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Roswell Debris Confirmed As Extraterrestrial: Lab Located, Scientists Named!

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posted on May, 28 2009 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by badgerprints
 


yeah shame we cant turn ourselves into photons huh?

but in any case i wasnt saying it was impossible i was illustrating the paradoxes ufo belivers build for themselves. Congrats on missing the point.

its like the other thread where the guy tried to build a case for aliens saying theres "millions" of sightings. Well no matter what the phenomenon if theres "millions" of sightings it must be relatively easy to get a clear photo of said phenomenon. Except the ufo beleivers dont have 1 clear photo.

Millions of sightings but no photos = paradox.


[edit on 28-5-2009 by yeti101]




posted on May, 28 2009 @ 01:39 AM
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i would like to see more than the link in the OP.
this seems questionable to me.
memory metal seems sort of like a bad idea for a space ship traveling at ridiculous speeds. it appears to be quite pliable.
the only real usefulness in a vehicle is to get dents out.
if you were going to make an interplanetary vehicle wouldnt you want something that wouldnt dent in the first place?



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by Frank Warren

The military has never "opened anything," and the only thing Marcel has been proven is a patriot, who served his country admirably!




Frank,

Thank you for your courtous follow-up to my points. I've posted specifics on other threads and may be suffering form Roswell fatigue.

I've just isolated a couple of yours for now.

I believe the government released files on Project Mogul answers many of the outstanding questions.

Marcel may have been a patriot, but there are chronic conflicts in his statements in the 80s and military his record. For starters he claimed to have personally flown material to a military base, but it is shown he was never a pilot. A lot of other points as we see his story evolve from a combination of prompting and attempts to position himself more centrally into the big picture. He is untruthful.

I don't question there are unidentified flying objects, that there may be other intelligences in the universe, conceivably visiting us, or that many UFOlogists are genuinely sincere in their investigations.

But from closely following the Roswell story for many years and observing how how it morphs with added embellishments and enhancements, my conclusion is that there was no crashed vessel or alien artifacts connected with the incident.

I consider this to have become more of a information phenomenon than an inquiry to an alien encounter. As the story grows and reaches a certain critical mass, it starts attracting witnesses and newly discovered evidence. None of which seem to be able to stand up to deeper scrutiny.

Avoided by those seeking a more intriguing scenario is the uninspiring conclusion that in 1947 the military base personnel responded to something innocuous as if it could a possible national security threat or even alien encounter. Questioned decades later by UFO investigators, the aging personnel's memories and accounts shift in their anticipated direction.

In other historical documentations this course of events, people adding embellishing shamelessly, has been tracked many times with wartime memories, encounters with famous people, etc.

I'm sorry to be such a wet blanket. Roswell is a woven fabric based on a shared belief in a crashed alien vessel that never actually occurred.

There are great mysteries in our world, but this isn't one of them.


Mike




[edit on 28-5-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 07:28 AM
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reply to post by bringthelight
 


This is very interesting and I am very open minded about this topic. But there are many who claim that the military is decades ahead of what the lay person is aware of re technology ( for example military planes , the Aurora, that was mistaene for alien craft). So could this not just be military metal that was acually able to be manuafactured in 1947? The Nazis seemed to be working on very advanced craft. If we can amke it "now" it does not prove it was "alien".



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:22 AM
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*hello
*from a non-american point of view and even a third-world one Roswell is logical development of the extra-terrestrial intelligence driven unidentified flying objects theory i mean those who started it had to finish it with of course close encounters of the third kind now there's a question about keeping it secret and/or controlling info leaks about the subject one should also analyze the keeping-it-secret attitude and/or motives and find the authorities in charge either stupid,paranoid or simply anti-republican and anti-democratic unless they are not Americans or considering themselves as the only intelligent creatures living in America and among Americans and in case this is just nation-scaled entertainment
people who believe in Ets should stop by and ask themselves i have never seen an Et or met one so what is making me believe They exist ....
*i suppose that 100/100 of people on this forum never met Ets and/or never had been abducted
*thanks



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:45 AM
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*i needed to add this from 1947 to 2009 the Roswell case had never been disclosed because if it had been it would have closed down most speculations about extra-terrestrial life and intelligence and opened in the process other questionings and speculations too;in my opinion those who lead this will come out sooner and later with fabricated truth that won't reveal alien corps and alien devices but some so-called alien derivate technology this is what secret is made for
*on the other hand intra-terrestrial life and intelligence is a different topic that would make people turn their eyes down to what lies underneath their feet



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 09:53 AM
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reply to post by sail_in_the_wind
 



Ok, you win awards for the longest run-on sentence ever with that post!


But when you say,



people who believe in Ets should stop by and ask themselves i have never seen an Et or met one so what is making me believe They exist ....


Well, people of religious faith have never seen their 'God' but still believe in him. Also, the odds of intelligent life, given the vastness of the universe and all possible multiverses that may exist suggest it's highly possible and more than likely very probable, though not absolute, there's exterrestrial life.

And as for :



*i suppose that 100/100 of people on this forum never met Ets and/or never had been abducted


I don't know about meeting, but I'm sure there's a few here who have been abducted or certainly have memories of such an event, whether real or induced.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by noonebutme]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:00 AM
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*well i have trouble with keyboard



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 12:23 PM
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* and first time i ever saw that Roswell footage i remember having been shocked with the dissection scene where aliens were treated like frogs or rats in a lab...;for the guys on the footage aliens were nothing more and nothing less than that when others keep dreaming of encounters of the 3rd kind and abductions,those people were cold blooded and probably sent aliens'remnants to cremation or something like this;now all i want to say is that one should be careful and not rely on infos given by people who obviously don't care about sharing and letting others know...



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by sail_in_the_wind

first time i ever saw that Roswell footage i remember having been shocked with the dissection scene where aliens were treated like frogs or rats in a lab...;for the guys on the footage aliens were nothing more and nothing less than that when others keep dreaming of encounters of the 3rd kind and abductions,those people were cold blooded and probably sent aliens'remnants to cremation or something like this;now all i want to say is that one should be careful and not rely on infos given by people who obviously don't care about sharing and letting others know...



The Ray Santilli Alien Autopsy has been show to be a complete fraud. And not even a good one.

A dummy with some animal parts thrown around by people who had no clue about dissections.


Mike



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by noonebutme

Well, people of religious faith have never seen their 'God' but still believe in him.



This is exactly the point I try to make in many of these threads. I am willing to admit that there may be some form of life "out there", but considering the flimsy "evidence" about visitation, if you believe in aliens it is only due to faith.



Also, the odds of intelligent life, given the vastness of the universe and all possible multiverses that may exist suggest it's highly possible and more than likely very probable, though not absolute, there's exterrestrial life.


If you don't have an agenda you would also have to admit that the way the earth is at the exact distance from the sun to support life, the fibbonacci sequence/golden ratio ubiquitous in nature and the universe, the incomprehensible fact that the universe must be infinite all seem to point to an intelligent design...sorry, back to the topic...

The whole arguement about the vastness of space and all keeps getting thrown around in these "alien" debates. Speaking for myself anyway, I am not saying that I don't believe there may be life out there, I just find it highly unlikely that it has the capability to visit earth.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 12:48 PM
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Wow, one of these days I'm going to have to school myself on how to use the quote thing.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by tallcool1
 


Hmm, I have thought about those things, like the Golden Ratio and various otehr mathematical occurances in nature that seem to be anything 'but' natural. I don't know how to explain it.


I mean, perhaps the reason the Golden Ration appears in so many things we observe around us is due to... 'us'. Maybe the Earth, it's magnetic fields, it's gravity, etc -- maybe all these things have worked together to produce an otherwise normal event but we, us ever loving pattern-obsessed species, can't accept it to be 'natural'.

Honestly I have no idea.

And I'll readily admit that while I do believe in extraterrestrial life, I have never met any and so far, no images have convinced me they are genuine. So why do I? Is it faith? Personally for me, I don't think so. To me, deductive reasoning 'suggests' (not proves unequivically!) that it's highly likely.

And I simply do want it to be true. But i will, unhappily, admit defeat if it's proven otherwise. I won't close my eyes and stick my fingers in my ears and scream, "No-no-no-no-no" in the face of proof.



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by badgerprints
 


Why does everything have to be logically used?

[edit on 27-5-2009 by Gorman91]



And I will respectfully answer that with a quote from you.

"Good God, do some research and use common sense."
Originally posted by Gorman91







[edit on 28-5-2009 by badgerprints]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 06:50 PM
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[edit on 28-5-2009 by badgerprints]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 07:27 PM
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*finally it is not aliens'behaviour (if ever they exist) that matters but human kind attitude first aliens are considered as highly developed and "civilized" but all they deserve in the end is being treated as animals according to the Roswell footage i don't think it is paradox but it only shows how savage and primitive the human kind is compared to those aliens (if they ever exist) as they have been treated the way "civilized" human beings treat primitive ones by obliteration and annihilation i mean instead of trying to heal them but the Roswell committee will say that they were all dead at the time
*i don't believe they will share info and as long as it keeps people's attention away from real conspiracies....



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by badgerprints
 


Yes. Research of the past tells us Government is illogical and often dumb, especially Bureaucracy



posted on May, 29 2009 @ 12:56 AM
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An interesting post on another forum:




www.bautforum.com...

... I did a bit of research on Titanium and Nitinol on the web and I think Bragalia is reaching.

1. The process for producing Titanium was not developed until the late 1930s and the US government improved on it during the war. By 1947, the process had been developed so that mass production could occur. It had nothing to do with the spaceship crash.

2. The missing document supposedly had a phase diagram for alloying Nickel and Titanium. My guess is the same document also had a phase diagram for alloying Aluminum, Iron, etc with Titanium as well. In the early 1950's it was discovered that Titanium was ideal for making lightweight alloys. However, this phase diagram would not have a big circle on it stating "THIS IS HOW YOU MAKE NITINOL/MEMORY METAL". It would only show the percentages of metals and temperatures needed to create an alloy. The phase diagram can be found on-line.

3. The actual discovery of Nitinol is documented in metallurgical journals! Bragalia is taking the Corso method of downplaying human achievement and substituting a crashed spaceship. I guess if it sold Corso's book, it will sell Bragalia's!

[...]

4. Bragalia does not even mention Willaim Buehler, the discoverer of Nitinol. He basically is calling him and those that were part of his team liars for taking credit on how to create Nitinol.

5. The generals mentioned are Exon and Schlugen. Bragalia never talked to them and is taking excerpts from Exon's interviews. Exon clearly stated that his knowledge of Roswell had to do solely with Rumors and he had no first hand knowledge! Schlugen wrote a memo back in the 1940's about UFOs. However, Bragalia twists what he wrote. According to Bragalia:

He specifically notes the "unusual fabrication methods to achieve extreme lightweight" and that the material is of a "composite construction...using various combinations of metals."Schulgen is describing precisely some of the very characteristics of Nitinol.

Gee, most aircraft in the late 1940s used extremely lightweight alloys (i.e. combinations of metals) to achieve high speed and strength characteristics. It is not identifying the characteristics of Nitinol at all.



As one comes to expect - this is being brought to light now as part of the publicity campaign for a new Roswell Book. Facts are twisted, dots are connected, quoting out of context, crucial evidence is mysteriously missing, etc.

Next up, I'm sure: Some mysterious biologocal material samples. conveniently absent, and an out of work genetics lab technician swearing under oath it could only be from a non-Earthly life form.


Mike



posted on May, 29 2009 @ 03:06 AM
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And its not just that it couldn't be mass produced, but that the load factor for the other metals used in planes tanks etc..was like a 100 to one. These countries were preparing for war. I can't recall when Poland was invaded..but every piece of metal used to make steeel was being tapped by everyone, allies and the axis pwers..The US afterthe war estimated we put out 123 odd million tons for the european theater alone.. Lets not forget copper..when the steel pennies kicked in. Lots of chemical research also, though to find additives to fuel to fight harsh winters, like Russias. Put once the war kicked in it was go with what you have. The Manhattan project could have easily provide a venue for requiring something like that, that Race started in the late thirties, when Germany announced an odd result, that scientists like Fermi, and Einstein knew..Uranium had been based on a production of barium in a reaction. never seen before. There was an anergy conversion..fission...thats when the Germans clammed up..papers disappeared, books came off shelves everywhere
Scroll down to last mag cover..all others just as interesting..you may not want to leave.
blog.modernmechanix.com...

.up until then, it was like us researching and publishing then boom. silence, thus a reason for work stopping on the other, as the priorities changed.. and aftewards started up again..for high altitude balloons and afterwards for the rocketry, medical use, etc etc.I believe we touched lightly, on that earlier.

So there is nothing out of sequence here to say..Lord..that wasn't supposed to be in existence yet. How in heavens name did they Know?..
We know now don't we. Its actually a very normal progression , and exploded just like the key to mass producing Aluminum .
When these books are being put out..the people have marketing teams that know exactly how to maximize spin with extremely little, just sheer nuance and omission.. as was done with the Bragglia statements, that are meant to create intrigue, rather than answer questions.imo.
I am not calling them liars, they may be very good people, but rather, they are leaving out the surrounding historical context which is just as bad and unacceptable.







[edit on 29-5-2009 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 29-5-2009 by Sys_Config]



posted on May, 29 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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Afternoon Mike,


Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Frank Warren

The military has never "opened anything," and the only thing Marcel has been proven is a patriot, who served his country admirably!





Frank,

Thank you for your courtous follow-up to my points. I've posted specifics on other threads and may be suffering form Roswell fatigue.

I've just isolated a couple of yours for now.

I believe the government released files on Project Mogul answers many of the outstanding questions.


It certainly makes things clearer; Although the military's injection of Mogul, as their "3rd explanation of what occurred near Roswell in '47 (the first being a "Flying Saucer," the second being a "weather balloon" and fourth being anthropomorphic 6' tall dummies dropped 5 years later [as an explanation for the little guys"]) added some mystique for the ignorant, as it was a "top secret" project; however, what is repeatedly overlooked is that it was still a "common neoprene balloon" with rawin targets.

Balloon launchings in New Mexico were a common occurrence; ranchers were savvy to them as they were a danger to livestock, and to suggest that anyone from the RAAF couldn't identify one is (no offense) ludicrous!


Marcel may have been a patriot, but there are chronic conflicts in his statements in the 80s and military his record. For starters he claimed to have personally flown material to a military base, but it is shown he was never a pilot.


There is no argument that some of his statements aren't supported by his military record; however, that doesn't make him a liar; you wield his military record as an end-all definitive weapon, and I can assure it is not.

During that time period DA 20's were filled out "by interview of the subject" (soldier, airman, officer etc) in question--it wasn't an absolute science, and there was/is plenty of room of errors and or omissions.

A further example of the "chaos" is currently the military says that "there is no service record for Jesse Marcel"--I have that in black and white from the NPRC--so if you take everything stated by the military as "gospel" what does that do to your ideology? I know his record exists, and that this response IS IN ERROR.


A lot of other points as we see his story evolve from a combination of prompting and attempts to position himself more centrally into the big picture. He is untruthful.


Marcel, never tried to position himself into anything; he was a good soldier and did what he was told--he was the public scapegoat! Had the station director in Baton Rouge not told Stan Friedman about Jesse, Roswell would still be the sleepy little town it was prior to 1978!

Moreover, he certainly was "untruthful!" HE was told to lie about what he retrieved from the Foster Ranch, and followed those orders.


I don't question there are unidentified flying objects, that there may be other intelligences in the universe, conceivably visiting us, or that many UFOlogists are genuinely sincere in their investigations.

But from closely following the Roswell story for many years and observing how how it morphs with added embellishments and enhancements, my conclusion is that there was no crashed vessel or alien artifacts connected with the incident.


There is no question that "the facts have been blurred"; this is most often caused by people who haven't done their own research and by the spreading of someone else's flapdoodle.


I consider this to have become more of a information phenomenon than an inquiry to an alien encounter. As the story grows and reaches a certain critical mass, it starts attracting witnesses and newly discovered evidence. None of which seem to be able to stand up to deeper scrutiny.


Being personally involved in Roswell research, and having interviewed previously unknown witnesses, and or family thereof, what you call a "story growing," I call "hard work and good research!"


Avoided by those seeking a more intriguing scenario is the uninspiring conclusion that in 1947 the military base personnel responded to something innocuous as if it could a possible national security threat or even alien encounter. Questioned decades later by UFO investigators, the aging personnel's memories and accounts shift in their anticipated direction.


Base personnel responded appropriately because "flying saucers" had been flying all over the country with impunity; Blanchard would have been derelict in duty had he not sent someone to investigate a report of an unidentified aircraft in such close proximity to the only nuclear armed airbase in the world.

Contrary to the a fore mentioned dogma, most eyewitnesses (specifically military) are reticent in talking about their respective UFO experiences. The "presumed" direction is not one of cooperation or, "pro-UFO."


In other historical documentations this course of events, people adding embellishing shamelessly, has been tracked many times with wartime memories, encounters with famous people, etc.


It is a fact that some who have claimed to be involved with Roswell have embellished and or flat-out lied about their involvement with the event; however, that does not negate the preponderance of evidence.


I'm sorry to be such a wet blanket. Roswell is a woven fabric based on a shared belief in a crashed alien vessel that never actually occurred.

There are great mysteries in our world, but this isn't one of them.


Mike

[edit on 28-5-2009 by mmiichael]


Stating your opinion as you see it, is not being a wet blanket . . . it is just an exchange of views.

However, in this instance you just happen to be wrong.

Respectfully,
Frank





[edit on 29-5-2009 by Frank Warren]



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