Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'

reply to post by BlasteR


Thanks for posting that, it's always great to watch that man so effectively cut through the BS. Awesome.

And to those bringing up that this is old news, that's all well and good, but it wasn't just a few pervs that were responsible for what happened, and probably still happens over there. The ones TRULY responsible are still not only free, but very likely still giving orders. We know how they like to use lower level military and guard personnel as fall guys, that should anger all of you in the military. What if some ass from the CIA ordered you to rape or abuse a detainee under the threat of disciplinary action or even bodily harm? Then, once the sh!t hit the fan back home because it leaked, they throw you under the bus. That's the thanks THEY would give you, but instead of seeing that, alot of you choose to get angry at those of us who really do care about our troops, for rallying against those who use you for their personal gains.

Originally posted by Damien_uk
Dont believe some people from miles away who openly says they want to kill you and your kids over someone who joined the military and is willing to fight so you dont have too.

I'm sorry, but just because they are from miles away, doesn't make them ALL liars. And about the "willing to fight so you don't have to" comment, I have my own arsenal and am MORE than willing to fight to help protect our country and our freedoms from an invading force. I chose not to join the military because I am strongly against what our government has become (nothing but an extension of corporate interests), and personally I really don't like being locked into anything. I'm not cut out for the cohesion, regardless of circmstance, that the military demands. And when we try to fight, to protect our borders, we become criminals. You fight because they won't let us.

Originally posted by SOXMIS
Please refer back to my post on page 10 and you'll see soldiers are indeed trained in torture. I'd suggest you get acquainted with someone who has more experiance in these matters. I also believe if you havent commited an offence but are involved with illegal activities you are guilty by association.

We are talking about US soldiers.

Be ashamed of your own country, but don't try to tell people that the US military as a whole does this type of thing because its normal for your military.

Keep it in house.

Originally posted by benoni
For the record...

I dont hate Amerikans...just the countries foreign policy...

And if i was amerikan(which i am not)..i would still hate amerikas foreign policy...
See??
Not anti amerikan...anti foreign policy....

Oh, also, i hate the Amerikans who believe they are the master race...which clearly, given the mess its in, is impossible.
These people need to understand that this hatred, to be found worldwide, is fuelled not through envy or jealousy, but because amerikans have this superiority complex which the rest of the world sees straight thru...

Maybe a bit more humility is also needed ....


I just cant understand the naivety of some of the above posters.....your policies are rotten to the core...rotten!!

The US is historically a white Christian country. It has also become the most economically an militarily strongest nation in the world.

It's foreign policies, often misguided and self-serving, have not been in the name of white Christianity. These policies are shared by non-Christian non-American non-white Westernized nations as well. Japan, India, South Korea, Israel, Australia, most of Europe, parts of Latin America, South America, Africa.

They are based on global economic issues, not attempts to impose rule based on ethnic superiority. Some choose to believe that.


Mike

Originally posted by benoni
Mate, just because the Whitehouse says its not true means absolutely nothing....!!
...

Being interviewed by Seymour Hirsh,Taguba recalled, “I described a naked detainee lying on the wet floor, handcuffed, with an interrogator shoving things up his rectum...."

He also said that he saw “a video of a male American soldier in uniform sodomizing a female detainee.”

Yet Obamas Press Secretary says"None of the photographs in question depict the images described in the article...."

Surely the retired Major General has nothing to lose??
Why would he lie
...
Does anybody else have a sense that something is not quite right here??

Somebody is lying??

I do not believe the Whitehouse. I do not believe the OP. I do not believe the Telegraph.

I'm only pointing out that if you look behind what the OP and the Telegraph sayis the truth, you may find out that something different really is the truth!

If you read my post on p.12, Taguba disputes both of these 'sources.'

This thread is nothing more than a rant if no one is willing to consider what the facts are BEFORE they draw, (or worse, rely on what others say they are) their OWN conslusions.

What a waste of bandwidth.

jw

yeah, and if we look behind what the Telegraph is saying, we might not find anything at all other than the Telegraph is telling the truth....or, worse still, we may find that this whole sick tale is but the tip of a much bigger iceberg...and, as i personally suspect, the tentacles that run off from this story head in the direction of the military top brass....

Pointing out what may be found is like pointing out what may not be found....its pointless....

If Amerika choose to ignore this Horror it does so at its peril....
brushing it under the carpet will not fix it....

jd140, it is well known amongst every soldier who has worked alongside the American military that their excesses far outweigh all other fighting forces in any situation you care to mention. The American military are trained in these same techniques, maybe not all but then why would a chef or a mechanic require skills in torture? If a soldier is not capable in killing and torture of the enemy then he (or she) is not a soldier. You are guilty of naivety if you believe the atrocities being carried out, in your name, are done so by a few bad apples. Its rife, war is a dirty, immoral game with no rules. These commercial conflicts are without a doubt the worse cases in modern history and they are still continuing, and expanding. If the media told you the half of it you'd either choke on your own patriotism or get a boner depending on your paradigm. Denying this goes on is condoning it. Lets hope the worm doesnt turn and you dont find these same people defending your country, in other countries, coming home to defend your leaders from you.

Soldiers are brainwashed and kill people for a living. They follow orders and that makes them followers. Be a leader of your own mind and realize that we were lead into Iraq and we were fooled. Most soldiers know that & they're stuck over there hot and miserable and going coo coo and coming home without legs or arms. Thank President Bush for that.

This is only the stuff that got loose, I can’t even begin to imagine the truly horrific stuff them "fine young men/women" are doing over there in the name of the people of the USA. Well over 1 million dead, some go as far as saying 3 million. And if it is 3 million that’s a third of the Jews killed in the holo hoax. Shouldn’t you be holding a trial? Oh right you have been kept safe from those dangerous people six thousand miles away living in caves, and mud huts. That’s right your government made sure they didn’t have to repeat the false fla.....oh ....uh hum no one else attacked you. Trade you freedom for security, trade it all in till you’re in a cage protected from the word and yourselves....but wait why am I writing this #, I learnt it from YOUR founding fathers and I’m not even a yank.
The good lord says ill make it, but he’s pretty sure your #ed “Breaveheart”

reply to post by SOXMIS


Your funny have you ever been in combat and im not talking about a video game. You have no point of reference do you.In reality and most people who have seen combat will agree the reason you kill is to survive and get rid of the other persons ability to harm you or other fellow soldiers because the enemy is trying to kill you. Now as for what most soldiers believe will discuss Iraq there there to help the people of iraq even if the soldier thinks the war was started falsely are main purpose was to rebuild the country.

Ive seen 1st hand some of the things that Saddam had done you would be horrified and quite frankly makes Abu Graib look like a picnic. Now There is all ways stupidity in the military even the specialist that took the photos thought most of what they had done was funny i attribute a large part of this to her immaturity and lack of morals however the government does hold fault in this as well. They hired outside companies to conduct interrogations on prisoners my god they automatically are accountable to no one. Next they put a reserve unit in charge of Abu Graib these people didn't have the training to deal with the situations they came across. They were put under massive stress prisoners were being brought to them day after day and trust me having captured some of these people myself i assure you there was times i wanted to beat the hell out of them or worse but luckily i maintained professionalism and did my job. There is always people that will be unable to do this and with there lack of training and inability to handle the horors they were subjected to people broke and badly.

Not all the soldiers there did these acts it was only a few but had some far reaching effects as we see. Heres the problem and the number one reason these abuses occurred.No one bothered to oversee these people they allowed them to run the prisoners part of the problem with reserve units has always and will always be that there chain of command is lax allowing one individual to circumvent the system.What these soldiers were doing they thought was funny but when i read the testimonies i quickly realized they really didn't grasp what the interrogators were doing. And you know what there was soldiers that did and filed reports. The problem was the interrogations were not being conducted by the military were they they were being done by two contractors who would do whatever they needed to to get results to warrant the fact the government is paying them!

Originally posted by humilisunus
This is only the stuff that got loose, I can’t even begin to imagine the truly horrific stuff them "fine young men/women" are doing over there in the name of the people of the USA. Well over 1 million dead, some go as far as saying 3 million. And if it is 3 million that’s a third of the Jews killed in the holo hoax.

You don't believe the holocaust happened, yet you believe that possibly 3 million Iraqis were killed. Got a source for these outlandish figures???

Originally posted by outsmartme
Soldiers are brainwashed and kill people for a living.

Oh, really? Brainwashed, huh? What a joke.

Originally posted by outsmartme
Most soldiers know that......

Do they? How do you know this? Obviously, you aren't in the military, so how do you know what the troops are thinking???

Originally posted by SOXMIS
jd140, it is well known amongst every soldier who has worked alongside the American military that their excesses far outweigh all other fighting forces in any situation you care to mention. The American military are trained in these same techniques, maybe not all but then why would a chef or a mechanic require skills in torture? If a soldier is not capable in killing and torture of the enemy then he (or she) is not a soldier.

So, they have some sort of special class they teach troops when they first enlist in torture? Do you have any proof of this?

Originally posted by SOXMIS
You are guilty of naivety if you believe the atrocities being carried out, in your name, are done so by a few bad apples.

Well, they are. Math quiz. How many troops have rotated into the AOR? How many have been busted for any sort of mistreatment of POWs or civilians??

Originally posted by benoni

If Amerika choose to ignore this Horror it does so at its peril....
brushing it under the carpet will not fix it....

What we sweep under the carpet has the disconcerting habit of creeping out the other side.

Originally posted by antonia
What we sweep under the carpet has the disconcerting habit of creeping out the other side.

So true, but one should ask that poster whether his/her country does the same, and whether the same corporate interests that pull the strings of our government, pull theirs as well. We have every right to question our government, and ask our military to represent us in a professional manner, but as far as I'm concerned those on the outside looking down their noses at us need to worry about their house, and let us worry about ours.

reply to post by 27jd


I completely disagree withe whole idea these people should mind their own business. Our government is bombing people left and right. it's everyone's damn business. I do agree people shouldn't walk around thinking they are better because they don't live in America but i am perfectly ok with people being concerned with what we do.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by antonia]

reply to post by antonia


I never said they should "mind their own business", but we are not the only country involved in these recent wars, and we definitely are not the only country being manipulated and controlled. We are just the main scapegoat in the global arena, because we are the most powerful, currently. Other countries routinely do horrible things to poor people, but we are the country the rest of the world loves to hate. Like I said, they need to worry about their houses, before worrying about ours. Once their governments act solely for the good of mankind, then they will have all the right in the world to bash "Amerika" (with the 'k' it looks more fascist), until then they are hypocrites.

Originally posted by 27jd
Like I said, they need to worry about their houses, before worrying about ours. Once their governments act solely for the good of mankind, then they will have all the right in the world to bash "Amerika" (with the 'k' it looks more fascist), until then they are hypocrites.

I agree with you on that
But I also agree that this is not an easy request

It's hard to tell Pakistan to fix their house first when U.S. Put mussarraf into power when he had less than 4% of votes. Then he took power and became a military dictator.

Before this happened, Pakistan was way more stable than it is now
it was never perfect
but better than this

Remember the crowd behind Bhutto, A WOMAN?
She had supporters wanting democracy, huge crowds supporting this woman further than the eye could see.

Supporting a woman to the ends of earth and wanting democracy so bad
Not exactly what the media portrays about them eh?

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Remember the crowd behind Bhutto, A WOMAN?
She had supporters wanting democracy, huge crowds supporting this woman further than the eye could see.

Supporting a woman to the ends of earth and wanting democracy so bad
Not exactly what the media portrays about them eh?

Yeah, that really is unfortunate what happened to her. She seemed like she would have been a good leader, but you know the Taliban would have killed her eventually. I agree that my government has made quite a few messes, I couldn't agree more. But again we're not the only ones doing this, Russia does it, China does it, the UK does it, everybody with any real global influence does it. This is a global agenda, and the key players are not all sitting in the US.

Our "leaders" make out with each other, while convincing us to hate each other, they laugh behind closed doors at us all, like kids shaking a jar of bugs to make them fight. I want my country to be as great as it can be, and constructive criticism is fine, but some of the outright insults get real old. Ya know?

Originally posted by 27jd
I agree that my government has made quite a few messes, I couldn't agree more. But again we're not the only ones doing this, Russia does it, China does it, the UK does it, everybody with any real global influence does it. This is a global agenda, and the key players are not all sitting in the US.

Of course the UK does it too
but most of those countries mentioned do it locally within their own countries
their corruption isn't global, it's within the country

Originally posted by 27jd
Our "leaders" make out with each other, while convincing us to hate each other, they laugh behind closed doors at us all, like kids shaking a jar of bugs to make them fight. I want my country to be as great as it can be, and constructive criticism is fine, but some of the outright insults get real old. Ya know?

Ya it's like Jesse Ventura said
Politics is like wrestlign, they pretend to hate each othe but are all friends in the locker room.

The insults are like a broken record, but at the same time it's not mentioning the same thing over and over again.
There's new current events everyday to speak of.

But you just should just remember
People being anti-american govt. shouldn't give you shame

Out all the entire globe, americans giving to charities is very much something to spothlight.

Just be happy that you aren't in China, where the people allow oppression.
It's taking so long in the U.S. because they wouldn't just allow it.

These are the things to be proud of!

Did you see the young american teenagers protesting during the republican covention?
AMAZING!