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Cops forcefully drawing blood-drunk driving

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posted on May, 24 2009 @ 03:55 PM
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Cops forcefully drawing blood-drunk driving


blogs.dallasobserver.com

This Weekend, Dallas Police to Make Drunk Drivers an Offer They Can't Refuse.

A word of caution before you . out for the long Memorial Day weekend: It's also No-Refusal Weekend. Which means? Well, if Dallas police pull suspect you're drinking and driving, you'll be stuck with a butterfly needle attached to a vacuum-packed container, and two vials' worth of your blood will taken and tested. And, no, you can't refuse the test; hence the name, as discussed in our cover story on the very subject last month.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on May, 24 2009 @ 03:55 PM
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Come on... SERIOUSLY!?!?!?
This goes too far in my opinion. Police have had the use of breathalizers for years which have been very useful. But that's not good enough.
Taking blood is too invasive and unnecessary.

And the article says you CAN'T refuse. It doesn't even give you the option of an alternative test.


They also said the program will go full-time on September 1. Should pending legislation pass through the state Legislature, as expected, Dallas County will become a full-time needle-poking place.


I rarely drink and never drink and drive but just on principle, you will NEVER see me in Dallas until this garbage is repealed.

If you'd like some examples of how far they'll go, read this article
www.dallasobserver.com...

Some additional info
And if you'll notice MADD seems to be behind the Constitutional violations.
www.duiblog.com...

Florida Cops Plan to Draw Blood at Checkpoints
www.infowars.com...

If they suspect a driver is under the influence, they’ll offer an on-the-spot Breathalyzer. If drivers refuse, deputies will ask to draw blood from their arms.

“I think that’s really personal and I think that if you deny a Breathalyzer and you say that you don’t want that, I think that’s outrageous if they take blood without your consent,” driver Courtney Liddle said.

Attorney David Olson said that “would only be lawful if a warrant is issued by a judge.”

That’s just what deputies plan to do. They’ll actually drive to a judge’s home for a signature and return to the checkpoint.

Olson said drawing blood from drivers is usually done in extreme cases like homicides and fatal collisions.


Motorists Forced To Let Officers Draw Blood Samples At DUI Stops
www.motorists.org...

There have been an increasing number of police departments allowing their officers to draw blood samples from motorists under suspicion of a DUI/DWI. This takes place on the roadside as opposed to a hospital where there are trained medical professionals. It seems like a recipe for disaster to allow officers to do blood draws when they do not have adequate medical training. This has proven true in Arizona recently where a lawsuit has been filed to stop this practice.

According to Scripps News, a man developed a persistent infection at the site of a blood draw administered by a Pima County sheriff’s deputy. He has filed what is believed to be the first claim in Arizona against the practice, which could put local taxpayers on the hook for any damages.


I'm shocked that law enforcement personnel want to put themselves in this legal situation at all.
Cops are typically not trained to take blood which means they're putting the suspects health in jeapardy simply by taking the blood.
If the suspect has a blood born disease, everyone who could come into contact with the blood on the scene could be in danger.

This simply makes NO SENSE !!!

I'm not against reasonable approaches to curtailing drunken driving but this goes to the extreme.

blogs.dallasobserver.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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Wow. Just wow. I'm glad I'm Canadian. But since I'm curious, I have to ask: would shooting/fighting back against a cop restraining you be a crime, or a defense of your rights? Also, what about blood-transmitted infections like AIDS? And what's to stop them from keeping the blood for other nefarious purposes?



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by ShadeWolf
 


Yes.

You will get charged with Failure to Obey a Lawful Order.

If you touch the officer, it will be Assault on a Peace Officer.

This is exactly why I got out of law enforcement

[edit on 24/5/2009 by xxpigxx]



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 04:24 PM
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Eh, they are saving time... lol.

If you refuse the breathalyzer, they will take you to the station. If you refuse the breathalyzer at the station, they will then take blood from you anyway.

But, I would love to see an officer try to stick me with a needle on the side of the interstate... not going to happen.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by ShadeWolf
Wow. Just wow. I'm glad I'm Canadian. But since I'm curious, I have to ask: would shooting/fighting back against a cop restraining you be a crime,

Yes, if he has that supposedly legal warrant.


Also, what about blood-transmitted infections like AIDS?

Yes that should be a serious concern. As example, let's say the cop takes a vial of blood on the scene and drops it and the blood splatters. Now they need to call HAZ-MAT to cleanup the scene and all because MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) has gotten out of control.


And what's to stop them from keeping the blood for other nefarious purposes?

Absolutely nothing.
As example, they could plant it on another crime scene or they could even get your blood mixed up with someone else's and go down for something, someone else did.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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They have to have some way to determine if the person is drunk besides a hunch.

If you don't agree to the first test, how do they test you?

If you don't agree to any other tests, how do they test you?

It's a lot harder to get someone to forceful exhale into the Breathalyzer than it is to simply draw blood. They can refuse to breath out at the required sensitivity for the Breathalyzer, but one can not refuse to bleed.

Do you just get to walk away?

We're talking about people who don't appear in the proper condition to be driving a 3000 pound death machine.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 04:47 PM
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While I'm all for keeping drunks off the roads, it seems to me that it goes against 5th ammendment to force one, via blood taking, to testify against ones-self.
I know first hand, that the State says driving is a priviledge, not a right, however, I believe the Constitution says that the things not enumerated in the Constitution are relegated to the states.
Another slippery slope, and the NWO is winning this fight, by virtue of the zealots in MADD.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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I sort of agree with Illuminatus I, but with all of the horror stories about abusive and otherwise defective agents holding these new and enhanced powers, it reeks of 'horse before cart' syndrome to me.
First, screen your new recruits better and eliminate the abuse of power situations to reinstate public trust in these officers...THEN, we can talk about what level of authority is legit. As things are progressing, it seems that they don't really care about these abusive officers and enforcement is more subject to how much publicity a case has instead of what's right. Totally gives honest police men a bad name and probably ends up corrupting officers that would have otherwise been fine and upstanding officers.
Still, I am fully aware that driving is a privilege and not a right, so I just keep it low-pro.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 04:53 PM
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There not looking for alcohol there looking for illegal drugs.

The breathalyzer is useless for drugs and most drug addicts now this so the will allways ask for the breathalyzer.

The blood test is also good for those that mix drugs and alcohol as in if you blow a just less the border line for alcohol and they also find drugs they can call you DUI.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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I can't believe this! I'm a registered nurse and there are many places that don't allow licensed practical NURSES to draw blood. LPN's have to have specialized training on top of their nurses training to be certified for drawing blood and starting IV's. But we're going to let cops do it?!

It is possible to cause enough damage to someone by poking holes in the veins (or arteries-how would cops know the difference?) to cause someone to have to have their arm amputated.

Someone will just have to come get me out of jail. I'm not submitting to this at all. Ever!



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 05:12 PM
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In my state if you refuse big deal your guilty lose license.
I'm sure the the people from the civil liberties union will go after this one, especially if the person who is force to give blood is gay.
This is volation of rights, they needed a warrent, which meams waking a judge up if it is late, plus if go in front of that judge later look out.
Wecome to Nazi America.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 05:23 PM
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Well there's a simple way to not get your blood drawn, don't refuse the breathalyzer.
If you have nothing to hide you should have no reason to refuse it.
Unless you're one of those people who likes to instigate and make an issue out of small things like this to go on the typical "my rights" rant, and if you are you have no right to complain about your blood to be taken because you're the one who made it come to that.

How would people feel if they allowed the person to just go free upon refusal of the breathalyzer would THAT be ok, and would it be ok if they slammed into a mini van filled with a family or how about would it be ok if they ran you or someone you loved over, i mean it is THEIR personal right to not have their blood taken, and they refused the other test so I guess it would just be no big deal, I mean you wouldn't want to infringe on their rights or anything so the cost of your family becoming road pizza is no biggie.

No matter how they went about this, they'd be criticized.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 05:25 PM
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are there seriously people defending drunk drivers? and you're complaining about human rights? that is about as backwards as it gets.

i'd guess that you trust dna evidence in courts but yet you dont' want cops to test your blood before you sober up?



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 05:27 PM
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Yeah I wish those nazi tyranny[ snip]would try to stick a needle in me, not without a fight where some cops are going to get their noses busted in.


Mod Edit - removed profanity

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 24-5-2009 by elevatedone]



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by Mozzy
 


It's a simple matter of rights. I'm not defending drunk drivers, but the cops do not have the right or authority to order a blood test without consent or a warrant.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 05:29 PM
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My thoughts are in line with those of the post a. of me. I have had technicians make a real mess of my arms drawing blood and they have been trained for God's sake. Cops....drawing blood.....no way, not now, not ever!

I cannot believe that in the US you cannot legally refuse a blood test....given by a cop!!!!!!!!!

Say all you want about Texas, I'll stay right up here in the the North East



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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I don't drink and drive. In fact I seldom drink, period. I have no sympathy for those who do drink and drive and believe they should be prosecuted to the full extend of the law.

That said, it's already in place that if you're suspected of drinking while intoxicated and refuse a breathalyzer that you can be taken to the hospital where a blood test will be performed BY TRAINED PROFESSIONALS. You'll be billed for all of it, of course. In fact, if you fail a breathalyzer and believe the results to be in error, you can insist on a blood test to prove your innocence.

What I have a problem with is lack of sterile technique, untrained high school graduates with a gun and ego performing skills for which they have no real training. Why not just get one of the passersby to draw the drivers blood? Get the janitor. Call the plumber! COPS ARE NOT NURSES!!!!!COPS ARE NOT PHLEBOTOMISTS!!!

MADD is truly living up to its' name.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by Illuminatus I
They have to have some way to determine if the person is drunk besides a hunch.

Correct. Here are some tools they have available:

When may a police officer stop a driver for being under the influence?

Police may stop a driver for any violation of the vehicle code. They often stop intoxicated drivers for straddling lane markers, weaving between lanes, driving at excessive or very slow speeds, braking erratically and coming in close contact with objects or other vehicles. An officer may also have reason to suspect a driver is intoxicated if they observe a driver at the scene of an accident, or at a sobriety checkpoint.



How do police determine whether a driver is intoxicated?

Police use three methods to determine whether a driver is under the influence of alcohol or drugs. First, police may observe the driver for objective signs of intoxication. Objective signs of intoxication include a distinct odor of alcohol coming from the driver, red, watery eyes, and slurred speech. Second, police will assess a driver's ability to perform field sobriety tests. Field sobriety tests are scientifically designed to test a driver's balance and motor skills. Police may ask a driver to perform tasks such as walking heel-to-toe in a straight line, standing on one leg, or reciting the alphabet backwards. If a driver fails one or more of these tasks, the officer may request that the driver take a chemical test to measure the driver's blood alcohol content (BAC). A driver's BAC is tested by breath, blood, or urine and is measured by the percentage of alcohol in the blood by weight.



Are tests to determine whether a driver is intoxicated mandatory?

A driver is not required to submit to chemical testing. However, refusing the test may have serious consequences. In some states, refusal to submit to testing is an offense in and of itself. Failure to approve chemical testing may also result in more severe penalties, such as a longer period of license suspension or an increased jail sentence. Additionally, the jury may be able to consider evidence of the refusal as evidence of guilt.

www.justia.com...

So they have:

1. They often stop intoxicated drivers for straddling lane markers, weaving between lanes, driving at excessive or very slow speeds, braking erratically and coming in close contact with objects or other vehicles.
2. police may observe the driver for objective signs of intoxication.
3. Field sobriety tests
4. A driver's BAC is tested by breath, blood, or urine


If you don't agree to the first test, how do they test you?

See above. All are much safer then stabbing someone with a needle.


If you don't agree to any other tests, how do they test you?

Personally, I wouldn't mind a breathalizer after a field test. Breathalizers are non-invasive and results are determined immediately.


It's a lot harder to get someone to forceful exhale into the Breathalyzer than it is to simply draw blood.

How many people would have to hold you down to keep you perfectly still so they can stick you with a needle without you moving. If you move, a needle can rupture a vein, tear skin, etc.. In other words, do a lot of damage.

And if you don't submit, you'll suffer automatic consequences anyway so it's not like you're going to get off if you don't submit.


They can refuse to breath out at the required sensitivity for the Breathalyzer, but one can not refuse to bleed.

Do you just get to walk away?

No. Read above for a bit more details.


We're talking about people who don't appear in the proper condition to be driving a 3000 pound death machine.


We're also talking about the safety of everyone involved including the officers.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by Mozzy
are there seriously people defending drunk drivers? and you're complaining about human rights? that is about as backwards as it gets.

i'd guess that you trust dna evidence in courts but yet you dont' want cops to test your blood before you sober up?


I think you're missing the point. I think it's safe to say that we're all for putting drunk drivers away but you need to draw a line somewhere.

And having untrained cops taking blood on scene is DANGEROUS.



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