Did North Korea just test a Nuke? YES they did!

reply to post by ANNED


I think NK, has no clue what the United States is capable of doing. We don't need to nuke North Korea, our biggest problems with wars we win is what to do with the country after we conquer it. We usually stick around and rebuild it. So in ahem, not something we really like to do taking Iraq, as our last example.. Anyhow I think North Korea, has finally lost its mind. I can understand needing nukes for protection or what have you, but I don't trust them, this should be an Asian problem to deal with as well. Also some other nice weapons to look at are our blue 82's man. www.globalsecurity.org... If north Korea, wants to do whatever they are doing right now, they just need to keep America outta it. With south Korea a ally, and Japan I am not sure who else is there for them to mess with. Also why would North Korea be scared of America anyway? they have nothing we want... Absolutely nothing, even if they did, why do they think they need nukes? For threats? That won't get them far..

more irony, after some simple research seems kim, ordered a black out by yesterday.. To tired to try to explain this here is the link. www.dailynk.com...


[edit on 25-5-2009 by Adrifter]

[edit on 25-5-2009 by Adrifter]

It now appears North Korea is about to test some more short range missiles on top of the already conducted nuclear test.

Idiots...

N. Korea, Slammed by U.N., Readies Rockets
www.foxnews.com...

-ChriS

Originally posted by sy.gunson
It was not obvious to the North Koreans at the first test that they had too much PU-240. The two isotopes of Plutonium are indistinguishable at first glance. the only clue is that Pu-240 is an active gamma emitter, whilst less contaminated Pu-239 has very low emissions.

This is basic nuclear weaponeering. They should have been aware of this at the start of their nuclear program.
There is some other problem rather than P-240 contamination that caused a fizzle of the first test. Most likely it was badly designed weapon. IMO a lack of a sufficiently sperical shockwave to cruch the pit.

This is basic nuclear weaponeering. They should have been aware of this at the start of their nuclear program.

Given NK is a self taught nuclear power (unless you can advise us differently ?) you have to assume that what you find obvious, isn't, but hey if you want to send Kim Il Jong your CV, be my guest.

North Korea is likely as self-taught in nuclear design as it is in missiles.
A country with such inferior education and raw supply should be incapable of producing the technical expertise necessary to create a nuclear bomb, much less an ICBM, or IRBM.

I mean, the country still has yet to master moving from one thrust stage to another in long-range rockets, do you really believe a nuclear device is less advanced than that? Including the infrastructure it takes to develop the science necessary?

I was under the impression that North Korea learned how to make a nuke from a Pakistani scientist. abcnews.go.com...

In Pakistan, Khan is a hero, the man who created the world's only Islamic nuclear state. But in 2004, he admitted selling nuclear technology to Iran, North Korea and Libya

Khan is a modern day Dr Mengle.

In fact Khan and co got their expertise from Libya when Pakistan was trying to acquire the bomb. In return for expertise I have no doubt North Korea provided something in return to Pakistan.

I wonder why N.K is doing all this!!

And what will they do if we tighten the rope even more?


If there breaks out a war i feel sorry for all the Americans that will die in the name of foreign relations. What a waste of life and time.

Are Americans borne to kill?

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Kill, or protect ?

In case you don't read headlines It is North Korea and Iran who have been making militaristic threats for the past decade.

As for me, I come from little old New Zealand which hasn't invaded anybody in lord knows how long and from where I am sitting, Iran and NK still look like the trouble makers.

Do you propose doing nothing ?

Well Britain stood by and did nothing during the Spanish Civil war and helped Hitler carve up Czechoslovakia all so they could have peace at any price.

In 1940 USA stood by and did nothing so they could have peace at any price.

The lesson from all that which the world still has not learned is if you let a bully get away with it, they just get bolder until you have a blood bath. Letting bullies do their thing until they get too powerful to oppose is not a solution.

Originally posted by sy.gunson

Do you propose doing nothing ?

I propose we allow North Korea to Continue to build nuclear reactors and nuclear bombs.

North Korea should be allowed to have their own nuclear deterrent force.

We should continue to interfere - our sanctions primarily affect the civilian populace.


Lots of other nations have nuclear weapons:

List of states with nuclear weapons



[edit on 26-5-2009 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by spy66
I wonder why N.K is doing all this!!

And what will they do if we tighten the rope even more?


If there breaks out a war i feel sorry for all the Americans that will die in the name of foreign relations. What a waste of life and time.

Are Americans borne to kill?

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

I no longer subscribe to the idea that they are seeking attention and aid through these actions.

The closure of the shared manufacturing site between North and South did damage their economy. This place was huge, and it offered financial opportunities that the north desperately needed.

I have thought for a long time that Kim was dead or incapacitated, and power has been taken by a tougher military group.

This flurry of activity hasn't just appeared from nothing. As soon as there were suspicions that Kim was ill or possibly deceased, they cut ties, closed the joint industrial site, began making threats... and now they are testing nukes and launching rockets.

They ARE preparing for something.

If they were simply after aid and so on, they would have stopped at the nuclear test and waited for the response from Washington. They are using the assumption that it's for aid as a cover to prepare an attack against the South IMO.

And what will happen? Nothing.
The UN will have meetings and debate, Obama will "condemn" their actions (as will every leader) and the North will destroy the South and steal everything they have worked hard to build.

It would solve a lot of problems for the North and this is the right time to invade;
America is distracted with a new leader, economic problems and wars on two fronts already. The rest of the world sat around and had meetings while Israel attacked Gaza, and that set a terrible precedent.
Every other nation on Earth has shown that they are unwilling and incapable of defending or attacking any nation unless there is financial gain.

The North do not want to admit that their regime has failed. The leadership doesn't want to show their desperation to their own people.
Aid in return for peace is a minuscule offering compared to everything they would gain from control of the South.

I honestly think that we are all being too complacent now, I don't think this is just posturing for aid, they are relying on our assumption of that to prepare for an all-out attack on the South.


Edit:
Another thing that makes me wonder is that we apparently invaded Iraq because of weapons of mass destruction. There were no tests going on, no real threats (obviously) and yet, when a nation like N.Korea is actually doing it, really posing a great threat to stability in the region, we all just sit around and have meetings about it.


[edit on 26-5-2009 by detachedindividual]

Originally posted by Republican08
I have a funny feeling Obama's out barbequing right now, wait how stupid am I, he's having someone else barbeque for him pardon my ignorance.

This adminstration is very loose, albeit bush wasn't great, but I did feel relatively safe during it, this one I feel N. Korea could launch a nuke over here, and while it was coming Obama would just hold a press conference with a teleprompter telling everyone it'll be ok, then big smile for photo op.

fear mongering and fact distortion at it's worst.

North Korea tested a nuke while the US has it's attention in 100 different directions mainly due thanks to the Bush Administration.

It's time for the rest of the world to start helping the USA enforce some of these global treaties and Laws.

reply to post by detachedindividual


I totally agree. NK regime is desperate not to be overthrown by inside or outside. His power is weakening so they get tougher and tougher. They are preparing for an attack or outside influence.
They won't attack anybody, they can't, they are isolated. The goal of the regime is to survive. By showing military power and capabilities, they want to discourage external influence. They are cornered by China and South Korea. They are inside China sphere of influence, no way you mess with them and China won't let them do stupid things.

Also, keep in mind that NK regime survival is vital to USA. It legitimates the american military presence in South Korea and Western Pacific. It allows american bases which can operate in the defense of Japan. This is a keystone of the american geostrategy. They need those bases in order to counter China regional power. Japan is a very valuable asset with a powerful economy. Should NK turn democratic, should the bases close, if Japan thinks it cannot rely on USA for defense anymore and in fear of China, it will be a major reshape of the distribution of power in Eastern Asia.
Everybody wants status quo at the noticeable exception of China. Don't expect much more than verbal condemnations.

Originally posted by sy.gunson

This is basic nuclear weaponeering. They should have been aware of this at the start of their nuclear program.

Given NK is a self taught nuclear power (unless you can advise us differently ?) you have to assume that what you find obvious, isn't, but hey if you want to send Kim Il Jong your CV, be my guest.

Ahem, you make plenty of assumptions without any knowledge of the NK nuclear weapons program. Feel free to post the layout and goals of their program as it seems you have a personal relationship with the NK leadership.

As for collusion more likely than not, China probably transferred technology and expertise to NK not to mention training some of their physicists.

It is well known that if China didn't want NK to have the bomb they wouldn't. China possesses a strangled hold over NK with power supply, food and political support. It is no accident that NK have the bomb, China gave it to them.

Thankyou all for the kind words and thanks for the great read... all these posts Love the Applause

I do wonder why NK can jump about firing Nukes and all the other crazy stuff and nobody does anything yet in Iraq the mere mention of Nukes and thats it..... were going in?

Madness.

reply to post by komp_uk


NK are a very powerful military force that is the problem.

They have the 4th largest army in the world with 1M strong and another 7M in reserve. More importantly they have learnt from 50's and have an enormous amount of artillery, alot of it trained on Seoul. Any invasion and some analysts believe artillery alone on SK would lead to 100,000 dead in the first hour. Lets hope it certainly doesn't come to that.

reply to post by rogue1


China wouldnt see them nuclear tech or for that matter train them they dont trust North Korea any more than we do. If they bought it most likely was from Pakistan.

That was the year when Dr Khan sent Libya 20 complete centrifuges and material for 200 more. In 2000, Khan supplied two P-2 maraging steel centrifuges for testing. Libya ordered 10,000 P-2 machines from Dr Khan who made the delivery in December 2000. In 2003, Libya decided to abandon the project and come clean (p.110). BSA Tahir confessed to Malaysian authorities that Dr Khan supplied 1.87 tons of uranium hexafluoride to Libya in 2001. Dr Khan also supplied to Libya the complete nuclear component designs and instruction about how to build a nuclear bomb. The complete nuclear bomb would have resembled a Chinese nuclear bomb dating from the late 1960s. Since the last supply made was in 2002, the Libyan decision to come clean must have been sudden. In February 2003, Iran told IAEA that it had been building two enrichment facilities at Natanz. In June 2003, Iran tested its first centrifuge, and in August 2003 began the test operation of the ten-machine cascade with UF6. In 2006, President Ahmadinejad announced Iran had enriched uranium. In 2007, he said Iran had 3,000 centrifuges enriching uranium and could graduate to the weapons level enrichment in a year. The book says without AQ Khan Iran could not have come to the threshold of nuclear power. Iran was the first country to receive centrifuges from Mr Khan. According to IAEA, he made the sale to Iran of all the required elements in 1987 in Dubai.

So, I've read up until page 12 and decided to stop because I finally wanted to post something!

Anyway, whether this is just a case of "show and tell" doesn't really bother me. What bothers me is that it might get sold to say some other country as Iran, who then in turn uses it on Israel or they give it to a terrorist/extremist group who then us it on the USA. (Then again, our own government can do that to us, so I don't know why I'm worrying about them )

Seeing as how they just recently tested two more missiles, what are they really trying to prove? They want to be all big and bad, have the toys that the rest of the "boys" have, and all that good stuff. Kim Jong Ill/NK know that sanctions are a probable reaction to their testing so would he REALLY want to make his soldiers/people suffer even more?

Whatever the case is, I'll be watching it. More interesting things to come, I'm sure.

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by rogue1

 

China wouldnt see them nuclear tech or for that matter train them they dont trust North Korea any more than we do. If they bought it most likely was from Pakistan.

You'd be surprised, China can bend NK to it's anytime it wants. Pyongyang is economically dependent on China, which provides most of its food and energy supplies. North Korea gets about 70 percent of its food and 70 to 80 percent of its fuel from China. Beijing is Pyongyang's largest trading partner, and an estimated 300,000 North Koreans live in China, many of them migrant workers who send much-needed remittances back home.

China has long served as a safe harbor for North Korean proliferation and illicit trading networks and a transport hub for these networks via its airports and airspace, harbors and sea space. Moreover, in the past decade there have been way too many incidents of Chinese companies actively fronting for North Korea in the procurement of key technologies for the DPRK’s nuclear program. Some of these incidents suggest lax enforcement of export controls, poor border controls, and a head-in-the-sand attitude of senior authorities. Others suggest active collusion and/or deliberately weak enforcement of international laws and agreements against WMD and missile proliferation. There is a great body of information about this and the Chi­nese are well aware of our grave concerns.
www.heritage.org...

If China hadn't wanted NK to develop a nuclear weapon they wouldn't have.