Why do you believe in *Insert Religion Here*?

BTW, I do not think my beliefs are better than anyone else is. I also disagree with the Christian pastor, but then again I disagree on a lot of what Christianity has become. No one can question it, and no one can learn it for themselves. They must go to church (or so I was told by some Baptists and Catholics) or I could learn the wrong type.

The message of the human being named Jesus son of Joseph has been changed into a dogma that is about the rules of how to get into heaven. Add in divinity and steal from the Egyptian story of death and resurrection, and a new religion is started.

I also finished reading Robert Bauval's book "The Orion Mystery". Excellent book, and it really digs deep into the ancient Egyptian spiritual beliefs.

reply to post by Gazrok

Well...not really dooming. There may be several other ways to be "undamned", but when they are so troublesome and difficult in comparison, what is the point?


I totally respect those who try, though.

reply to post by Republican08

Well, question, what do you mean my "religion", do you have it confused with organized religion as a great many atheists seem to like to, and thusly mean any spiritual beliefs?

1) What was the defining moment that made you believe in your religion? (Other then it was passed down through the family)

There wasn't really a defining moment, it's part of who I am, or should I say who I grew into being when I stopped accepting the beliefs I was told to and started thinking for myself. It may have taken me a while to find closest label to what rang true with me, but I was never anything but.

2) What makes you like this religion better then any of the other religions out there? (Hindu, Islam, Christianity etc.)

We each have our paths to walk and I am in no position to judge anyone else's. I hail anything as "better" or "worse", merely different.

3) In the religion you have chosen, do you HONESTLY believe that what it preaches would allow you to go to 'your' heaven?

See #1. And I know people who are in "Heaven" or "Hell" before they have cashed in the sack of fertilizer they borrowed. It's a state of mind.

I really dont have one particular religion. I believe in a higher being in general but nobody specific. I think as long as your a good person throughout your life and you try your best to bring happiness to others as well as yourself, and give help when needed, then you'll go to a nice place after death.

Its all about being a good person to me.

reply to post by Jess_Undefined


Yes, I follow those rules in my daily life, do good to others, blah blah blah you've heard it all before.

It's just in 'organized religion', it's not really about doing good things, it's in there, but for Christians, its a guideline to your way of life, but the main purpose is that you believe jesus is real and the only way to heaven.

After Oprah denied the fact that jesus wasn't the only way to heaven that raised all sorts of hell!

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


I liked to use that also, heaven is a state of mind just like hell. Heaven is when you've found a twenty dollar bill on the ground. Hell is when you realized you lost twenty dollars somewhere.

Right exactly and thats something I dont understand. Christianity seems more like an aim to scare people than to make people feel safe in their belief. If this so called Jesus really does exist in the spiritual realm, I can be almost for sure he isnt going to damn you for having your doubts, because if he created us, he should know its in our nature to doubt things often.

I personally feel like we create our own god and our heaven in a sense. Its just a thought.

If your a good person, which im really sure you are, I dont think you have anything to worry about at all. If any God does exist, he's has to be an understanding one.

Awesome post and I enjoying reading and answering stuff like this. Star and flag definetly for you.

reply to post by Jess_Undefined


Haha, don't let a screen fool you i've done my share of bad things, and still do, mainly to girls, not Chris Brown style, but just manipulating, it's my thing, I get it from my father although RIP for him, sad loss, one of the saddest.

Christianity made me look twice, ( I used to conduct my own bible studies apart from the church and gained a larger following at age 14! ) when a deacon from my church showed up at my house with a bible and a letter, addressing that my sister was no longer allowed inside the church walls, and a list of grievences of the sorrow people felt that she was inevitably banned to hell.

I thought wow!!! What a thing inevitably damned to hell, what did she do, My sister is the most self righteous person i've ever met, well turns out, she had done the unthinkable, she went to, A Baptist Church!!! Rips head off!

So she's damned to hell for that, I had also heard of the Baptis church branding people for hell for going to my church, then I reevaluated everything, it seemed so manipulated, then I looked at my studies I was teaching peopl again at 14!!

It's been six years, and have found christians, who either are fundamentalist, or believe in that god, just because he says good things, but doubt the living in a fish and what not.


I insist if you enjoy this, there are a few good debates on youtube, albeit primarily between Islam and Atheist, but good nonetheless, there hours long, but the hours pass quickly from intrigue!

Edit to add: You can flag it but not star it, if your hell bent on starring it though, feel free to star any other comment or thread!

[edit on 30-5-2009 by Republican08]

reply to post by Jess_Undefined


www.youtube.com...

You can start at 1 and move up, I've watched 2 and three but not one. Don't know why, i'm off like that though.

Just saying if your interested in extreme thoughts, these are them. How they conjure up these rebuttles so quickly i'll never know, probably why I went with the football team instead of the debate team.....:shk:

Thank you! I will definetly watch those videos. And im sorry to hear about your dad, its the toughest thing in the world losing someone you care about so much.

reply to post by Republican08


The thing is, all the things you can name about Christians being "bad", I can show you where it specifically says to do otherwise. Organized religion is mostly a bunch of acceptance, rather than understanding. And even that is something that isn't supposed to be done.

That is what amazes me the most sometimes.

Here's a hot topic example. Christians who quote leviticus on gay marriage etc. You have probably heard someone say - do you kill the man who plants his crops wrong as well? That is actually something that Jesus does to the Pharisees. He does it to prove that the Pharisees really don't care about the "laws of god", they are just using the ones they want to enforce for their own purposes and biases.

www.biblegateway.com...

He says if they are follow the laws as they say, they would be killing the child etc. He isn't saying they should kill the child, it's just hyperbole to prove the above point. " 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

It's full of stuff like that. I don't think Christians would like Jesus very much at all if he was roaming around today.

reply to post by badmedia


And if their is a jesus, and he was roaming around today, I think he'd be pretty upset too, same with MLK.

They've had good hearts but misinterpreted and opinionated them all to hell and back by observers and 2,000 years of translations.

I'm not just picking on christianity, im not meaning to pick on any, just looking for opinions thats all.

reply to post by Republican08


I read the book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" when it first came out and wondered what all the fuss was about. I have since re-read it, and it is a fascinating look at a simple mystery that grew more complex as the authors researched it.

The biggest idea that seemed to tear at the Christians belief was the prospect Jesus married Mary Magdalene and sired children with her. It was common for a rabbi (which is what Jesus was) to marry and have children. Since Jesus was also directly descended from David through his father Joseph, he would of been expected to have an heir to the bloodline. I never thought there was anything wrong with that finding, and was shocked when I found out the Catholic Church claims Jesus had no brothers and sisters.

The Church deified Mary and made the birth a virgin one to counter the extremely popular Isis at the time. They also started the resurrection story because other beliefs had their gods Mithras and Osiris doing the same. It seems the things they forgot about was the original teachings of peace and knowledge. Dogma and a fear of hell has taken the place, to keep the Church wealthy in tithing. Money and power is what organized religion is about, not the growth of ones spirituality.

reply to post by kidflash2008


I remember hearing about Osiris on Religioulous, (dont worry all my information didn't come from that movie!) Was curious, I think most if not all of the Bible has been turned over dozens of times by the church.

Just like the pope did with the 7 Deadly sins, which were either 8-9 but to make it look like god worked through sevens he had one removed...... sounds reasonable no?

Originally posted by Republican08
reply to post by badmedia

 

And if their is a jesus, and he was roaming around today, I think he'd be pretty upset too, same with MLK.

They've had good hearts but misinterpreted and opinionated them all to hell and back by observers and 2,000 years of translations.

I'm not just picking on christianity, im not meaning to pick on any, just looking for opinions thats all.

Actually, one need only read Matthew 7 to know what Jesus will say to the majority of religious people.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The entire chapter is good and relevant, this is the most direct part of it. iniquity means sin. He is talking about those who commit and do sins in his name, thinking they are doing "the lords work". The chapter starts out talking about hypocrites and such.

It's these kinds of things that cause me to separate Jesus from Christianity.

Originally posted by Republican08
I remember hearing about Osiris on Religioulous, (dont worry all my information didn't come from that movie!) Was curious, I think most if not all of the Bible has been turned over dozens of times by the church.

Just like the pope did with the 7 Deadly sins, which were either 8-9 but to make it look like god worked through sevens he had one removed...... sounds reasonable no?

When I hear stories like Osiris, I see that the truth is universal and never changes. Only the messengers and how those truths are expressed changes based on the time, places and cultures.

Once understanding is lost, it becomes time for a refreshment. As times and cultures changes, meaning is lost, becomes corrupted like you mention and so forth. Through the biases of men.

Because it was that understanding that drew me to Jesus and the bible in the first place. I seen understandings I knew and gained in the words and actions of Jesus. But it's not the only place I see them.

When I had my experience, I was told not to make myself just another authority for people to accept. I was given the understanding and shown the path. But was shown the world certainly doesn't need another 'the truth, as told by...". Which is the general basis of religions.

reply to post by badmedia


Surprisingly i'm a 'very' *if you would you place it there* anti-religion person. I find it hard to like the Jesus character, I mean he's the leader persay of christianities roots.

Yet I still find myself taking a keen liking to him, i'm not altering my beliefs away from atheism, I just find the things jesus is preaching to be very thoughtful and wholesome, sagacious if you will.

So if Jesus was real, (I need proof like bones with a post it note on the forehead datin back 2000 years saying this is jesus, I ask just as much proof as UFO skeptics) I really do like the guy.

Originally posted by Republican08
reply to post by badmedia

 

Surprisingly i'm a 'very' *if you would you place it there* anti-religion person. I find it hard to like the Jesus character, I mean he's the leader persay of christianities roots.

Yet I still find myself taking a keen liking to him, i'm not altering my beliefs away from atheism, I just find the things jesus is preaching to be very thoughtful and wholesome, sagacious if you will.

So if Jesus was real, (I need proof like bones with a post it note on the forehead datin back 2000 years saying this is jesus, I ask just as much proof as UFO skeptics) I really do like the guy.

I was an anti-religious person before I had my experience as well. No where near religion. I still pretty well dislike organized religion.

I think it's perfectly natural and fine to not accept. I refused to just accept things as well. And obviously my experiences and such are not proof for anyone else. Nor should they be. If the point is a personal relationship with God, then why should anyone settle for the word of another? And if all these people have a personal relationship with god, why don't they know anything outside the bible? Apparently a personal relationship with god and the holy spirit means a personalized reading of the bible? Not in my experience.

But I can't deny the fact that Jesus pretty much says and does exactly what I was shown and given understanding of. It's not "Jesus" that I recognize, it's the understanding of the father I recognize.

Seems you are doing exactly what I use to do. Allowing other people to define Jesus and God for you. It may seem as though that is not the case, as you are not religious, but actually it is. Because your choices are based on what Christians do any say, rather than you own understanding of things.

Don't even need the bible or religion at all to be honest. I certainly didn't. But I would have to say that if you gain true understanding, then you will see it repeated in the bible. Along with examples of what not to do as well.

I don't think it even matters if Jesus is real or not. You could flat out prove he wasn't real, and I would be like - So? You could prove he was real, and I'd be like cool. In the very least, I don't find it very hard to believe that a man in history had such strong principles. There have certainly been others with strong principles and understanding.

It's the actions and understandings given that matter. If Jesus is not real, then someone along the line knew the truth in order to create the story, and that is fine with me. Because in the end, that is all it is to us, a story. None of us were there, we don't know. We only have the story to go by.

But yeah, pretty much everything bad christians do, I can show you were Jesus says not to do such things. I have a friend who often says - I like Jesus, it's his fans I can't stand. And I tell him - you are more christian than they are.

I talk about Jesus and God, but I am certainly not "one of them". I'm not a Christian.



[edit on 31-5-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


Sound words.

I do know alot of the bible, and the heresay I post on here, is for observational purposes not a format which I formulate my opinions on.

True if they proved jesus was not real, someone still would of had that truth and able to write it. There is just so much in it that through time, if that was the original writing, that is physically impossible and much more will be proven wrong in time.

If anyone is out there Lurking (You know who you are) Come by and leave a comment, any words are appreciated.

reply to post by Republican08


There are "keys" and such in the bible. The bible IMO works alot like algebra, as does all understanding. When you learn algebra, you learn that A+B=C, and A, B and C can be many different values. But the understanding behind it is the math.

Being a programmer, I work in this way all day long. Like take this website for example. Each unique page on here all shares the exact same code. They all follow the same basic logic/understanding. But look at all the unique pages. The equation and understanding never changes, but each page is unique because all those variables are filled with different and unique values. It's really no different than A+B=C.

So when Jesus is the "truth, the way, and the light", those are keys that can be applied anywhere you see Jesus. For example, "you can only come to the father by me" What he is saying is - you can only come to the father by the truth, the way and the light. Which I can confirm, I was looking for the truth, and a way for all people to live peacefully when I came to the father and understanding.

Course, the funny thing is I didn't read the bible and learn that. Exactly the opposite. I learned and then seen it in the bible. Which is great for me, but has absolutely 0 value for you. You could never know if I was telling the truth or not. For all you know, I could just be repeating the bible and so forth like all the others. Impossible to know. Which only goes to prove you can't replace understanding with acceptance. So it would be foolish of you to accept because someone said it so.

As Einstein said, any fool can know, the point is to understand. It doesn't do any good to run around screaming E=MC2 if you have no idea what it means. Same goes for religion. Doesn't do anyone any good to run around saying Jesus is truth and so forth if they have no understanding on what it means.

You won't prove Jesus wrong on understanding. But what can be proven wrong is the misconceptions people have about what he said. If you actually come to understand Jesus and are on the path, then you will find the same exact things are present today that he dealt with.

Pharisees = Big time church leaders. Popes, cardinals, TV evanglists etc.
Moneychangers = Bankers.
Rabbis = Priests/father/preacher/reverend/etc
Romans = any government you belong under. You will even have religious leaders/pharisees who will try and use that as a way of persecuting you if you threaten their power.

Think in terms of variables, different names for the same function. Or as Jesus would say - look at their fruits. It's those same that I mention who work so hard to keep you from looking at fruits, or spend a hefty amount of resources towards "public relations" and looking good in the eyes of men, and who keep people focused on symbolism and such as a way of blinding people from their other hand.