Does anyone still care about the CONSTITUTION????

I find myself starting this thread and asking a question of my fellow Americans, I never thought I'd ask.

Does anyone still care about the CONSTITUTION ???

What brings me to this question you ask?

I'm concerned.
I've seen a number of posts here on ATS that have indicated that the Constitution is either irrelevant, too antiquated or at the very least over rated.

I've had posters write things like, "it's only a piece of paper. What- do you worship it or something?"

And, "I'd rather give up some of my freedoms to make myself and my family more secure."

There are many other examples but those are the ones that immediately pop into my head.

Now let me state for the record, I'm a big fan of the Constitution but I'm not one of those people who thinks we should have a revolution or anything. In my opinion, I'm a reasonable person who believes in the ideals of the Constitution of the United States of America and I don't want to see it go away any time soon to say the least.

I think our rights were greatly infringed during the bush administration and I would like to see those rights, pressed, cleaned, folded and returned just as they were before they were stolen

I'm sure we all can cite many examples of how our rights have been systematically dismantled over the last 8 years or so but a substantial number of people here have indicated that they don't really care. Let me be clear, I don't think it's a majority that think this but a significant minority. I would like everyone to take the time to explain to me how I am wrong. Yes that's right, I want you to tell me I'm wrong and why I'm wrong.

I also must wonder if this is a new attitude being spread by a new generation of apathetic citizens or is this something a bit more sinister? Have we been manipulated to feel this way????

Please feel free to explain why you think I'm right or wrong and also feel free to include examples.

reply to post by jfj123


I am not a US citizen as such but I am absolutely shocked when I tell people from my own country (UK) that there is a constitution and I get laughed at for being "stupid".

I have never witnessed sheep following flies before but now I believe anything is possible when surveying surroundings and attitudes.

I hope the US does not allow demons to overtake the country but as the UK has allowed it, (mini america as it gets called), it will most certainly happen and constitutionalists will become terrorists.

Time to buckle up for the pitfall if you allow yourself to be influenced by nonsense.

Unfortunately the constitution is nonsense in the governments eyes and the majority of people. At least in my country it is and is continuously crapped upon.

Just remember that bliss does not have to be in ignorance when the times get tough and as long as some remember it can become all. I do believe that the reason many americans are taught the constitution is because of what the gov wants you to do ie civil war to break the states apart. Time will tell but right now I find myself strongly feeling that is the case.

I admire Americans for the patriotism to say the least and hope it stands firm when it needs too.



[edit on 27-5-2009 by XXXN3O]

I'm a fan of the Constitution, and Thomas Jefferson. The US Constitution is NOT a living document. People say that it is antiquated, but I disagree, I think our forfathers had clarity of vision, and damn near saw into the future when creating it.

You know, it's funny. Not a day goes by that I don't talk about the constitution. Not a day goes by that I don't point out something from the document, or something written ABOUT the document by our founding fathers.

And, I'd say as much as 90% of the time I am met with blank stares, or accusations of being unpatriotic.

Now constitutionalists are considered potential terrorists.

I find it relevant to quote Thomas Paine here:
"Constitution serving not only as a law of controul to the Government. It was the political Bible of the state. Scarcely a family was without it. Every member of the Government had a copy; and nothing was more common when any debate arose on the principal of a bill, or on the extent of any species of authority, than for the members to take the printed Constitution out of their pocket and read the chapter with which such matter in debate was connected"-Rights of Man


These days need to return.

Most people have no clue how the constitution is supposed to work. They think it is a document of limited rights, rather than a document of limited government. They believe the constitution only gives them the specific rights listed, and that government can do anything else. They do not understand that the government is the one that is only supposed to do/protect the specific things listed.

It's not even taught in schools properly. All about them limited rights.

Ask them if they know what the 9th and 10th amendments are for. They won't have the slightest clue.

This is not something that the founding fathers didn't forsee. When they were writing the constitution there were some who wanted to list rights, and others who didn't. Both had very valid points and concerns in why.

The side that wanted to list the rights wanted to make sure those basic and most important rights were never trampled on. Valid concern. If they weren't listed today we'd probably not have them.

Those who didn't want to list the rights were afraid that if you listed some rights that the people one day may be reduced to only those listed rights. Obviously in todays world - valid concern.

So the compromise was the 9th and 10th amendments. The 9th amendment says you can't add to the constitution to take away a previous right. And the 10th amendment says anything not specifically listed is passed on down the line to states and individual(freedom of choice). This was intended to put a lock on government and make it limited.

This of course was bypassed with the general welfare clause. Yet the general welfare is also mentioned in the preamble. Part of the constitution itself is to promote the general welfare. Article 1, Section 8 is the part of the constitution that gives congress the power/authority to uphold the amendments. As again, it must be specifically listed. Thus, Article 1, Section 8 says to "provide". The amendments themselves are the part of the constitution that promotes the general welfare.

And it works too, if people understood how to use it properly. The general welfare clause ends up giving special rights to certain people. However, if it was done properly then it would be added as an amendment. In which case as it is then a right, it is automatically applied to everyone equally.

For example healthcare. Add an amendment that says healthcare is a right etc. And guess what? Automatically by default given to everyone equally. Probably not something I'd be in favor of, but that is how it is done properly. Not so easy to get an amendment added, which means it's pretty much gotta be something everyone wants. 2/3's majority etc.

So they simply do not know what they have, or even how to follow it properly. As such, they do not deserve it.

reply to post by XXXN3O


Thank you very much for your post.

I agree that many in our government see our Constitution as an annoyance to be swatted as needed.

Our last president even stated, "It's just a god d@mn piece of paper".

The moron didn't even know it wasn't written on paper ! I'm glad he and darth cheney are out of office ! Big sigh of relief for many in the US.

Instead of a long winded reply I will be blunt.
Less is more.

Answer to OP.

NO!
Not unless it interrupts American Idol.
We are reduced to this in the USA.
Shame.

[edit on 27/5/2009 by reticledc]

Originally posted by jfj123
reply to post by XXXN3O

 

Thank you very much for your post.

I agree that many in our government see our Constitution as an annoyance to be swatted as needed.

Our last president even stated, "It's just a god d@mn piece of paper".

The moron didn't even know it wasn't written on paper ! I'm glad he and darth cheney are out of office ! Big sigh of relief for many in the US.

The comments you speak of are the reason I think that many Americans are encouraged to be patriotic (1980's - 1990's) then the government craps on what they teach you.

It is a wind up sadly I fear.

Hope that makes sense and I speak from experience in my own country where you are laughed at for speaking freely.

Not an American so my opinion means moot really.Although i think your constitution is a great document,i do not think anything should be set in stone.Countries,societies,people,culture evolve all the time and the laws,ideologies and political structures should adapt with it.I would probably think that most Americans still cherish their constitution and still think it embodies their beliefs though.

reply to post by Solomons


I would like to think they do, but when most of us blindly accept the Patriot Act? No. They apparently have no idea what the Constitution means, nor do they cherish it as we all should.

Ad for times changing, I can agree with that, hence certain ammendments, but not the #ing Bill of Rights. That needs to be held true, and unfortunately we've had a president that strongly disagreed with that.

do you recall a document called the Communist Manifesto.... ? humm ...
ok - now read the UN Charter ... ok ... sound like twin brothers dont they.
and the ultimate betrayal of the constitution was when congress ratified the UN Charter... do you know why...? hummm .... well all ratified treaties take precedent over the constitution -- so, well -- that has been one serious issue -- who's right - the people who are following the constitution and it clearly says this Communist Manifesto takes presidence over it...
at least thats my understanding of this delima in law...

At their cores, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights define inherent (God-given, for those so inclined to believe) rights ofall men and women. They also (attempt to) prevent or limit the ability of the Federal government to usurp those rights. The Constitution and the BoR are only as effective as the citizens choose to make them.

What we reap today is what was sown long ago in public schools. Up until roughly the mid-20th century in our schools, the Revolutionary War, the Constitution, and the Bill if Rights were required subjects. For decades now, if they're mentioned at all, it's only as footnotes. The educational system has failed monumentally to the detriment of democracy and civil liberties.

When a sitting U.S. President can refer to the Constitution as "Just a g-dd-mn piece of paper" without provoking outrage form the populace, I'm afraid we're too far up the creek. What the ignoramuses who say they don't worry about losing a little freedom for safety refuse to consider is that oft-referenced slippery slope. They'll be next.

Originally posted by Cohen the Barbarian
At their cores, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights define inherent (God-given, for those so inclined to believe) rights ofall men and women. They also (attempt to) prevent or limit the ability of the Federal government to usurp those rights. The Constitution and the BoR are only as effective as the citizens choose to make them.

What we reap today is what was sown long ago in public schools. Up until roughly the mid-20th century in our schools, the Revolutionary War, the Constitution, and the Bill if Rights were required subjects. For decades now, if they're mentioned at all, it's only as footnotes. The educational system has failed monumentally to the detriment of democracy and civil liberties.

When a sitting U.S. President can refer to the Constitution as "Just a g-dd-mn piece of paper" without provoking outrage form the populace, I'm afraid we're too far up the creek. What the ignoramuses who say they don't worry about losing a little freedom for safety refuse to consider is that oft-referenced slippery slope. They'll be next.

I agree. Our schools don't seem care about teaching what's important anymore.
When I was a kid, we recited the Pledge of Allegiance in school every morning. We talked about the Constitution and even made our own as part of a class project including making look old and yellowed.

I was really hoping to hear that I was wrong and everyone still does care about it looks like we're a minority my friend

Thanks for your reply.