It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Russia fears North Korea conflict could turn nuclear

page: 2
7
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 27 2009 @ 10:11 AM
link   

Originally posted by maloy
By the way does anyone know what actions the US navy is undertaking around the Korean penninsula currently? My guess is that the Arleigh Burke class destroyers can provide some sort of active missile defense shield via AEGIS technology for South Korea. If anything, this would be the only meaningful move by the US at this point.


According to Navy.mil, we currently have four carrier strike groups in the WESTPAC. The Nimitz, John C. Stennis and Reagan are all in the Pacific, while the Washington is in the East China Sea. We've got plenty of air and naval firepower ready in case something breaks out.




posted on May, 27 2009 @ 10:13 AM
link   
reply to post by maloy
 


one of the more sensible posts I have read on this post!I think you are right lil kim knows exactly what would happen if he were to go ahead and fire one of these warheads off at the south(he ain't that crazy IMO).This is just some more tantrums from him in the hope that the west will take some notice and try and appease them.If he were to do the unthinkable the consequences for the North Koreans from the rest of the world would be too devastating to comprehend.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 10:20 AM
link   
Thanks for the site Tentickles. I'll follow it also.

As for our President, I am not sure how I feel about so little coming from him now as we possibly face a war.

I want to believe he is on top of the situation and plans are being formulated. After all, such plans cannot be disclosed to the American people for security reasons.

Mr. Obama is not running the show by himself. I imagine he is tightly leashed and even has his bowl movements regulated by TPTB.

Even with the security issue it would be reassuring to the American people if our President would at least tell us more lies and let us know Washington is on the problem.

In reality, I am sure Washington is abuzz with special meetings and the war room is full of our top officials. But our esteemed leader should at least poke his nose out the front door and make a speech.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 10:26 AM
link   

Originally posted by maloy
By the way does anyone know what actions the US navy is undertaking around the Korean penninsula currently? My guess is that the Arleigh Burke class destroyers can provide some sort of active missile defense shield via AEGIS technology for South Korea. If anything, this would be the only meaningful move by the US at this point.


The problem with that is this...

I question if even our might anti-missile system's can track, lock and destroy a rocket launched from N.K. with such a short fight (into S.K.).

Here is the reality of the situation:

If little kimmy chooses to do....
send his million man army walking and have all 40K+ artillery pieces launch all at once, there is basically nothing S.K./US/anyone can do in time to save Soul.

The 30K US men or so would be marched right over (think about it 1 million VS 30K).

That said, there would also be nothing N.K. could do to prevent itself from being flattened completly-ie no where for the army to go back to.

As far as Russia, they are going to do nothing but say they are displeased-absolutely nothing.

Frankly, the same is true of China.

They may not be happy with little kimmy setting off nukes, but they are more happy with his sticking it to the WEST



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 10:42 AM
link   
reply to post by mrmonsoon
 




The 30K US men or so would be marched right over (think about it 1 million VS 30K).


The first stage of a war with North Korea would be confined to the South, because the objective is to stop the attack. It makes little strategic or tactical sense to invade the North before we stop the attack on this side.



That said, there would also be nothing N.K. could do to prevent itself from being flattened completly-ie no where for the army to go back to.


This being true, it will take time for this to become a reality. In the opening stages of the war, all air and aval assets will be most likely committed to providng support for the ground forces in stemming the tide of the invasion. They may launch some cruise missiles into Pyongyang, but defense of Seoul will be the priority of the day.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 10:43 AM
link   
reply to post by YouAreDreaming
 


While I too fear that this will escalate (I don't think this is just N.Korea posturing to the world or their own people) it only makes sense that all nations should be having security discussions in light of this new test.

Everything needs to be reviewed.
Any country not reviewing their security measures and responses in case of a nuclear event doesn't deserve to be in a position of leadership.

I don't think a nuclear attack by N.Korea would immediately result in another nuclear detonation by any nation anywhere. If N.Korea did ever nuke the south, every nation would spend a few days in shock, bolstering their own defence, having meetings and making public announcements.
Every nation knows that to attack N.Korea with another Nuke wouldn't do any good. It would raise tensions even further and risk an all-out nuclear war.

The deterrent doesn't exist, because to use it in response to a nuclear event would only escalate the situation even further and make the situation much, much worse for every Human on Earth.

The world would, however, combine to attack N.Korea in a conventional sense, removing any capability for them to attack any nation ever again.

I fear I might see a nuclear weapon used in my lifetime, but I don't think it'll be N.Korea.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 10:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
The problem with that is this...

I question if even our might anti-missile system's can track, lock and destroy a rocket launched from N.K. with such a short fight (into S.K.).


The only reason I mentioned the US destroyers with ABM capability, is to provide a sense of security for South Korea - a piece of mind if you will - even if it provides no realistic defense. All this anyway is sabre rattling match to see who will scare who. The leaders won't be scared because they know there won't really be war, but the population might want some symbolic assurance that they are safe.

After all, the entire ABM shield idea is nothing but a piece of mind - a false sense of security.



Originally posted by mrmonsoon
If little kimmy chooses to do....
send his million man army walking and have all 40K+ artillery pieces launch all at once, there is basically nothing S.K./US/anyone can do in time to save Soul.


Perhaps you are right, but a preliminary strike against NK help matters either, because it can't possibly dissable the NK military, and will only serve to innitiate an attack by NK on South Korea in retaliation.

My guess however is that it is not Kim's intention to invade South Korea. His intention is to hold on to power in NK, get some leverage for negotiations, and prevent an attack by the US. If he really wanted to invade South Korea, both China and Russia would no doubt know about it, and take action to prevent it - because the consequences of an all out war for them would not be good.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 10:52 AM
link   
I disagree with you Maloy...

Up until nukes start flying, Russia and China will do nothing.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am "SURE" some phone calls along the lines of ," these moves are not good for stability in the region..."

I do believe... like Hitler, Like Iran no one wants to take the initiative to do anything about these issues.... until they no longer have a choice.

[edit on 5/27/2009 by mrmonsoon]



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 10:57 AM
link   
reply to post by sweatmonicaIdo
 


You misunderstand completely.

I was referring to S.K's ability to stop little kimmy's army if they just started marching, firing artillery pieces.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 10:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by xxpigxx
Soon, friends, soon.


The same has been said time and again regarding NK and Iran.

I believe what we are witnessing from NK over the last several days is nothing more than a test of the new US president and administration.

They need to know how far they can push this one, how much they can get away with, and eventually how much they again can get in return for pulling back from its threats and nuclear programs.

Same ole story, new president.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 10:58 AM
link   
reply to post by dooper
 


So, how about this CHANGE?
Ain't it great?


It absolutely astounds me - the people who have so much hate for the new administration and so little love for mankind that they are writhing in anticipation for a nuclear war - just so they can say *Ha Ha Ha*...

peace



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 11:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by silo13
It absolutely astounds me - the people who have so much hate for the new administration and so little love for mankind that they are writhing in anticipation for a nuclear war - just so they can say *Ha Ha Ha*...

peace


Hopefully, should it come to nuclear war, those people will be vaporized faster than they can say *Ha Ha Ha*.

Until then, I look forward to them blaming the administration for their wives and husbands refusing to have sex with them.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 11:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
I disagree with you Maloy...

Up until nukes start flying, Russia and China will do nothing.


Russia and China have more stake in the situation and stability on the Korean penninsula than even the US. Unlike the West however they try to avoid sensationalism and war rumors because all it does is undermines stability and negotiations.

They don't need to do anything to prevent war - all they need to do is specify to NK that they will cut off all support for Kim's regime. Isolation by China and Russia will starve the NK regime faster than any sanctions by the West. Kim is not a complete idiot, and he knows that he cannot afford to lose what little sympathy he has from his Eastern neighbors.

As for taking military action against NK - at this point it is out of question for everyone, including the US, Russia and China. The best course of action now is to ignore NK and avoid making military threats of preemptive strikes. Instead quietly prepare defenses to give people some sense of security, observe NK, and try to restart the 6 party talks. Sensationalism and sabre rattling is the worst thing to do right now.



Originally posted by mrmonsoon
I do believe... like Hitler, Like Iran no one wants to take the initiative to do anything about these issues.... until they no longer have a choice.


This isn't 1939 - the world is far more intertwined and complex. Neither NK nor Iran can be said to possess the same goals or ambitions as the Third Reich.

Take a step back and look at what transpired in the last few days. NK tested a nuke - nothing new as it happened before. NK tested some missiles - again nothing previously unseen or unexpected. NK cancelled some old temporary peace agreement - symbolically meaningful but hardly changes the stance of North Korea towards South Korea, as both have technically been in a state of war since the 50's. There has been nothing surprising or unexpected about any of these events. War is no more realistic than it was in recent years.

Hopefully all this is is Kim gasping for last breaths of a dying regime. The only alternative is that Kim lost his mind completely, but so far all of his moves have been calculated in terms of expected response by the US and NK's neighbors. There is little to indicate that he is planning to attack first.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 11:26 AM
link   

Originally posted by dooper
They don't understand that with stiffies, negotiation is merely a delaying tactic until they get strong enough to kill again.

Korea and Iran.


Not the same grouping. Iran doesn't even have test nukes yet, let alone a small stock pile building.

It is estimated that NK has half a dozen nukes and enough fuel rods to build another one. Iran has yet to test a nuclear weapon or become capable to build one. I think we still have time to try and talk to Iran to see if some sort of agreement can be made.

Iran hasn't done nearly as much military posturing as NK. When a country tests a nuclear weapon, tests small and long range missiles, and threatens a country it is still technically at war with, with an attack, the time for talks has passed.

I'd say Iran has a couple more steps to go before our options run thin. Iran still has to build them weapon and test it, miniaturize them to fit on weapon systems, and build weapon systems to deliver the nuclear payload. The only thing NK HASN'T done is the miniaturization process. Everything else they have already tested.

After miniaturization, what does NK have left to do in order to pose a nuclear threat to anyone within short range missile range? Nothing. We need to destroy NK as it stands before they can achieve miniaturization. This would allow the country to fire nuclear missiles, not to mention it would allow them to sell this research to every country looking to build nuclear weapons, which is a great deal of countries.


All I am trying to say is North Korea and Iran are not the same ball game. They are two different situations entirely.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 11:39 AM
link   

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
The first stage of a war with North Korea would be confined to the South, because the objective is to stop the attack. It makes little strategic or tactical sense to invade the North before we stop the attack on this side.


Actually it would make a great deal of sense. Say NK has an army of 1 million. They send in 800,000 into South Korea.

Do you:
A. Try to use all your might to save South Korea from invasion
or
B. Invade North Korea, bomb it to hell, and take out the 200,000 left, along with most the military generals, and leadership of the country.

Kill the head, and the rest will follow. If they wanted to invade NK, I personally think the best time to do so would be when they are in the process of invading South Korea. You crush NK while its trying to invade SK and the army will fall into disarray.

Sure many South Korean lives would be lost, and it certainly wouldn't be pretty, but from an AMERICAN strategic viewpoint, that would enable us to get the upper hand it successfully destroying the entire regime in North Korea, while risking little of our men.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 11:39 AM
link   
To those criticizing Obama - what do you propose the US do, and what would be the consequences of those actions? If US acts overly aggressively or stages a preemptive strike, an attack by NK on South Korea is practically guaranteed, while disabling the entire NK military is out of the question. Or do you want Obama to stage a show for the media, put on a military hat, and march around on a carrier proclaiming that the US is up at arms and is ready to deal a death blow to the evil enemies of freedom and democracy? No matter what he does he will be ridiculed by his opponents, and mocked by war hawks.

Seems to me that for some Americans this is more about internal politics and party affiliations/grudges than about the safety of South Korea, which is an Americans ally. But what do I know, I am not in America.



Sometimes the best thing is to stand by and wait, especially if your enemy expects you to rush in and attack.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 11:56 AM
link   
It's my guess that NK doesn't have any nukes in reserve. I'm pretty sure that as soon as they manage to build one they let it off - this gives the illusion that they have some sitting around ready to go. Granted, they learn more each time so the production process is probably speeding up. As for them launching one.......isn't going to happen. They know it would be suicide and they would only do it as a last resort; let's say if SK and the US decided to invade and were about to take Pyongyang - then they might well decide to do it. And anyway, they don't have a reliable delivery system - their rockets are junk and I doubt they've managed to find a way to integrate a nuclear warhead. Again, given enough time, they will master this process. But right now it's all a bluff and/or a cry for attention.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 12:14 PM
link   
Make the arrangements and announce that Japan due to a lend/lease program is being presented with one-thousand nuclear weapons, including nuclear submarines, nuclear cruise missiles, and nuclear ballistic missiles to counter this new threat.

As I stated on another thread, China will start shaking like a dog ****ing a peach pit as they still have a residual fear of the Japanese. This will be a very strong motivator to get China to stop this stupidity by the North Koreans. They can cap fatface and get a new government in there.

Simultaneously, lend/lease (just like we did prior to WWII) Israel three B2 Bombers, several B-52's, and several Air Tankers to Israel to counter the Iranian nuclear threat.

We're playing checkers, and everyone else is playing chess.

That "CHANGE" I was talking about is the change to electing a man perceived, and this is the operative word, "PERCEIVED" as a weak, inexperienced, gutless man who can't put together cognitive thoughts that aren't on a teleprompter, written by others.

He's a salesman.

And Iran and North Korea aren't buying.

Hell, neither am I.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 12:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by dooper
That "CHANGE" I was talking about is the change to electing a man perceived, and this is the operative word, "PERCEIVED" as a weak, inexperienced, gutless man who can't put together cognitive thoughts that aren't on a teleprompter, written by others.


Perceptions like these are only meant for the consumption of the regular public who watch Obama on their evening news. World leaders and military strategists know better than to buy into these emotions, and they know what to expect from the US regardless of who is in power. The US foreign policy and Pentagon's stance has actually changed very little between different presidents and political parties.

On the other hand shows of strength by the President such as those Bush put up (war talk prior to invasion of Iraq/Afghanistan, threats to Iran, "Axis of Evil", "Mission Accomplished") appear as nothing more than silly stunts by those who make decisions in other countries.

A gutless man is not one that tries to avoid conlict and confrontation, but one that attempts to innitiate one in order to be perceived as strong and fearsome.



Originally posted by dooper
He's a salesman.

And Iran and North Korea aren't buying.


And what was Bush? An cowboy actor in a Western movie? Whatever he was selling somehow wasn't bought by the world either.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 12:50 PM
link   
reply to post by maloy
 


Oh yeah. Chamberlain was a reasonable man too. His hesitation permitted Hitler to make his deal with Russia to start WWII, as long as Russia got her cut out of Poland.

Honorable men, there.

Chamberlain's hesitation cost 52,000,000 lives.

Don't try to sell me on Obama/Chamberlain.

Gutlessness is a matter of perception as much as a reality.

A man with a solid reputation for early rising may on occasion sleep in.



new topics

top topics



 
7
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join