.

They were regular people. Everyday Americans with normal jobs.

The rest were Contractors, CIA, and Iraqi translators.

These were the guys who got their hands dirty.

There were a few active duty personnel involved from an MI brigade but the real dirty work was done by normal Americans.


Out of all of this don't forget it was also an average American Reservist from Maryland who exposed it to CID. If it hadn't been for him, no one would have ever known.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
So you are helping out by posting the hundredth thread on an old topic.

That seems pretty disingenuous. When you want something to settle, you stop stirring the pot. When you want to keep something going you do what you are doing.



ummm this is breaking news section
this is breaking news

rape was not part of the older threads

and me not talking about it wont let it settle
it is not up to me to settle it
I am not stationed or ever was in abu Ghraib

thx

have a nice day



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by nunya13
 


It's really easy to understand. The Left won the election but they are such hotheads they are still campaigning. To call them sore winners would be an understatement.

They are campaigning right now for the mid-terms so they have people all over the Internet stirring up hatred.

I'm not even a Republican and I'm starting to get really offended by these tactics. I think it will blow up in their faces. I think most people are sick of this sore winner scenario. They have complete control of the Government and even that is not enough.

People who care about America don't spend their day's bashing it and promoting propaganda against it. They don't weaken us by constantly posting things that stir up hatred against us and that endanger Soldiers lives, which this thread does. I don't think they care if the Soldiers live or die or they would not post this nonsense. They do seem to care about the Terrorists however.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


The Democratic operatives have flooded the news with this for weeks. Do a Google. Breaking News this is not. This particular article may be new but the story is weeks old. It's a bubble gum topic as its been chewed over and over again. It's to divert attention from the mess being made of our Government right now. They have already spent my Great Grandchildren's futures and they want to divert attention so they pull Abu Ghraib out their backsides.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
They are campaigning right now for the mid-terms so they have people all over the Internet stirring up hatred.

That may be their agenda
I don't disagree
but that's not why I made this thread despite what you may think


Originally posted by Blaine91555
I think most people are sick of this sore winner scenario. They have complete control of the Government and even that is not enough.

I think most people are tired of partisan terms like left or right.
Who cares!!!!!
What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong!

People following one party over individuals are sheeple.


Originally posted by Blaine91555
People who care about America don't spend their day's bashing it and promoting propaganda against it.

Where's the propoganda?


Originally posted by Blaine91555
They don't weaken us by constantly posting things that stir up hatred against us and that endanger Soldiers lives, which this thread does. I don't think they care if the Soldiers live or die or they would not post this nonsense. They do seem to care about the Terrorists however.

What a backwards perspective.
You are being weakened not by this thread but by corruption.

What endangers the lives of soldiers is being where they shouldn't!

I do care for good soldiers, I care about life period!

Which terroists? The one who had no fair trials?
How do you know they were terroists?

Do you even know what is happening in your own country now?

I've always said, they called the entire middle east terroists, it's only a matter of time that they do the same to the american people who believed this crap.

Hello DHS



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


"Which terroists? The one who had no fair trials?"

You are doing the same thing as the people you claim are corrupt.

Yes they are held without a fair trial. They are being labeled guilty without proof and a fair trial.

You are labeling these soldiers as guilty without proof and a fair trial.

The government offers no proof and only their word that they are guilty. You are offering no proof and only others word that this has happened.

You are doing the same thing as the government that you claim is corrupt.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by jd140
The proof not being made public is the fault of the current administration, not the soldiers.


The current administration, as well as the past administrations, are exactly who I was saying the main enemies to us ALL are. They are NOT Americans like us, they don't give a CRAP about us, at all. We are their livestock, whether we are soldiers, or workers. They think (or know) they own us, and we accept that, as a whole.



Were they trying to protect the enemy? They released all her other injuries, why not that one?


That one is obvious, they were protecting her privacy. Rape is a very personal issue, there would have been a crap storm if they released that info without her consent...


Unless you are a witness to it you will never know what really happens one way or another.


Right, but there were witnesses to the rape of young boys. Their own mothers were forced to watch, allegedly...are we to assume they are ALL terrorist scum who are lying, just cuz they are Iraqis??



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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After reading through these threads and most of the Iraq or "terrorism" threads, it's really not hard to see how Nazis came to power and how they stayed in power. Some of the posts in this thread on bordering on insane. I'm just happy most of the crazy #s are in the south safely away from our government and economy where they can be morbidly obese, shop at wal-mart, fly American flags, and scream about Jesus safely away from any part of this country that matters.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by 27jd
 


She was also ordered not to release that info, should have included that. The privacy act covers all injuries, not just rape. She has to give the OK to release info.

The past administration released some of the pictures and kept quite about the rest. This administration stated they had more pictures and refused to release them. That does more harm then keeping quite about them.

The reaction now is harsher then what it would have been if they had said this is what the pictures show, these are the soldiers who are involved and they are either already serving their sentance(which is most likely the case) or they are being held.

Instead Obama left us with a cliff hanger to let our imaginations run wild. That is what starts things like this post.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
It's to divert attention from the mess being made of our Government right now.




Now? How bout for the past 60 years?

I swear, you, poedvet, etc. must work for Obama. Just kidding, mostly, but WHY oh WHY do you guys continue to push the "liberal" vs. "conservative" BS? You DO realize that is EXACTLY how they keep us all controlled, don't you? Divide and conquer. Be more afraid of the gay marrying, god hating "liberals" or the gun toting, religious fanatic "conservatives" than the corrupt theives who manipulate all of us while pretending to embrace one side or the other. WHEN will you all realize that? We are all a bit of this and that, depending on our upbringing, but we should ALL stand against those who are exploiting us...



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by jd140
 


Maj Gen Taguba's internal inquiry into the abuse at Abu Ghraib, included sworn statements by 13 detainees, which, he said in the report, he found credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses.



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