Cops forcefully drawing blood-drunk driving

Originally posted by Illuminatus I
Originally posted by jfj123
You can be anyone you like for any purpose you like. It doesn't change the fact that I wouldn't allow my Constitutional rights to be violated.

What would you do? Beat up the cops and go on a high speed chase? You can't refuse the test.

Simply put I would demand to be subject to a defacto judgement againt me which I could fight in court. I would explain that they could not take my blood against my will as it violates my Constitutional rights. If I had to defend myself against an assault & battery, I would but I would prefer to straighten it out with a supervisor.

For the record, I would NEVER drink and drive but if I had a choice between taking a defacto judgement or having my blood drawn against my will, I'd take the judgement.

Enjoy losing your license.

This is all hypothetical since I would never drink and drive but sometimes you need to make small sacrifices to prevent Constitutional violations.

You still don't get that it's not just about your blood. Are you familiar with the United States Constitution?

It's all about your blood.

NOPE. Most people get what this is really about. Unfortunately, you're not able to understand it. Sorry to see that but I can't make you understand it.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by jfj123]

Originally posted by jfj123
I've been trying to explain this fact to you for awhile now but you've just not caught on until now.

Funny, considering I'm the one that brought it up.

There are nurses and doctors who have a hard time finding good veins under the best of conditions

This tells a lot about your position. You are just against drawing blood no matter what. Stop hiding behind the constitution. This is all about blood.

Still not getting it. Wow you're thick.

Maybe your just a little to thin.

That's right. Everyone is just bringing it on themselves. We should tell the jews in nazi germany that too ! They just brought it on themselves.

Hey, if you get behind the wheel drunk, you ARE bringing it upon yourself. What is it that you don't understand about drunk driving? They aren't drawing blood from everyone.

Really? That easy huh? Just curious but when a cop pulls behind you when you're driving, do you get a bit nervous even though you're doing nothing wrong. Most people do. Why do you think that is????

If you start swerving and showing signs of drunk driving if a cop gets behind you, you shouldn't be on the road in the first place. Cops are a normal part of driving. If they mess with you so much that you get pulled over for doing nothing, perhaps you have a personal problem and should receive some more driver training.

I wonder if this is part of some larger scheme like spreading an artificially created virus? Or perhaps it is just pure stupidity. Nonetheless, the cops should be using better ways that are noninvasive. I imagine it would be dangerous to take blood under in the night under those awful sodium vapor streetlights. There is a disease (I forget what its called) where if you are cut you can't stop bleeding and you'll die, no matter how small the wound is because it won't heal. Would the cops have the means to deal with this if the scenario arises? I hate drunk drivers as well, but we can never trade our liberty for security. There are much better ways to catch drunk drivers than with blood tests don't require the risk of spreading disease!

Kill the vamps!


[edit on 26-5-2009 by yayap3]

Originally posted by Illuminatus I
Originally posted by jfj123
I've been trying to explain this fact to you for awhile now but you've just not caught on until now.

Funny, considering I'm the one that brought it up.

No you weren't.

There are nurses and doctors who have a hard time finding good veins under the best of conditions

This tells a lot about your position. You are just against drawing blood no matter what. Stop hiding behind the constitution. This is all about blood.

You obviously just don't get it. No I'm not against having blood drawn. I've had plenty of blood drawn in my day and have had it drawn by experienced nurses and doctors and inexperienced nurses and doctors and they've had years of experience over A SINGLE CLASS. Ask any nurse and they'll tell you it takes awhile to be able to do it well. This is pretty simple so I'm not sure why you're not getting this ????

Still not getting it. Wow you're thick.

Maybe your just a little to thin.

No I was right the first time....you're thick.

That's right. Everyone is just bringing it on themselves. We should tell the jews in nazi germany that too ! They just brought it on themselves.

Hey, if you get behind the wheel drunk, you ARE bringing it upon yourself. What is it that you don't understand about drunk driving? They aren't drawing blood from everyone.

Yes we'll only violate the Constitutional rights of a small segment of the population. Yes I understand they did something wrong... Yes I get that and have mentioned it from the beginning.
As an example, let's say someone was driving without a license and was pulled over. The cop decides to pull the person out of the car and beat him. Did he have it coming?

Really? That easy huh? Just curious but when a cop pulls behind you when you're driving, do you get a bit nervous even though you're doing nothing wrong. Most people do. Why do you think that is????

If you start swerving and showing signs of drunk driving if a cop gets behind you, you shouldn't be on the road in the first place. Cops are a normal part of driving. If they mess with you so much that you get pulled over for doing nothing, perhaps you have a personal problem and should receive some more driver training.

I notice you didn't answer my question. Ask anyone you like and most will tell you, if they're being honest, that they get nervous when a cop is behind them. You can pretend or lie about it but that's the truth. It has nothing to do with bad drivers or personal problems with cops.

I lost my fiance to a drunk driver in Dallas. The blood taking won't change things at all. It is just a waste of money. Drunks will drive regardless of how solid a case can be made against them.

Originally posted by jfj123

Funny, considering I'm the one that brought it up.

No you weren't.

Wow.

You obviously just don't get it. No I'm not against having blood drawn. I've had plenty of blood drawn in my day and have had it drawn by experienced nurses and doctors and inexperienced nurses and doctors and they've had years of experience over A SINGLE CLASS. Ask any nurse and they'll tell you it takes awhile to be able to do it well. This is pretty simple so I'm not sure why you're not getting this ????

You are against blood being drawn by cops, and that's the bottom line. It all comes down to blood. You can hide behind all the excuses that you want, but it's clear to see.

No I was right the first time....you're thick.

Blood is thicker than water, and it's all about blood.

Yes we'll only violate the Constitutional rights of a small segment of the population. Yes I understand they did something wrong... Yes I get that and have mentioned it from the beginning.
As an example, let's say someone was driving without a license and was pulled over. The cop decides to pull the person out of the car and beat him. Did he have it coming?

You'd have it coming, that's for sure.

I notice you didn't answer my question. Ask anyone you like and most will tell you, if they're being honest, that they get nervous when a cop is behind them. You can pretend or lie about it but that's the truth. It has nothing to do with bad drivers or personal problems with cops.

I'm not answering plenty of your questions because they have nothing in common with the topic here. You are over here talking about people getting beat by cops and cops drawing blood.

Did you even read the article or do any further research into how the program works?

Tell me then, who is going to be drawing blood?

Originally posted by earthman4
I lost my fiance to a drunk driver in Dallas. The blood taking won't change things at all. It is just a waste of money. Drunks will drive regardless of how solid a case can be made against them.

I'm very sorry to hear about your loss and unfortunately, you are correct.

I'm not sure what the answer is to fix the problem but I agree that blood taking is a waste of money and resources.

Thanks for you post.

Originally posted by Illuminatus I

Yes we'll only violate the Constitutional rights of a small segment of the population. Yes I understand they did something wrong... Yes I get that and have mentioned it from the beginning.
As an example, let's say someone was driving without a license and was pulled over. The cop decides to pull the person out of the car and beat him. Did he have it coming?

You'd have it coming, that's for sure.

Nobody should have their Constitutional right violated regardless of what they did. It's a slippery slope.

Did you even read the article or do any further research into how the program works?

Yes, I've actually posted SEVERAL articles.

Some of which state that officers will take said suspects to hospitals to have their blood drawn.
Some state that there will be stations set up with qualified personnel.
Some state that officers will be able to take blood with you cuffed over the rear of a cop car.

It depends on what area of the country you want to discuss.

Originally posted by jfj123
Nobody should have their Constitutional right violated regardless of what they did. It's a slippery slope.

At least you can identify your own logical fallacies.

Did you even read the article or do any further research into how the program works?

Yes, I've actually posted SEVERAL articles.

Some of which state that officers will take said suspects to hospitals to have their blood drawn.
Some state that there will be stations set up with qualified personnel.
Some state that officers will be able to take blood with you cuffed over the rear of a cop car.

It depends on what area of the country you want to discuss.



You are not reading the articles. Nowhere does it say that people will be forced to have their blood drawn. As I've stated before, if you refuse it, you'll get arrested and charged with DUI. Enjoy losing your license because you won't be able to get out of the charges after the fact.

... especially If I'm the judge and you wind up in my court room!

I'll charge you and there is nothing you can do about it!

You and your "slippery-slope" crap turn every perceived infraction of liberty into the next one down the line. You need to focus.

Originally posted by Illuminatus I
Originally posted by jfj123
Nobody should have their Constitutional right violated regardless of what they did. It's a slippery slope.

At least you can identify your own logical fallacies.

So you think it's ok to violate the Constitution???? YES or NO

Did you even read the article or do any further research into how the program works?

Yes, I've actually posted SEVERAL articles.

Some of which state that officers will take said suspects to hospitals to have their blood drawn.
Some state that there will be stations set up with qualified personnel.
Some state that officers will be able to take blood with you cuffed over the rear of a cop car.

It depends on what area of the country you want to discuss.

You are not reading the articles. Nowhere does it say that people will be forced to have their blood drawn.

Yes it does. Try reading the articles.

As I've stated before, if you refuse it, you'll get arrested and charged with DUI.

You can't refuse it.

Enjoy losing your license because you won't be able to get out of the charges after the fact.

That would be true. You seem to be associating me with drinking and driving and losing MY license. I'm not sure why.....in any case I have never drank and drove and never will.

... especially If I'm the judge and you wind up in my court room!

Now you're a judge huh

I'll charge you and there is nothing you can do about it!

Actually, as the hypothetical person, I still would have a number of options. I could go for an appeal, I could try and get you removed from the case due to your obvious bias, etc, etc, etc...

You and your "slippery-slope" crap turn every perceived infraction of liberty into the next one down the line. You need to focus.

Yes heaven forbid anyone be concerned about the loss of our Constitutional rights. Obviously you have no use for the Constitution and everything it stands for. Maybe you should move somewhere that doesn't have a Constitution and you don't need to worry about having any rights. Sounds like that's the right place for you

[edit on 26-5-2009 by jfj123]

[edit on 26-5-2009 by jfj123]

Originally posted by jfj123

Yes it does. Try reading the articles.

As I've stated before, if you refuse it, you'll get arrested and charged with DUI.

You can't refuse it.

Mandatory does not mean physically forced to do so.

From the Dallas Article (comment section)

Upon the arrest of a suspected drunken driver, he or she will be asked if they would submit to blow into a breath-test machine or take a blood test. If the driver refuses and says 'no,' officers will obtain an immediate search warrant signed by a judge on call to have blood drawn by a nurse on staff at the Smith County Jail," said Don Martin, Tyler Police public information officer.

www.dallascriminaldefenselawyerblog.com...

From the Florida article:

If drivers refuse to have their blood drawn, they will be arrested and charged with DUI.

... and you can find the same thing about Arizona.

That would be true. You seem to be associating me with drinking and driving and losing MY license. I'm not sure why.....in any case I have never drank and drove and never will.

I'll charge you and there is nothing you can do about it!

Actually, as the hypothetical person, I still would have a number of options. I could go for an appeal, I could try and get you removed from the case due to your obvious bias, etc, etc, etc...


The appeals judge is my best friend, and I told him to charge you with attempted vehicular manslaughter. You'll have better things to worry about now than getting stabbed with a needle.

Yes heaven forbid anyone be concerned about the loss of our Constitutional rights. Obviously you have no use for the Constitution and everything it stands for. Maybe you should move somewhere that doesn't have a Constitution and you don't need to worry about having any rights. Sounds like that's the right place for you

There you go again with the slippery slope. I don't agree with the premise at the top of the slope, so you automatically place me at the bottom.

.. You want me to leave the country? You're just like Hitler! Maybe you want to genocide my kind too, huh? You evil nazi!

reply to post by Illuminatus I


This Weekend, Dallas Police to Make Drunk Drivers an Offer They Can't Refuse.

A word of caution before you head out for the long Memorial Day weekend: It's also No-Refusal Weekend. Which means? Well, if Dallas police pull suspect you're drinking and driving, you'll be stuck with a butterfly needle attached to a vacuum-packed container, and two vials' worth of your blood will taken and tested. And, no, you can't refuse the test; hence the name, as discussed in our cover story on the very subject last month.

Originally posted by Illuminatus I

I'll charge you and there is nothing you can do about it!

Actually, as the hypothetical person, I still would have a number of options. I could go for an appeal, I could try and get you removed from the case due to your obvious bias, etc, etc, etc...

The appeals judge is my best friend, and I told him to charge you with attempted vehicular manslaughter. You'll have better things to worry about now than getting stabbed with a needle.

I know Barack personally. He'll take care of your appeals judge

Yes heaven forbid anyone be concerned about the loss of our Constitutional rights. Obviously you have no use for the Constitution and everything it stands for. Maybe you should move somewhere that doesn't have a Constitution and you don't need to worry about having any rights. Sounds like that's the right place for you

There you go again with the slippery slope. I don't agree with the premise at the top of the slope, so you automatically place me at the bottom.

You've placed yourself there.

.. You want me to leave the country? You're just like Hitler! Maybe you want to genocide my kind too, huh? You evil nazi!

No I don't want you to leave the country, I want you to grow up and realize what's going on around you but that seems very unlikely. I gave you the suggestion that maybe this country is not a good fit for you. Live wherever you like but obviously you don't like our Constitution so why would you want to live here under it?

[edit on 26-5-2009 by jfj123]

Originally posted by jfj123
reply to post by Illuminatus I

 

This Weekend, Dallas Police to Make Drunk Drivers an Offer They Can't Refuse.

A word of caution before you head out for the long Memorial Day weekend: It's also No-Refusal Weekend. Which means? Well, if Dallas police pull suspect you're drinking and driving, you'll be stuck with a butterfly needle attached to a vacuum-packed container, and two vials' worth of your blood will taken and tested. And, no, you can't refuse the test; hence the name, as discussed in our cover story on the very subject last month.

Haven't you ever learned to get your information from more than once source?

You can keep spreading and believing this sensationalist garbage if you want to, but you are only fooling yourself and other gullible people out there. They just aren't telling the public that they can refuse cause they don't want all the drunken idiots refusing and wasting community resources by obtaining warrants and such.

Upon the arrest of a suspected drunken driver, he or she will be asked if they would submit to blow into a breath-test machine or take a blood test. If the driver refuses and says 'no,' officers will obtain an immediate search warrant signed by a judge on call to have blood drawn by a nurse on staff at the Smith County Jail," said Don Martin, Tyler Police public information officer.

Bobby Mims, public affairs officer for the Smith County Criminal Defense Lawyers Association, said Monday that the group met and came up with an appropriate response to the "No Refusal" weekend announced by Tyler police.

He said defense attorneys are not telling the public to refuse the test but want the public, as well as law enforcement officers and judges, to know that sufficient probable cause based on evidence is needed for a search warrant and that just refusing a breath test is not sufficient.

He said just because it is a "No Refusal" weekend, doesn't mean people don't have a defense.

"You do have a defense, and we're going to provide it to our clients," Mims said.
www.dallascriminaldefenselawyerblog.com...

Originally posted by jfj123

No I don't want you to leave the country, I want you to grow up and realize what's going on around you but that seems very unlikely. I gave you the suggestion that maybe this country is not a good fit for you. Live wherever you like but obviously you don't like our Constitution so why would you want to live here under it?

You obviously don't like the safety and security which this country has provided you, so it is you who should leave.

Maybe you'd like to go to the nation of Drunkdrivastan with all the other airbag heads!

Don't like the constitution, sheesh. I served in the Military to protect the constitution. I've lived in 7 foreign countries. You need to get a little exposure to reality.

Anyway, if your constitution is so great, why does it allow itself to be trampled on?

Originally posted by Illuminatus I
Originally posted by jfj123

No I don't want you to leave the country, I want you to grow up and realize what's going on around you but that seems very unlikely. I gave you the suggestion that maybe this country is not a good fit for you. Live wherever you like but obviously you don't like our Constitution so why would you want to live here under it?

You obviously don't like the safety and security which this country has provided you, so it is you who should leave.

I'm happy with my Constitutional freedoms and strive to keep them so I'm good here. Thanks though. Sorry you despise our Constitution...not sure why but whatever floats your boat.

Maybe you'd like to go to the nation of Drunkdrivastan with all the other airbag heads!

Wow that is just sooo clever....tee hee...tee hee...

Don't like the constitution, sheesh.

Nope. You've shown nothing but disdain for our Constitution.

I served in the Military to protect the constitution.

Based on what you've said so far, I wouldn't believe you if you told me you served waffles let alone serve in the military.

Anyway, if your constitution is so great, why does it allow itself to be trampled on?

It doesn't. People like you do !

Originally posted by jfj123

I'm happy with my Constitutional freedoms and strive to keep them so I'm good here. Thanks though. Sorry you despise our Constitution...not sure why but whatever floats your boat.

It is not a constitutional right to drive drunk, pal.

Wow that is just sooo clever....tee hee...tee hee...

Likewise.

Nope. You've shown nothing but disdain for our Constitution.

You've shown nothing but disdain for those who have been killed by drunk drivers.

Based on what you've said so far, I wouldn't believe you if you told me you served waffles let alone serve in the military.

Considering all the other things you believe, I am not surprised!

It doesn't. People like you do !

I'd rather trample on a piece of paper than trample on a person.

Originally posted by Illuminatus I
Originally posted by jfj123

I'm happy with my Constitutional freedoms and strive to keep them so I'm good here. Thanks though. Sorry you despise our Constitution...not sure why but whatever floats your boat.

It is not a constitutional right to drive drunk, pal.

You can try and twist what I've been saying but it doesn't make you any more right, just more wrong.

Nope. You've shown nothing but disdain for our Constitution.

You've shown nothing but disdain for those who have been killed by drunk drivers.

Not at all. If you've actually read any of my posts, I've been saying all along that drunk drivers should have the book thrown at them.

Based on what you've said so far, I wouldn't believe you if you told me you served waffles let alone serve in the military.

Considering all the other things you believe, I am not surprised!

If find you making up your military service repugnant.

It doesn't. People like you do !

I'd rather trample on a piece of paper than trample on a person.

This shows your mentality very well.
1. It's not a piece of paper.
2. By trampling on the Constitution, you're trampling on every American including all those who've sacrificed and died defending it.

In any case, you're not interested in debating the merits of this thread or it's contents. Your only interest is to bait me into an argument. Your simplistic, transparent attempts at trolling are done. Unless you're interesting in discussing info within the thread as a reasonable adult, don't bother responding to me as I won't be responding. Your childish attempts at starting a fight are simply not worth my time.
Enjoy your day

Originally posted by jfj123
You can try and twist what I've been saying but it doesn't make you any more right, just more wrong.

You can keep avoiding the topic: drunk driving; you can do it all you like. This has nothing to do with the constitution because the tests are not mandatory. You can refuse them. If you'd get that through your skull, then you'd realize your whole basis for argument is absurd.

Not at all. If you've actually read any of my posts, I've been saying all along that drunk drivers should have the book thrown at them.

Yeah, except in the case where they refuse to have their blood drawn and be proven drunk.

If find you making up your military service repugnant.

I find your disbelief in light with your position: WRONG.

This shows your mentality very well.
1. It's not a piece of paper.
2. By trampling on the Constitution, you're trampling on every American including all those who've sacrificed and died defending it.

1. It is a piece of paper. It was written on paper.

2. You worship the constitution.

3. I've served to protect it (i.e. staked my life on it). It doesn't mean it isn't flawed or that I worship it. You think it's the best thing since sliced bread because you lack forethought.

4. You fail to recognize that this is our SECOND CONSTITUTION.

5. The first one was just a piece of paper.

6. See #1

In any case, you're not interested in debating the merits of this thread or it's contents. Your only interest is to bait me into an argument. Your simplistic, transparent attempts at trolling are done.

That's funny. Are you claiming I'm doing the above, or are you just writing a summary of your previous posts?

Originally posted by Illuminatus I

This shows your mentality very well.
1. It's not a piece of paper.
2. By trampling on the Constitution, you're trampling on every American including all those who've sacrificed and died defending it.

1. It is a piece of paper. It was written on paper.

Don't you get tired of being wrong all the time???

The US Constitution was written on Vellum and not paper as you've claimed.

The five pages of the U.S. Constitution as well as the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, and the Articles of Confederation are written on parchment.
The term parchment is a general term for an animal skin which has been prepared for writing or printing. Parchment has been made for centuries, and is usually calf, goat, or sheep skin. The term vellum from the French veau refers to a parchment made from calf skin.

source: The National Archives.

Reading is fundamental



[edit on 26-5-2009 by jfj123]