Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'

Originally posted by network dude
And when I made my comment about leaving if you didn't like it, I meant it. You do have that option. You also have the option to stay here and bad mouth the soldiers that protect you. The reason you have that option is because they make sure you can.

I know you meant it, and I meant it when I said you have the "option" of moving to one of the many countries where questioning the actions government and military are not tolerated, you'd probably be happier there. Nobody is "badmouthing" the soldiers, we are "badmouthing" rape and torture, so if that automatically links all soldiers to the point you all have to rush to the defense of pedophiles and rapists, well there's something to think about, IMO. Like Modern said, the military hasn't 'made sure we can' since WWII. You know, the last war where we fought an actual standing military, that was an actual threat to our freedoms. Everything since has been misguided adventures initiated by corrupt politicians and war-profiteers against poor nations that had NO ability to threaten our freedoms, and nobody high up in the military is standing up to them, just letting themselves be sacrificied so the few ultra rich sons of bitches that call all the shots can get richer, and veterans have to FIGHT just to get decent healthcare. In fact, now you fight for a government that is taking away our freedoms.

edit: interesting Rage quote you have there, you must just think it looks cool, huh?



[edit on 29-5-2009 by 27jd]

reply to post by 27jd


You are getting the troops and the leaders mixed up. The button pushers/puppet masters do whatever they do for reasons we don't know. Greed? Oil? Money? power? You have as much idea about the why as I do. But make no mistake, if we did nothing since WW2, we would all have real cool stories to tell our grand kids about the invasion of Texas, or the time the Russian army invaded the northern US from Canada. I hate the idea of war. And as I said before, in a perfect world there would be no need. It is not a perfect world. So here we are. I have children and I would never defend a rapist/pedofile, or anyone who endangered a child in any way. There is no greater crime as far as I am concerned. But the soldiers aren't rapists. They don't get trained on proper ways to brutalize children. And this goes back to the lawful order thing. If you were a soldier and your NCO tried to give you an order to rape that child, it is your duty to not follow that order, at any cost. So no, US soldiers are not your enemy. They are doing jobs nobody else wants to do. You never hear about all the schools they build in Iraq. You only hear how many kids were caught in the crossfire. The MSM tells you what to think. Go beyond that and ask a soldier the real story. You would be surprised how human they can be.

and as for the Rage quote, I like rage, and I like Ron Paul. revolution is not an ugly word. do the math.

reply to post by network dude


Well, I'm glad you are able to see that I am making a distinction, that really is refreshing, and aside from the few soldiers that do the raping, it's our leaders that I have ill will towards. Some simply will not allow themselves to see the distinction, and go to the mandatory "hanoi jane" comparisons. They should frighten anybody who truly cares about the USA, soldier and civilian alike.

As for the invasion of TX, it's happening right now, as well as my state and a couple others, and our military is everywhere BUT here defending our borders. The border patrol is an under equipped, under manned joke and they get thrown in jail for using their weapons. When we the people try and take it upon ourselves to patrol the borders, we are vigiliantes and demonized as racists because the rich sons of bitches that call the shots want to exploit illegal migrants for their own profit, they couldn't care less about the terrorist cartels that have invaded our country, armed better than the border patrol BY FAR. The government is no longer interested in preserving our freedoms, only making ridiclous amounts of money for the few.

Keep listening to Rage, and don't ever let them make you feel like you are a soldier first, and a human being second.

I guess this needs to be reposted again since everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that the military is getting blamed for actions they didnt do!And everyone with there agendas to prove how bad the military is because everyone knows the United States is the great satan!


Everyone wants to blame the military however if you take the time to read the reports by US military personnel that came forward were talking about abuse by contractors. So it turns out these abuses your talking about wasn't done by US Military but appears it was done by 2 companies contracted to conduct interrogations and had to produce results in order to make money go figure.

The commanding officer at the prison, Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, was demoted to the rank of Colonel on May 5, 2005. Col. Karpinski has denied knowledge of the abuses, claiming that the interrogations were authorized by her superiors and performed by subcontractors, and that she was not even allowed entry into the interrogation rooms.

The prisoner Manadel al-Jamadi died in Abu Ghraib prison after being interrogated and tortured by a CIA officer and a private contractor. The torture included physical violence and strappado hanging. His death has been labeled a homicide by the US military [7], but neither of the two men that caused his death have been charged. The private contractor was granted immunity.

Look Military personnel goes to jail looks like he took the fall for the contractor since they were granted immunity huh?

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Lawyers representing allegedly abused Iraqi prisoners filed suit in U.S. federal court Tuesday alleging killing, torture and other abuses against the prisoners or their family members in Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. The lawsuit, filed by Iraqi Torture Victims Group (ITVG) on behalf of five Iraqis, names two U.S. companies, CACI International and the Titan Corporation, which were contracted by the U.S. government to provide interrogation services to coalition forces in Iraq.

Heres your rape case:One civilian stands accused of raping a juvenile Iraqi inmate but the name of the civilian is not revealed in the report.
These facts are not reported by the media because its contrary to there agenda.

[edit on 5/29/09 by dragonridr]

Originally posted by dragonridr
Look Military personnel goes to jail looks like he took the fall for the contractor since they were granted immunity huh?

The same people that granted the contractors immunity, are the people who are sending our troops into danger to secure their business interests in the false pretense of 'freedom'. I believe you that the average soldier would NOT rape a child, I know this in my heart to be true. But the average soldier should also feel it as a duty to stand against these business men who have NEVER seen war, and even actively avoided it, but have no problem sending GOOD MEN to die for money they will not even share with them. It makes me SO angry thinking about it, not because I have something against the military, quite the contrary.

Dont believe anything that is said by an emeny prisoner over one of your own soldiers!!

Id call the accused into the office ask them if they did it, if they said "no" that would be good enough for me.

The people making these claims would do far worse to you!

What does this prove?

I see a provocative thread title..i see RAPE emblazoned across the header and subsequent copy...yet no form of proof.

In what graphic image do we see a sexual organ touching anyone in any way shape or form? This is all BS.

Where was this copy lifted from?

What agency? (news) and how can we corroborate the names and identities of those 'quoted'?

Every other, i swear, every other thread i click on has one persons idea of what proof is....its all subjective yammering in my opinion.

Pleasse be sure to state QUITE clearly in thread title....

'My Personal Opinion Follows: blah blah blah'

...honestly

Originally posted by Damien_uk
Dont believe anything that is said by an emeny prisoner over one of your own soldiers!!

Id call the accused into the office ask them if they did it, if they said "no" that would be good enough for me.

The people making these claims would do far worse to you!

That is the dumbest thing anyone has said on this thread and there have been some dumb posts.

Originally posted by jeddun
What does this prove?

I see a provocative thread title..i see RAPE emblazoned across the header and subsequent copy...yet no form of proof.

In what graphic image do we see a sexual organ touching anyone in any way shape or form? This is all BS.

Where was this copy lifted from?

What agency? (news) and how can we corroborate the names and identities of those 'quoted'?

Every other, i swear, every other thread i click on has one persons idea of what proof is....its all subjective yammering in my opinion.

Pleasse be sure to state QUITE clearly in thread title....

'My Personal Opinion Follows: blah blah blah'

...honestly

your right it proves nothing heres the worst part people are not even bothering to look where this information is comming from stated at a blog the new york times picked it up. The funniest part is no one has done any fact checking the allegations of rape were from the aclu back in 2004 someone reposted it word for word including the part were it said last week. Funny thing is last week was 2004 not 2009 its 5 years later strange huh.

This is simply a case where people are pushing an agenda i have my theories as to why.But since i cant prove it for now let us say these accusations of sexual abuse are not new they are 5 years old and people are trying to make it look like a current topic. This was investigated and there is charges being brought to an independent contractor who is being accused of raping a boy. He was an interpreter hired not by the government but by a contractor to help them interrogate prisoners so much for there background checks.

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by jeddun
What does this prove?

I see a provocative thread title..i see RAPE emblazoned across the header and subsequent copy...yet no form of proof.

In what graphic image do we see a sexual organ touching anyone in any way shape or form? This is all BS.

Where was this copy lifted from?

What agency? (news) and how can we corroborate the names and identities of those 'quoted'?

Every other, i swear, every other thread i click on has one persons idea of what proof is....its all subjective yammering in my opinion.

Pleasse be sure to state QUITE clearly in thread title....

'My Personal Opinion Follows: blah blah blah'

...honestly

your right it proves nothing heres the worst part people are not even bothering to look where this information is comming from stated at a blog the new york times picked it up. The funniest part is no one has done any fact checking the allegations of rape were from the aclu back in 2004 someone reposted it word for word including the part were it said last week. Funny thing is last week was 2004 not 2009 its 5 years later strange huh.

This is simply a case where people are pushing an agenda i have my theories as to why.But since i cant prove it for now let us say these accusations of sexual abuse are not new they are 5 years old and people are trying to make it look like a current topic. This was investigated and there is charges being brought to an independent contractor who is being accused of raping a boy. He was an interpreter hired not by the government but by a contractor to help them interrogate prisoners so much for there background checks.

None of this matters to the OP or the OP's supporters. This is about implied "foriegn occupation" by our armed forces. This five year old story is a platform for the modern "Hanoi Janes" who have filled this thread with their own personal hatred for US actions abroad. I'm not saying it isn't an acceptable topic for discussion, but at least bring it up with the right thread title instead of hiding behind a five year old case that has already been before the courts.

If you want to villify the US and their foriegn policy, go ahead. Don't use the disgusting acts of a few as a soap-box for your anti-US propaganda. It's nauseating. I have even been accused of being some sort of Government operative because I find their tactics beneath contempt. This entire thread is a rant against what some idiots see as US imperialism. It has nothing to do with anything that happened in any prison. Read the posts. This thread is anti-US-foriegn-policy, nothing more, nothing less.

There will be no justice for any innocents discovered in this thread. It was never the purpose to begin with. Read the first two posts and prove me wrong. This thread is about US foreign policy, not what happened in any prison.

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
Don't use the disgusting acts of a few as a soap-box for your anti-US propaganda.

I bet you will ignore this question of mine
But please point out any propoganda that I tried spreading please
Plz keep in mind the definition of propoganda as you look for such a post of mine with futility.

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
This entire thread is a rant against what some idiots see as US imperialism. It has nothing to do with anything that happened in any prison. Read the posts. This thread is anti-US-foriegn-policy, nothing more, nothing less.

This is untrue and you know it
read the first two posts you said
no YOU read it!

I said it many times that this was agenda and that was very much part of the article.

I don't think you even believe what you said
It's just that you have nothing else to say

I await for your reply regarding what posts I made that had a shred of propoganda in it

I doubt I will get a reply for that.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
Don't use the disgusting acts of a few as a soap-box for your anti-US propaganda.

I bet you will ignore this question of mine
But please point out any propoganda that I tried spreading please
Plz keep in mind the definition of propoganda as you look for such a post of mine with futility.

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
This entire thread is a rant against what some idiots see as US imperialism. It has nothing to do with anything that happened in any prison. Read the posts. This thread is anti-US-foriegn-policy, nothing more, nothing less.

This is untrue and you know it
read the first two posts you said
no YOU read it!

I said it many times that this was agenda and that was very much part of the article.

I don't think you even believe what you said
It's just that you have nothing else to say

I await for your reply regarding what posts I made that had a shred of propoganda in it

I doubt I will get a reply for that.

You doubt wrong. Stay tuned.

Second line.

good!
I will respond this is for sure
perhaps tonight though as it's time for me to go play some billiards with some buddies in a few.

But I will respond hopefully tonight.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
good!
I will respond this is for sure
perhaps tonight though as it's time for me to go play some billiards with some buddies in a few.

But I will respond hopefully tonight.

Reply away:

Look at all this on-topic stuff [sarcasm]

Are there still people here on ATS that will say that they support the troops?

Yes there are good troops as well, but they are still under a corrupt agenda nonetheless.

I'm sure the next video of pakistanis hitting a girl with a stick in Swat will create more anger than this will, because it's in the name of good if it's our troops doing it right?

This has been happening for so long and it seems it was used on purporse for interrogation techniques of some sort of just general oppression.

Was iraq an apartheid?

Support the troops right?
Let's keep that slave mentality
Let's keep hating on deserters with moral concsciousness.

Hello Nazi Germany, we're not too far behind.

But you support an army of people with guns who invaded a country yet to be found guilty and then tortured women and children and raped them?

It's patriotic to feel pride in supporting or being a slave of these button pushing mobsters?

Rape was an agenda, it wasn't a few bad apples!

I some a very similar pattern here between catholic priests who raped boys while church elders turned their cheeks and american military torturers who raped boys while the govt. looked the other way.

And people will say I hate the country because they think disagreeing with immoral invasions, supplying Israel with white phosphorus, counterfeiting money in the trillions is anti-american.

I cannot understand people saying support the troops in an undeclared and immoral war, especially one that is making America both bankrupt and more dangerous.

It sure did help end the Vietnam war didnt', GI's refusing to continue fighting an immoral war.

I am SICK AND TIRED of people saying troops are risking their lives so you don't have to. What a load of BS!!!!!!!!

Have a nice day, Yankee-hater.

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
Have a nice day, Yankee-hater.

Is that really all you got? You belong on an episode of South Park, as one of the hillbillies screaming "they took our jobs!" and "if you don't like America, you can giiit out!!" Since you can freely call us all "hanoi janes" and "Yankee-haters", maybe we can call you "brainwashed bob" or maybe "rape-lover"? Since you're making ridiculous assumptions about our characters based on our opinions on US foreign policy, we can do the same, k?

You have a nice day as well, rape-lover.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
Have a nice day, Yankee-hater.

Is that really all you got? You belong on an episode of South Park, as one of the hillbillies screaming "they took our jobs!" and "if you don't like America, you can giiit out!!" Since you can freely call us all "hanoi janes" and "Yankee-haters", maybe we can call you "brainwashed bob" or maybe "rape-lover"? Since you're making ridiculous assumptions about our characters based on our opinions on US foreign policy, we can do the same, k?

You have a nice day as well, rape-lover.

Replying to you is a waste of electrons.

This will be the last time I do it.

Call me whatever you want. I have met many like you. I have no use for you.

These rapes and tortures have occurred occur because the people running the show have given certain military and contractors the green light, carte blanche, to interrogate any way they choose to intimidate other human beings.

When it is leaked to the media, they scramble and go into panic mode and deny it ever happened. Or they use others further down the food chain as scapegoats, fallguys.


This is a fact of war and has happened throughout history. It is NOT right and NEVER acceptable.

In saying that, I would like to add that I am appalled and disgusted by what I read and hear. I hope I never witness anything like this in my lifetime.


just my 2 cents worth
res


[edit on 29-5-2009 by resistancia]

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
I have no use for you.

Why? Is it because you can't rape or torture me?

I'm only kidding about that, I don't know you, or care to really, but saying that is no more ridiculous than the things you are saying. Our foreign policy is nothing more than securing the financial interests of a VERY select few, at the expense of our soldiers lives. The select few don't care about soldiers at all, and unless you are somebody that is benefitting from their corruption and greed, I have a hard time understanding why you fail to see that.

edit to ask: what is your opinion of Jesse Ventura? is HE a "hanoi jane"? I wish he was president personally.

[edit on 29-5-2009 by 27jd]

reply to post by 27jd



Jesse Ventura would be a good President if he had a good running mate to counter some of his extreme views. I would vote for a Ventura/Nugent team.

That would be a good balance.

reply to post by jd140


I'm with you 100% on that one, Jesse Ventura and the Nug'. We gotta figure out a way to convince them to run...