Quick note: We're going to be off-island for two days, so if I'm not responsive right away, know that I'll be on it when we get back.
thank you!
Requesting your input -- how to mark a time capsule, and what to put in it, page 1
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Topic started on 27-5-2009 @ 10:28 PM by argentus
Honestly, I'm at a loss where to put this thread: Global Meltdown? Fragile Earth? Survival?
Hang with me a bit, I'll get to it.
I have an idea -- not an original one -- but one that might well be applicable to today's [apparent] rapidly changing world.
I can already hear SDog laughing.
Okay. I was reading Cliff High's interview with Project Camelot. If you don't know him, he's the primary creator of the Half Past Human reports -- AKA -- the ALTA reports which are also referenced at George Ure's Urban Survival site. Really intriguing work, all of it, and it has a certain resonance that makes sense to me.
Read the interview at Project Camelot. It's fascinating.
Well, m'Bride and I have had this idea for a while......... we're making a time capsule. NOT a time machine, but a container of the works of the times. We've put together several items that we think are representative of the current age, as well as the Caymanian culture in which we live.
There is a cave adjacent to our property; It's on a limestone bluff that protrudes up 150 feet above this island. The Queen apparently owns the face of the bluff, however HER cave is only accessible from our chunka land. It's a small cave, however a relatively unknown one.
My Grandparents were born here, and theirs and so on.......... and they didn't know about this cave. We revere caves here, as they're our natural harbor against hurricanes. I found it one day while looking for some fruit trees my Grandmother claimed were there against the bluff. The cave is basically a 5-foot circle. It goes back into the rock 32 feet, turns to the east and ends seven feet later.
We have salvaged a fiberglass container that used to be a telephone connection. It's a cylinder about 18-inches long and with a diameter of 10-inches. It comes apart in the middle, with a rubber washer in the middle and a stainless steel ring around the join.
I have build a stairway to the cave, which is 42 feet above grade and 87 feet above high tide. We intend to fill the container with the works of....... us..... all of us, and form a concrete bulkhead and pack water, portland cement and aggregate up there and concrete the container at the end of the cave.
I have this persistant, but not frightening, feeling of radical changes in the near future. I want to leave information behind. Sort of like stocking up-- it doesn't hurt a thing, and there's a chance of something good coming of it.
Here, finally, are two questions: What would you put inside the container? My Bride thought of putting some open-pollinated seeds packed in a matrix of oxy-sorb and I insist upon an old and well-used 1976 version of the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. It occurred to both of us that we should leave a primer of the English language............ a rosetta stone of sorts.
Second question: How in the world should we mark the cave so it screams out "LOOK HERE!" Seven feet above the cave is a bluff with sharp rock. I could put anything I wanted there, like a mirror epoxied into place.
I think of a time capsule as something that is opened at a later date for the historic value of examining the culture of the past, and so we are including a several writings of the Caymanian culture. Would it be silly to load a buncha stuff on a flash drive or DVD? I suspect so, but what the hell, they take up very little room.
I also want to leave some mark of humanity and our aspirations and knowledge........... you know........ just in case.
I welcome your input. You all know where I'm coming from here, I suspect. This project will be done, and completed within the month. My primary concern now is what to put in the cylinder, and how to mark it. You all have such insight. Share some of it with me, okay?
Peace and hope
Argentus
p.s. if anyone wants photos of the interior of the cave, that's an easy thing to do. It's not much to look at, but it is a very fortified location, especially the bit after the bend in the cave
Hang with me a bit, I'll get to it.
I have an idea -- not an original one -- but one that might well be applicable to today's [apparent] rapidly changing world.
I can already hear SDog laughing.
Okay. I was reading Cliff High's interview with Project Camelot. If you don't know him, he's the primary creator of the Half Past Human reports -- AKA -- the ALTA reports which are also referenced at George Ure's Urban Survival site. Really intriguing work, all of it, and it has a certain resonance that makes sense to me.
Read the interview at Project Camelot. It's fascinating.
Well, m'Bride and I have had this idea for a while......... we're making a time capsule. NOT a time machine, but a container of the works of the times. We've put together several items that we think are representative of the current age, as well as the Caymanian culture in which we live.
There is a cave adjacent to our property; It's on a limestone bluff that protrudes up 150 feet above this island. The Queen apparently owns the face of the bluff, however HER cave is only accessible from our chunka land. It's a small cave, however a relatively unknown one.
My Grandparents were born here, and theirs and so on.......... and they didn't know about this cave. We revere caves here, as they're our natural harbor against hurricanes. I found it one day while looking for some fruit trees my Grandmother claimed were there against the bluff. The cave is basically a 5-foot circle. It goes back into the rock 32 feet, turns to the east and ends seven feet later.
We have salvaged a fiberglass container that used to be a telephone connection. It's a cylinder about 18-inches long and with a diameter of 10-inches. It comes apart in the middle, with a rubber washer in the middle and a stainless steel ring around the join.
I have build a stairway to the cave, which is 42 feet above grade and 87 feet above high tide. We intend to fill the container with the works of....... us..... all of us, and form a concrete bulkhead and pack water, portland cement and aggregate up there and concrete the container at the end of the cave.
I have this persistant, but not frightening, feeling of radical changes in the near future. I want to leave information behind. Sort of like stocking up-- it doesn't hurt a thing, and there's a chance of something good coming of it.
Here, finally, are two questions: What would you put inside the container? My Bride thought of putting some open-pollinated seeds packed in a matrix of oxy-sorb and I insist upon an old and well-used 1976 version of the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. It occurred to both of us that we should leave a primer of the English language............ a rosetta stone of sorts.
Second question: How in the world should we mark the cave so it screams out "LOOK HERE!" Seven feet above the cave is a bluff with sharp rock. I could put anything I wanted there, like a mirror epoxied into place.
I think of a time capsule as something that is opened at a later date for the historic value of examining the culture of the past, and so we are including a several writings of the Caymanian culture. Would it be silly to load a buncha stuff on a flash drive or DVD? I suspect so, but what the hell, they take up very little room.
I also want to leave some mark of humanity and our aspirations and knowledge........... you know........ just in case.
I welcome your input. You all know where I'm coming from here, I suspect. This project will be done, and completed within the month. My primary concern now is what to put in the cylinder, and how to mark it. You all have such insight. Share some of it with me, okay?
Peace and hope
Argentus
p.s. if anyone wants photos of the interior of the cave, that's an easy thing to do. It's not much to look at, but it is a very fortified location, especially the bit after the bend in the cave
reply posted on 27-5-2009 @ 11:02 PM by argentus
reply to post by xynephadyn
Thanks for your reply xynephadyn
That's pretty much the crux of it. If TSHTF big time........ well, it'd be hard enough just to find this island, let alone a vault in a cave. I thought about making a rune or symbol beside the mouth of the cave. A number would be a good marker for someone who understood our numbering system, but what if it's thousands of years from now? Just tatters of meaningless writing?
How long would a mirror survive? A hundred years? less? I dunno.
We never had kids, but plan to let it be known that we're doing this. Yep. Yet another reason for the locals to think I'm not well.
Thanks for your reply xynephadyn
That's pretty much the crux of it. If TSHTF big time........ well, it'd be hard enough just to find this island, let alone a vault in a cave. I thought about making a rune or symbol beside the mouth of the cave. A number would be a good marker for someone who understood our numbering system, but what if it's thousands of years from now? Just tatters of meaningless writing?
How long would a mirror survive? A hundred years? less? I dunno.
We never had kids, but plan to let it be known that we're doing this. Yep. Yet another reason for the locals to think I'm not well.
reply posted on 27-5-2009 @ 11:11 PM by RussianScientists
reply to post by argentus
Argentus you and your bride will do well in the future, you will make it through the good and the bad times to come, no matter how bad they may get.
Argentus why do you want to make your time capsule so small? Why not block off the front of the cave, and put a door in the cave opening. Put a metal door in and keep the whole cave a secret and your own personal time capsule.
Why block off the back of the cave, when you can block off the entire cave and keep it camouflaged so that no one else locates it. Put a 5 foot tall door in the entrance way about a foot inside of the opening, so that you can use other similar rocks to put up against the wall in which you will put in a metal door. Camouflage the entrance with similar colored rocks so that no one can see or stumble upon the cave unless they are right in front of it.
That entire cave is your time capsule, so seal up the entire cave. Take your junk out there and use it as a storage cave. Your junk could some day save your life, or it can turn out to be a lot of time capsule memorabelia. That cave itself could turn out to bring back all kinds of great memories in the future if you give it a chance. Don't tell others where it is though. Everyone wants to have a secret cave.
Gradually take stuff out to the cave over a period of years, because you know you have years in which to do it in, and during that period of time you and your wife will have a great time fixing up the cave secretly. It will be your little secret, and you will have fun sharing such a secret.
Peace my friend.
Argentus you and your bride will do well in the future, you will make it through the good and the bad times to come, no matter how bad they may get.
Argentus why do you want to make your time capsule so small? Why not block off the front of the cave, and put a door in the cave opening. Put a metal door in and keep the whole cave a secret and your own personal time capsule.
Why block off the back of the cave, when you can block off the entire cave and keep it camouflaged so that no one else locates it. Put a 5 foot tall door in the entrance way about a foot inside of the opening, so that you can use other similar rocks to put up against the wall in which you will put in a metal door. Camouflage the entrance with similar colored rocks so that no one can see or stumble upon the cave unless they are right in front of it.
That entire cave is your time capsule, so seal up the entire cave. Take your junk out there and use it as a storage cave. Your junk could some day save your life, or it can turn out to be a lot of time capsule memorabelia. That cave itself could turn out to bring back all kinds of great memories in the future if you give it a chance. Don't tell others where it is though. Everyone wants to have a secret cave.
Gradually take stuff out to the cave over a period of years, because you know you have years in which to do it in, and during that period of time you and your wife will have a great time fixing up the cave secretly. It will be your little secret, and you will have fun sharing such a secret.
Peace my friend.
reply posted on 29-5-2009 @ 05:16 PM by argentus
reply to post by kyred
Good one.......... although I think those items are representitive to some degree of the times, I don't think they're the most representative
of these times. I guess I'm thinking that we should stow things that might be beneficial to an emerging culture. Of course, as I mentioned, the
chances of an emerging culture finding this island, let alone the cave are slim. So far, the best way I have of marking the cave is a 4' X 4'
mirror epoxied above it. I wish I could create a giant magnetic anomaly.
Good one.......... although I think those items are representitive to some degree of the times, I don't think they're the most representative
of these times. I guess I'm thinking that we should stow things that might be beneficial to an emerging culture. Of course, as I mentioned, the
chances of an emerging culture finding this island, let alone the cave are slim. So far, the best way I have of marking the cave is a 4' X 4'
mirror epoxied above it. I wish I could create a giant magnetic anomaly.reply posted on 29-5-2009 @ 06:04 PM by argentus
reply to post by RussianScientists
Thanks for the insightful thoughts.
The main reason we don't want to block it all off, is that we use the cave in times of hurricanes. Right now there is a ladder made of a dish "tower" that we use to climb up into the cave. I'm going to build a proper stairway to it someday -- I just want to build it out of rock and concrete, so it will take dozens of trips with aggregate and such to do it.
Right now, at the face of the cave, there is C-channel screwed in on each side of the cave. When we've been in there for hurricanes, we drop 2 X 6" cut-to-fit lumber in the channels to make a "door". It works well.
There is already a lot of stuff we leave up in the cave, and I suppose we could at least block off the six feet after the turn without problem. I'm concerned about leaving electronically stored media, as there's no guarantee than anyone who finds it will be able to generate the equipment to retrieve it. I can store photos, and written word, and I feel confident that if stored in a fiberglass container with oxy-sorb packets and then concreted, that it will persevere.
But then.............. how to deal with the English language? So, we've included a dictionary, and a couple of homemade primers. TREE = [picture of tree], etc. etc.
Imagine being able to leave clues for a future generation about our times. Do I dare to imagine that this cave, these clues could be a "find" for someone in the future? Nope. But on the other hand, I recognize that many of our "ancient" findings have been in caves. In remote places. Perhaps it's the way it's always been.
Thanks for the insightful thoughts.
The main reason we don't want to block it all off, is that we use the cave in times of hurricanes. Right now there is a ladder made of a dish "tower" that we use to climb up into the cave. I'm going to build a proper stairway to it someday -- I just want to build it out of rock and concrete, so it will take dozens of trips with aggregate and such to do it.
Right now, at the face of the cave, there is C-channel screwed in on each side of the cave. When we've been in there for hurricanes, we drop 2 X 6" cut-to-fit lumber in the channels to make a "door". It works well.
There is already a lot of stuff we leave up in the cave, and I suppose we could at least block off the six feet after the turn without problem. I'm concerned about leaving electronically stored media, as there's no guarantee than anyone who finds it will be able to generate the equipment to retrieve it. I can store photos, and written word, and I feel confident that if stored in a fiberglass container with oxy-sorb packets and then concreted, that it will persevere.
But then.............. how to deal with the English language? So, we've included a dictionary, and a couple of homemade primers. TREE = [picture of tree], etc. etc.
Imagine being able to leave clues for a future generation about our times. Do I dare to imagine that this cave, these clues could be a "find" for someone in the future? Nope. But on the other hand, I recognize that many of our "ancient" findings have been in caves. In remote places. Perhaps it's the way it's always been.
reply posted on 29-5-2009 @ 06:10 PM by argentus
reply to post by Scarcer
TRUTH, absolute truth, is a difficult animal to capture, right? Let us look at 9-11 truth as an example. Who knows for certain what happened? I have my ideas.
If I did write such things, I'd want to gather views from people that were a microcosm of the Earth. Well, that's what I've tried to do here. I'm serious folks....... tell me what you want in this preservation area. I don't think it'll serve the folks of the future to finally make a translation of writings and decipher the phrase "George Bush was a weenie crook." Nope. There will have to be opposing sides, and a wide view of the whole era. So............ I'm seeking out compilations.... writings that seem to encompass our knowledge. I've tossed in "A Fearful Symmetry" by A. Zee.
TRUTH, absolute truth, is a difficult animal to capture, right? Let us look at 9-11 truth as an example. Who knows for certain what happened? I have my ideas.
If I did write such things, I'd want to gather views from people that were a microcosm of the Earth. Well, that's what I've tried to do here. I'm serious folks....... tell me what you want in this preservation area. I don't think it'll serve the folks of the future to finally make a translation of writings and decipher the phrase "George Bush was a weenie crook." Nope. There will have to be opposing sides, and a wide view of the whole era. So............ I'm seeking out compilations.... writings that seem to encompass our knowledge. I've tossed in "A Fearful Symmetry" by A. Zee.
reply posted on 29-5-2009 @ 06:13 PM by argentus
reply to post by OnTheFelt
EXcellent suggestions. One has to be careful with movies and such -- I think it's important to identify them as fictitious entertainment, and not representative of human life at this era.
But yes, classic works, and as another poster said, art and music and the basic core of vitality that makes us more than basic animals.
I have started with a core of physics, chemistry and math. I welcome your suggestions as to what other elements should be representative of the creative impulses of humanity.
EXcellent suggestions. One has to be careful with movies and such -- I think it's important to identify them as fictitious entertainment, and not representative of human life at this era.
But yes, classic works, and as another poster said, art and music and the basic core of vitality that makes us more than basic animals.
I have started with a core of physics, chemistry and math. I welcome your suggestions as to what other elements should be representative of the creative impulses of humanity.
reply posted on 29-5-2009 @ 06:17 PM by argentus
reply to post by sc2099
Great idea. I have no idea how well photos cast into West Systems epoxy will survive the ages, but have decided to capture a few.
Aside from that, I can save a bazillion gigs of images on flash drives and such. We have an old laptop which my Bride has agreed to donate to the cause. Perhaps the workings of it can survive.
I love history too. I wish it weren't such an intangible thing. Wouldn't it be wonderous to really KNOW what happened? But then........ I look at our times now........ who can really say what is happening? So history is the perspective of a culture.
I think you can contribute to this idea very well, and thanks for your input so far!
Great idea. I have no idea how well photos cast into West Systems epoxy will survive the ages, but have decided to capture a few.
Aside from that, I can save a bazillion gigs of images on flash drives and such. We have an old laptop which my Bride has agreed to donate to the cause. Perhaps the workings of it can survive.
I love history too. I wish it weren't such an intangible thing. Wouldn't it be wonderous to really KNOW what happened? But then........ I look at our times now........ who can really say what is happening? So history is the perspective of a culture.
I think you can contribute to this idea very well, and thanks for your input so far!
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