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Did Jesus' Teachings Abolish the Old Testament Laws?

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posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 05:21 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


Well, the basic commandments I think are the ones that are gods laws. They have understanding behind them that even people who are not religious understand and get. Don't kill and so forth.

Those laws can all be seen as laws which infringe on the free will of another, and when you do that, then you are doing bad things to that person. When you do that, then you are not loving others as yourself and so forth.

And then that was misunderstood a bit, and people started adding other things thinking, or claiming(can't really say what the motive was) that these were also god's laws. In doing so, they were teaching the doctrine of men as the law of god.

So when Jesus fulfills gods laws and brings understanding of them, he also brings understanding of what is not gods law, and so is showing what are just the doctrines of men. I agree with you that it is now based on understanding, but in your understanding do you not see the same basic laws?

God as judge is different because he would be one without sins and mistakes. A fair and honest judge etc. We being those with sin are incapable to making the same honest and fair judgments all the time. I'm certainly not perfect, and I don't know anyone else who is either.

Of course, if the being is god, then he certainly doesn't need any of us to kill people for him. If he does, then he isn't really god. That was the part I was really meaning to highlight with the hebrews 10 part "vengence is mine sayeth the lord".

I am personally of the opinion that the universe adjusts automatically to give what is needed. Reap what you sow. While their is a correct path in following Jesus across the universe, there are also the consequences of not following that path. And that is provided automatically based on our choices. Make bad choices, reap bad effects. Make good choices(wisdom) and reap good effects.




posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 




jesus was jewish. so he ofcourse lived by the law.

but even the sermon on the mount was more than the law. it was the principles that guided the law. jesus was teaching not the "what" but the "why" of the law.

btw locoman. im still waiting on that scripture that says christians are still bound by mosaic law...



This is annoying to me watching you post all of these things objective to God's perfect spiritual Law of the Ten Commandments. If by mosaic laws you are talking about the "executing" those who break the laws, I don't believe we are under that system. Jesus took the role of many bylaws at His death and resurrection. The execution bylaws told by God to moses in order to punish those who transgressed the Commandments was done away with when the promise of the Kingdom was fulfilled in Jesus. Those who sin from this day forth and knowingly transgress will be punishable by death... a second death in a lake of fire. Mosaic "bylaws" were all symbolic in nature and are now fuliflled in Jesus Christ. The animal sacrifical system were part of these bylaws. Since Jesus was the "ultimate" sacrifice and took the role of permanent High Priest, we no longer need animal blood sacrifices. One thing people get confused about is the clean and unclean meats. These dietary laws were not symbolic in any way. They were put forth for the literal "well-being" of man. To refrain from eating literal "garbage disposals" or "bottom-feeders" we are keeping a cleansed body. We are taking care of our bodily temple. Meats were only part of the clean and unclean laws. After birth, women were unclean for 40 days... which is about the time it takes for a woman to heal after birth. The main issue on this thread have to do with God's spiritual Law, the Ten Commandments.... the perfect law. Now I have my New Testament "evidence" proving the Law never being done away with, just "expanded" or "filled" which is the meaning of the word "fulfilled" in Jesus' words "I have not come to destroy the Law but to FULFILL it."

Matthew 5
17] "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets (Old Covenant). I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (expand).
18] "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled (complete).
19] "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Here Jesus mentions that He never came to eliminate the Law, but to expand or fill in the Law. He put a greater emphasis on the Law. It should be followed not only physically, but spiritually. The problem with the Law in the Old Covenant is that the Holy Spirit was not allowed upon men (with the exception of the patriarchs and prophets). You can't follow a spiritual law while lacking the Holy Spirit, which was given to man on Pentecost 31 AD.


Matthew 7
12] "Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

Jesus is explaining how to act with your fellow man. Do unto others as you would want them do to you. He is explaining that this lesson is embedded in the Old Testament. Law is the 5 books of Moses. Prophets is the books of Joshua to Malachi. This is what He means by Law and Prophets.


Matthew 22
37] Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
38] "This is the first and great commandment.
39] "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
40] "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

I have explained before that the great commandment "love God" and the golden rule "love your neighbor" are a summary of the 10 Commandments. Commandments 1-4 show love to God. Commandments 5-10 follow the love for a neighbor. On these two principles hang the entire Old Testament (Law and Prophets).


Luke 16
16] "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
17] "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail."

Jesus is explaining that the Kingdom of God had been preached since the beginning of the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant ended with John the Baptist. Everyone pressing into it means the kingdom of God will still be preached, it will press on. Also, interestingly the Law will not fail before heaven and earth pass away.


Romans 3
19] Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20] Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

This is Paul explaining that flesh cannot follow the law because of the sinful nature of man. Notice his words "for by the law..." meaning because of the law, man knows sin but the law itself is not sin. Only by spirit can the law be followed to it's entirety.


Romans 4
15] because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

Obviously if there is no law known, the transgression of that law cannot be accounted. The law does bring about wrath because of the fact there are transgressors of the law. Does this mean the law is bad? No. It mean's man's carnal mind is sinful. So if there is no law, there is no breaking of that law. The thing is there is a law, a spiritual law of God. A Law that is as active as the law of gravity.


Romans 5
13] (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Sin was in this world before man was created. What does this mean? It means God's spiritual Law existed before man as well. How is this? Because Satan is the beginning of sin and sin is the "transgression of the Law". This is the biblical definition. Satan had to have broken God's spiritual Law (the Ten Commandments) in order to sin. Sin is not imputed when there is no law means that a person has no feeling of blame or fault when there is no knowledge of the law. This means if one has no knowledge of the law, they kill or steal without realizing it's wrong to do.


Romans 6
14] For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

What is grace?
a.the unmerited love and favor of God toward mankind
b.divine influence acting in a person to make the person pure, morally strong, etc.
c.the condition of a person brought to God's favor through this influence
d.a special virtue, gift, or help given to a person by God

love, moral strength? Didn't Jesus say something about this? Love God and your neighbor, which are the two great commandments or summarized 10 Commandments. Practicing grace means you automatically follow God's spiritual laws without being told to do so. Why did Adam have only one rule in the garden? It's not that the 10 Commandments weren't there. It's that while man was not under the influence of sin, they were automatically following God's laws.


Romans 8
3] For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh.

Once again, we get the "weak through the flesh" picture of the law. This is because God's Law is spiritual, not carnal. We must follow the law in spirit and truth, not in a burdensom form of the flesh. We should all follow the Law through the grace of God. Jesus came as a sacrifice in order to give mankind the Holy Spirit.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 06:25 AM
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reply to post by Locoman8
 

You might want to edit that first sentence out.
I have a lot of experience debating this stuff and I can tell you almost no one sees it like that.
So, it is ridiculous to take a stance like that, especially when it comes off as offensive.
Nice to be zealous and all that but you know, throw the first stone and so on. Really.


[edit on 1-6-2009 by jmdewey60]



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 06:56 AM
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Here is more to feed on. Also remember these laws include the Sabbath, which never changed.


"Sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4)

"The end of the matter, all having been heard: fear God, and keep His commandments; for this is the whole man" (Ecclesiastes 12:13)

"Many nations shall come and say, "Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths." For out of Zion the law shall go forth, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem." (Micah 4:2)

"Oh, how I love your law! It is my meditation all the day" (Psalm 119:97)
"You, through Your commandments, make me wiser than my enemies" (v. 98)
"Your word is a lamp to my feet, and a light to my path" (v. 105)

"And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." (Revelation 12:17)

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12)

"For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin." (Romans 7:14)

"The LORD is well pleased for His righteousness' sake; He will exalt the law and make it honorable." (Isaiah 42:21)

"If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:16–18)

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in heaven" (Matthew 7:21)

"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love." (John 15:10)

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another" (John 13:34–35)

"And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another. This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it" (2 John vv. 5–6)

"Love is the fulfillment of the law" (Romans 13:10)

"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome" (1 John 5:3)

These are only a small portion of scriptures that make it clear the Commandments of God have never been done away with, but magnified. The writings of Paul need to be examined closely because his writings seem to be the only "evidence" of the "eliminaiton" of the law which is not true. Just remember Peter's words:

2 Peter 3:15] and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
16] as also in all his epistles speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

I will end with that for now.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 06:58 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I only told her it was annoying to me. She's been just as offensive, if not more with me but we both know it's not to be rude, but to accent our point across. It's respectable objection.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by Locoman8
 


No.

Tell me Locoman, do you think that males should still be circumcised, as that is part of Old Testament Law and is equal to keeping the sabbath?



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 08:18 AM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


Circumcision was a sacrifice. The Old Testament shows that the sacrificing of the foreskin is a sign for God's people. Paul explains about spiritual circumcision, which is to sacrifice your whole self in the name of Jesus to follow God's ways spiritually. Circumcision is a SACRIFICE. Jesus was OUR sacrifice and now our circumcision is spiritual. The physical circumcision is not equal to the spiritual law of God's Sabbath. That's a false assumption.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by Locoman8
Circumcision was a sacrifice.


actually no. it was an agreement

gen 17:[10] This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
[11] And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
[14] And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

the isrealites were told to circumcise their hearts, this was not something added after christ.

deut 10:[16] Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

circumcision was a covenant between god and the israelites. those bound to the law had to be circumcised

what im saying is that you are picking and choosing what parts of the law you want to follow. circumcision was part of that law.

logically then if christians are bound to the law, then they should be circumcised.

this issue came up to the elder body in jerusalem and they realized that christians are not bound by law and thereby didnt need to be circumcised.

acts 15:[1] And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
[2] When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

[5] But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
[6] And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
[7] And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

paul basically says that that doesnt add up. if we need to follow the law (and be circumcised as a result) why are there gentiles converting?

[8] And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

not only were they converting, but it was apparent that they also had holy spirit. if god disapproved of them because they did not follow the law, then why were they recieving holy spirit (a sure sign that god approved of them?)

[10] Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11] But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

its not by the law we are saved, it by jesus, so why make it harder tying them to the law?

then paul breaks out scripture to show that this was actually prophesied.

[15] And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
[16] After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
[17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
[18] Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

the verdict and final letter to the congregation.

[23] And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
[24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
[25] It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
[26] Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[27] We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
[28] For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
[29] That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.


black and white. christians are not bound by mosaic law.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 05:05 AM
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Originally posted by Locoman8
I only told her it was annoying to me. She's been just as offensive, if not more with me but we both know it's not to be rude, but to accent our point across. It's respectable objection.


oh i dont mind. im always rude (something i should work on)



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by Locoman8
"Sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4)


exactly. the law was given to us to remind us that we are imperfect. if jesus blood wipes away "sin", then what does it do to the law?




"The end of the matter, all having been heard: fear God, and keep His commandments; for this is the whole man" (Ecclesiastes 12:13)


one of my fav scripture btw.

commandments are different than law. adam was commanded not to eat the fruit, but it was not "the law". christians are commanded to preach, but it is not "the law" the following scriptures you quoted basically say the same thing. Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Matthew 19:16–18; John 15:10; 2 John vv. 5–6; 1 John 5:3;


Micah 4:2; Psalm 119:97; Isaiah 42:21;


these hebrews were still under the law.


"Your word is a lamp to my feet, and a light to my path" (psalm 119:105)


exactly. the law provides guidance. im not saying that its rubbish. but christians are not bound to it. actually they are bound to the "law of christ"


"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another" (John 13:34–35)


this along with "love your god with your whole heart soul and mind is the "law of christ"


"Love is the fulfillment of the law" (Romans 13:10)


which is why the law was replaced by the law of christ.


The writings of Paul need to be examined closely because his writings seem to be the only "evidence" of the "eliminaiton" of the law which is not true.


actually there is the book of acts which was likely written by luke.

again, im pretty sure you are misunderstanding me.

im NOT saying that its ok for christians to kill or steal or fornicate.

what im saying is that this...

exodus 24:[12] And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

was replaced with this...

matt 2:[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 09:11 AM
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Locoman

I have to agree with Miriam you are picking and choosing parts of the Mosaic law, you can't say oh just the part for sacrificing is done because Jesus came and took THAT part away. You can't piece meal it up and divide the law.

Do you eat pork?
How about celebrating "the Festival of unfermented cakes"?
What about celebrating "the Festival of Booths"?

If you are married, I highly doubt you are following Leviticus Chapter 15 as to the laws standards for uncleanness.

Any man that tried to follow that today would not have a very happy wife.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


I have to agree with Miriam you are picking and choosing parts of the Mosaic law
I have to imagine that whoever set up this religion did it with the purpose of destroying it. If you want to wreck the Sabbath, you invent a theology that says, "Keep the Sabbath, and while you are at it, here are a few others to keep too".
What it does is make the position indefensible by opening up your security perimeter to cover an exposed area and end up with the whole city falling.
I would rather set one Law to defend and let the rest fend for themselves, and that is what was written with God's hand on the stone tablets.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


Let me ask you a question. Do you think we are still bound under the Ten Commandments? I'm confused with your stance. You are talking to me in opposition of the bylaws and ordinances. The only of these I believe we are bound by are the laws of clean and unclean meats, the 7 holy day feasts (with the christian meaning), and the spiritual laws of the Ten Commandments.... all of which were followed by Jesus, the apostles, and the first century church. That's the main reason for my stance on these laws. Most bylaws and ordinances had to do with animal sacrifices and burnt offerings and Jesus took the role of the ultimate sacrifice and took place of the Levitical system of the temple.

I can't emphasise more that the laws and commandments for a christian should be written on the mind and the hearts of the faithful. In doing this, we follow the commandments without thinking about it. It's an automatic thing. I explained earlier how the Ten Commandments have always been God's law, even before mankind because of the fact that sin is the transgression of the law and Satan created sin which means he transgressed God's law. It's a law as active as the law of gravity. If followed, it just works. You say you still believe in not killing or stealing, etc. which leads me to believe you still trust in the Commandments. If this is so, why are you in opposition of the Sabbath commandment? I'm sure you agree with the other 9, but why nitpick on this commandment? They are all just as equally important. Jesus said "Whoever breaks the least of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven...." Now you are telling me that I'm just picking and choosing what laws to follow yet you do the same for the commandments? Let's go through the list:

1) Love God... Have no others before Him.
2) Do not worship false idols (graven images, etc).
3) Do not take the LORD's name in vain (no swearing).
4) KEEP THE SABBATH HOLY (longest of all commandments).
5) Honor your mother and father.
6) You shall not murder.
7) You shall not commit adultry.
8) You shall not steal.
9) You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor (lie).
10) You shall not covet.

Every one of these commandments seem plausible to you except for the Sabbath commandment? Or you believe the sabbath is whatever day you want to make it? God specifically called the 7th day, the day of rest. Not the first or the third and so on. Does that mean its wrong to worship on these days? No. But it does mean the Sabbath is the time specified in the bible to honor God and do absolutely no work outside of God's work. The lessons Jesus taught us is how to properly honor the Sabbath because the sauducees and pharisees put too much of a burden through the doctrine of men.

Let's not argue over who's nitpicking their laws.

Oh and by the way we are to be spiritually circumcised, not physically. The law still stands in that manner.

Good day to you.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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im not saying we arent under law.

im saying we arent under THE law.


1) Love God... Have no others before Him.
2) Do not worship false idols (graven images, etc).
3) Do not take the LORD's name in vain (no swearing).


"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment."


5) Honor your mother and father.
6) You shall not murder.
7) You shall not commit adultry.
8) You shall not steal.
9) You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor (lie).
10) You shall not covet.


"And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

----------------------------------

where does the sabbath fall in these 2 commandments? well technically if god commanded us to observe the sabbath, then it would be the first.

but this is the point you are missing. the sabbath is a commandment, not a principle. following either of the 2 principles will not make it apparent that you need a sabbath. it doesnt go without saying.

the sabbath, the sacrifices, the holy days, the dietary restrictions were of specific purpose and they were exclusive to the israelites. they were part of that "covenant" between GOD and his chosen people.

those people refused the messiah. the covenant was broken. the contract became void. all the seats of the marriage feast that were reserved for the israelites were then offered to the gentiles.

this is why paul asked, if gentiles are not under law and god obviously approves of them by giving them holy spirit, then obviously the law is not in effect.

----------------------------------

this is why jesus then instituted a "new covenant" with his apostles on passover night.

the law was nailed to the "cross" when jesus died and a new law was instituted, the law of christ.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Locoman

I have to agree with Miriam you are picking and choosing parts of the Mosaic law, you can't say oh just the part for sacrificing is done because Jesus came and took THAT part away. You can't piece meal it up and divide the law.

Do you eat pork?
How about celebrating "the Festival of unfermented cakes"?
What about celebrating "the Festival of Booths"?

If you are married, I highly doubt you are following Leviticus Chapter 15 as to the laws standards for uncleanness.

Any man that tried to follow that today would not have a very happy wife.




I do not eat pork, shellfish, catfish, swordfish, horse, dog, cat, rabbit, squirrel, gator, turtle, etc..... any unclean animal. Did I use to? Yes. I made the decision about a year ago to end it. God gave us a miracle. I had a freezer full of pork chops. Me and the wife got rid of them and boom! 2 huge boxes of steak and chicken came to our doorstep for about 1/10th of the price. We had very little money to begin with. We are still eating on that meat right now.

The feast of unfermented cakes? If that's the same as the feast of Unleavened Bread, yes I celebrate this 7 day period after passover. I do this because the first and last day of this festival are high day sabbaths which fall under the 4th Commandment. Paul preached about the symbolism of leaven and unleavening (leaven = sin). This symbolism is what is followed in this 7 day feast.

The festival of booths is the Feast of Tabernacles which is a 7 day period followed by the Last Great Day. I do celebrate these days. In christianity the feast of tabernacles symbolises the 1000 year period of peace on earth under the leadership of Christ and His saints. The Last Great Day symbolises the 2nd resurrection, white throne judgement, and the New Heaven and New Earth. All together the 7 Holy Day Feasts represent God's plan for mankind. If you would like to know about these feasts in the christian world, just ask.

As far as uncleanness goes, when a woman gives birth, she is restricted for 4 to 6 weeks correct? This is our modern-day concept of the 40 days of uncleanness for a woman in ancient Israel. No fornicating is allowed during this period as the woman is unclean. I don't know about you but after my wife gave birth both times, she wouldn't let me touch her for almost 2 months. This is really no different than ancient Israel's law. Same goes for a woman's "aunt flow" time of the month. The blood is an unclean thing.

I don't mean to be rude because the two of us have had descent conversations in the past but I am finding a common theme with you. You do nothing but agree with miriam. It's as if SHE has all the answers for you. I lead you to my post to miriam for your comment on me picking and choosing my laws. I'm not doing this. God's Laws are spiritual. True we follow them physically but we should do it in a spiritual mind. Ancient Israel followed these laws because they HAD to. They put their own burden on these laws. None of these laws are "done away" with spiritually. If anything, Jesus took the role or fulfilled these "laws" of sacrifice. They were never done away with, just fulfilled. Instead of a sin sacrifice to the High Priest, we now pray to God with Jesus as our mediator to God as High Priest. The system is still there, just in a different state or manner.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


The Law of the Sabbath is part of the "Love God" portion of Jesus' Great Commandment and golden rule. God sanctified this day. It was there before God made the covenant to ancient Israel. He sanctified it right after man was created. Yes, it was part of the old covenant to ancient Israel, but it wasn't exclusive to it. Jesus even said "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." MAN, not ISRAEL. Your argument is void through that. Don't pick and choose God's commandments.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


Oh, and my wife is very happy and lives by this also. Just thought you'd like to know that. Good day to you.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by Locoman8
It was there before God made the covenant to ancient Israel. He sanctified it right after man was created. Yes, it was part of the old covenant to ancient Israel, but it wasn't exclusive to it. Jesus even said "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." MAN, not ISRAEL. Your argument is void through that. Don't pick and choose God's commandments.


so if the sabbath was something since the beginning of man, did abraham, noah, seth, or any other man before moses observe the sabbath?

your quoted statement is void if you answer no.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


. . . or any other man before moses observe the sabbath?
Job had seven sons.
Each day, he would go to one of his son's house for dinner.
Each day, he would go to a different sons house.
After seven days, he would have eaten at all of his son's houses.
At the end of each cycle, or every seven days, he would offer a sacrifice to God.


[edit on 2-6-2009 by jmdewey60]



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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Matthew 9

13But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


sinners to repentance = fixing your mistakes. That is all that is asked of anyone, fix your mistakes. Fix your mistakes and you are automatically forgiven, because you will no longer make the mistake and it will no longer be an issue.





[edit on 2-6-2009 by badmedia]



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