Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by dotcom

Communism, in reality, has only ever been a threat to big business.
And the west is dominated by big business, which makes you think about the fact that the leader of the free world, technically, isnt even free, as he works for the corporations.

I'm sorry I'm old enough to remember communist tanks running over women in Czechoslovakia, and Romania on the news. Dont let modern ant-American Views cload the real history behind communism.

It was a very real threat. Just ask older East Germans. Or anybody who got caught behind the Iron Curtain.

Perfect example of western propaganda.

what do you think was the purpose of a news report like that?
'Look at these communists. Complete disregard for human life, they are truly evil' etc etc

(please note that i am not saying that the USSR were the 'good guys', im merely trying to show how propaganda is used to influence peoples perceptions)

Also the media during that time presented very bias viewpoints.

Originally posted by dotcom
(please note that i am not saying that the USSR were the 'good guys', im merely trying to show how propaganda is used to influence peoples perceptions)

Well if that's the case then all history books are suspect. We all know the vast majority of history is written by the victors. So where do you draw the line?
Reporting the facts is propaganda?


Edit to add.

Weren't you the one spouting how America was responsible for the most deaths?
Blah Blah Blah

Isn't that also propaganda?




[edit on 2-7-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by dotcom

Communism, in reality, has only ever been a threat to big business.

I'm personally acquainted with some Russian, Vietnamese, Montagnard, Laotioan, and Polish Cold War refugees that would beg to differ.

Sorry, I'm not acquainted with any Chinese or Cuban refugees personally, but I'm willing to bet they'd agree with the rest.

Dont forget that defeating the communist regime was not only done through war.
other covert means where used to destroy the regime.

also if you look through history, you will see that most of the worlds top athletes, writers, thinkers where russian. (how did such a dictated, impoverished country produce such world class individuals?)

I also wonder that if the communist government were so dispised by its people (who lived in complete filth n poverty) why didnt they revolt and overthrow the government? we all know the quote 'the people have the power'. (and dont forget, the military are people to)

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by dotcom
(please note that i am not saying that the USSR were the 'good guys', im merely trying to show how propaganda is used to influence peoples perceptions)

Well if that's the case then all history books are suspect. We all know the vast majority of history is written by the victors. So where do you draw the line?
Reporting the facts is propaganda?


Edit to add.

Weren't you the one spouting how America was responsible for the most deaths?
Blah Blah Blah

Isn't that also propaganda?




[edit on 2-7-2009 by SLAYER69]

No one will ever know what is truth and what is a lie. (when it comes to media)
Which is why you shoudnt take what is presented to you as 'fact' being the complete truth, as you dont know whether it is used to influence your perception.
This is why i like to question things, instead of saying 'Oh communists were pure evil' etc as it is not certain that the sources that used to make me come to this conclusion were altered or not.

[edit on 2-7-2009 by dotcom]

Originally posted by dotcom
No one will ever know what is truth and what is a lie. (when it comes to media)
Which is why you shoudnt take what is presented to you as 'fact' being the complete truth, as you dont know whether it is used to influence your perception.

I'll think for myself.

I've been a student of history for a while now. I always consider both sides of an argument. If I were you I would consider taking some of your own advise.



[edit on 3-7-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by dotcom
No one will ever know what is truth and what is a lie. (when it comes to media)
Which is why you shoudnt take what is presented to you as 'fact' being the complete truth, as you dont know whether it is used to influence your perception.

I'll think for myself.

I've been a student of history for a while now. I always consider both sides of an argument. I would consider taking some of your own advise.

Being a student of history does not make you an expert, nor what you say to be correct.

As for thinking for yourself, it can bee seen from your previous comment that your perceptions of history have been influenced by western propaganda.

'I'm sorry I'm old enough to remember communist tanks running over women in Czechoslovakia, and Romania on the news.'

Those 'evil' communists complete disregard for human life!

Originally posted by dotcom
Those 'evil' communists complete disregard for human life!

See that's your problem You "ASSUME" too much.

When did I say they were "evil"

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by dotcom
Those 'evil' communists complete disregard for human life!

See that's your problem You "ASSUME" too much.

When did I say they were "evil"

Im sure there were some people, which after viewing that footage on the news would think about what wonderful people the communists were

Originally posted by dotcom

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by dotcom
Those 'evil' communists complete disregard for human life!

See that's your problem You "ASSUME" too much.

When did I say they were "evil"

Im sure there were some people, which after viewing that footage on the news would think about what wonderful people the communists were

You didnt bother to answer my questions.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by dotcom

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by dotcom
Those 'evil' communists complete disregard for human life!

See that's your problem You "ASSUME" too much.

When did I say they were "evil"

Im sure there were some people, which after viewing that footage on the news would think about what wonderful people the communists were

You didnt bother to answer my questions.

I didnt see any question marks.

Originally posted by dotcom
I didnt see any question marks.

Yeah reading back through the thread I realized that you haven't answered any of my questions just replied with more Anti-American rhetoric.



Who said anything about us being the good guys?

Let me ask you a question?

Who was financing, funding and supplying arms to the other side of these conflicts? So lets collectively add up those numbers as well. Oh yeah how many did the Russians kill in Afghanistan when they were there? How many did they loose?

Everybody likes to bring up Vietnam. Who was supporting the North oh yeah

China and Russia.
Dont they have blood on their hands as well?

Supporting the North Koreans? China?
Who invaded first?

The us is responsible for the most deaths
Isn't that also propaganda?

Originally posted by dotcom

If anyone is a world threat it is the U.S, which has caused more wars and more deaths throughout the world than any other country.

How do YOU define "cause"? I'd have to know that before I could evaluate this statement, as it's not conformatory to the usual and customary definition of "cause".

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Yeah reading back through the thread I realized that you haven't answered any of my questions just replied with more Anti-American rhetoric.

Who said anything about us being the good guys?

They U.S likes to portray themselves as the ‘good guys’ of the world That is a known fact. spreading freedom and democracy and putting an end to terrorism etc etc


Let me ask you a question?

Sure

Who was financing, funding and supplying arms to the other side of these conflicts?

Quote:
How about we look at the bigger picture.
Where do people usually get their financing from? Banks.
The largest banks in the world?
Citigroup
Barclays
HSBC
JP Morgan
AIG

Who in turn own stock in the majority of banks throughout the world.

but hold on... arent these all western banks?

so when you think about it, where are all these 'evil' countries getting all the money to finance their evil wars and regimes?


So lets collectively add up those numbers as well. Oh yeah how many did the Russians kill in Afghanistan when they were there? How many did they loose?

From recollection it was close to a million, But don’t worry the U.S. beat them in Iraq with their 1.033 million death toll.

Everybody likes to bring up Vietnam. Who was supporting the North oh yeah
China and Russia.
Dont they have blood on their hands as well?

Offcoarse they do. I never said they didn’t.


The us is responsible for the most deaths
Isn't that also propaganda?

Propaganda:
Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic attempt to shape perceptions, manipulate cognitions, and direct behavior to achieve a response that furthers the desired intent of the propagandist.

I am merely stating my point of view. After all this is a discussion forum. I am merely discussing.

Originally posted by dotcom

cold war - United States provided foreign military aid and direct involvement in proxy wars against the Soviet Union

Unlike the Soviet Union, who had noting whatsoever to do with arming up proxies, or providing direct involvement.

Korean war - The Korean War was a conflict between the United States and its United Nations allies and the communist powers of the Soviet Union
36,516 dead americans

Since the US "caused" this war (which IS, not WAS - it was never "undeclared"), those deaths would be, by definition, suicides, would they not?

Bite your tongue! Leave the UN out of this! they're a HUMANITARIAN organization, aren't they?

Besides, these are supposed to be US "caused" wars.

vietnam war (aka American war) 58,209 dead americans
including 3 to 4 million Vietnamese from both sides, 1.5 to 2 million Laotians and Cambodians.

Yeah, happiness is a big body count, eh? The US killed ALL those people? You mean no one else was fighting? That's a LOT of Cambodians for the US to have killed on that Ho Chi Minh trail. Why were they there? Heading towards Vietnam to get away from the fighting?

Gulf war - conflict between Iraq and a coalition force of 34 nations led by the United States 299 dead americans

Is that all? Pretty light for a "War", isn't it? How'd the Iraqis escape THAT? Yeah, we should have left Saddam alone then, and let him take those pesky Kuwaitis, who are ALWAYS pestering their neighbors and trying to take them over.

Afghanistan - invasion of Afghanistan 677 dead americans
8,028 dead civilians due to u.s. military actions

What, no figures due to Taliban actions? Are they even really there?

Iraq - invasion of Iraq 4,300 dead americans
total casualties of the iraq war (military + civilians) 1,033,000

The Iraqi figures look pretty inflated to me. Got a source on those? Is there anyone left to run the oil fields?

I'd ask just how the US "caused" these conflicts, but that would lead back to asking your definition of "cause".

Originally posted by dotcom
From recollection it was close to a million, But don’t worry the U.S. beat them in Iraq with their 1.033 million death toll.

I'm willing to get hit for a one liner, Prove it!

Originally posted by dotcom

Originally posted by SLAYER69


Very good I was hoping you would post these.

Let me ask you a question?

Who was financing, funding and supplying arms to the other side of these conflicts? So lets collectively add up those numbers as well. Oh yeah how many did the Russians kill in Afghanistan when they were there? How many did they loose?

Everybody likes to bring up Vietnam. Who was supporting the North oh yeah

China and Russia.
Dont they have blood on their hands as well?

Supporting the North Koreans? China?
Who invaded first?



[edit on 2-7-2009 by SLAYER69]

Its very amusing how Americans believe they are the good guys in every situation. spreading world peace or 'saving' the world from 'evil' regimes.


How about we look at the bigger picture.
Where do people usually get their financing from? Banks.
The largest banks in the world?
Citigroup
Barclays
HSBC
JP Morgan
AIG

Who in turn own stock in the majority of banks throughout the world.

but hold on... arent these all western banks?

so when you think about it, where are all these 'evil' countries getting all the money to finance their evil wars and regimes?

I dunno... export of their assets? Maybe you think the banks just GIVE them money?

If so, where can I sign up for that plan?

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by dotcom

cold war - United States provided foreign military aid and direct involvement in proxy wars against the Soviet Union

Unlike the Soviet Union, who had noting whatsoever to do with arming up proxies, or providing direct involvement.

Korean war - The Korean War was a conflict between the United States and its United Nations allies and the communist powers of the Soviet Union
36,516 dead americans

Since the US "caused" this war (which IS, not WAS - it was never "undeclared"), those deaths would be, by definition, suicides, would they not?

Bite your tongue! Leave the UN out of this! they're a HUMANITARIAN organization, aren't they?

Besides, these are supposed to be US "caused" wars.

vietnam war (aka American war) 58,209 dead americans
including 3 to 4 million Vietnamese from both sides, 1.5 to 2 million Laotians and Cambodians.

Yeah, happiness is a big body count, eh? The US killed ALL those people? You mean no one else was fighting? That's a LOT of Cambodians for the US to have killed on that Ho Chi Minh trail. Why were they there? Heading towards Vietnam to get away from the fighting?

Gulf war - conflict between Iraq and a coalition force of 34 nations led by the United States 299 dead americans

Is that all? Pretty light for a "War", isn't it? How'd the Iraqis escape THAT? Yeah, we should have left Saddam alone then, and let him take those pesky Kuwaitis, who are ALWAYS pestering their neighbors and trying to take them over.

Afghanistan - invasion of Afghanistan 677 dead americans
8,028 dead civilians due to u.s. military actions

What, no figures due to Taliban actions? Are they even really there?

Iraq - invasion of Iraq 4,300 dead americans
total casualties of the iraq war (military + civilians) 1,033,000

The Iraqi figures look pretty inflated to me. Got a source on those? Is there anyone left to run the oil fields?

I'd ask just how the US "caused" these conflicts, but that would lead back to asking your definition of "cause".

Ok, so you think that all these small nations planned to start a war, hoping they can defeat the greatest empire the world has ever known?
Which has the most money and greatest military on the planet?

Originally posted by dotcom
Ok, so you think that all these small nations planned to start a war, hoping they can defeat the greatest empire the world has ever known?
Which has the most money and greatest military on the planet?

It was a game played out by the super powers of the time the US/USSR

Yes they were puppets.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by dotcom

Originally posted by SLAYER69


Very good I was hoping you would post these.

Let me ask you a question?

Who was financing, funding and supplying arms to the other side of these conflicts? So lets collectively add up those numbers as well. Oh yeah how many did the Russians kill in Afghanistan when they were there? How many did they loose?

Everybody likes to bring up Vietnam. Who was supporting the North oh yeah

China and Russia.
Dont they have blood on their hands as well?

Supporting the North Koreans? China?
Who invaded first?



[edit on 2-7-2009 by SLAYER69]

Its very amusing how Americans believe they are the good guys in every situation. spreading world peace or 'saving' the world from 'evil' regimes.


How about we look at the bigger picture.
Where do people usually get their financing from? Banks.
The largest banks in the world?
Citigroup
Barclays
HSBC
JP Morgan
AIG

Who in turn own stock in the majority of banks throughout the world.

but hold on... arent these all western banks?

so when you think about it, where are all these 'evil' countries getting all the money to finance their evil wars and regimes?

I dunno... export of their assets? Maybe you think the banks just GIVE them money?

If so, where can I sign up for that plan?

The bank LOANS it to them.
So hold on. if the western world is at war, WHY ON EARTH are they lending their enemies money?

export of their assets yeah? like what.

Originally posted by dotcom

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by dotcom

Communism, in reality, has only ever been a threat to big business.
And the west is dominated by big business, which makes you think about the fact that the leader of the free world, technically, isnt even free, as he works for the corporations.

I'm sorry I'm old enough to remember communist tanks running over women in Czechoslovakia, and Romania on the news. Dont let modern ant-American Views cload the real history behind communism.

It was a very real threat. Just ask older East Germans. Or anybody who got caught behind the Iron Curtain.

Perfect example of western propaganda.

what do you think was the purpose of a news report like that?
'Look at these communists. Complete disregard for human life, they are truly evil' etc etc

(please note that i am not saying that the USSR were the 'good guys', im merely trying to show how propaganda is used to influence peoples perceptions)

So information is a BAD thing?

Also the media during that time presented very bias viewpoints.

Unlike now, right? (wink wink, nudge nudge)