Uncounted US deaths that may be H1N1

reply to post by CultureD


I'm glad to hear that the woman's family decided to get their own pathologist to investigate; it would be nice if they could determine COD of the Norwegian's death through an independent party as well.

Lung tissue deterioration? I'm no MD but that seems strange for food poisoning...and unfortunately sounds like the sudden death theories of this thread and other postings...unless it's something like Legionaire's--but I don't know if that would cause such a rapid death.

I wonder (and hope) that they can test for H1N1 this late post-mortem.

Nice digging, Culture D

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Slightly off topic sorry...but just a related question, if all of us will have a pig virus inside us, will all diseases have pig influenced symptoms?

Will we snort instead of cough when we have a cold for example?

Will mud baths become more common?

Thank you, Sonjah. I found it odd for food poisoning, as well, and Thailand has a history of denying the presence of bugs- look how long it took for them to admit HIV was present in their population. And that is not racism- hell, the US denied it for some 8 years-

I thought of Legionnaire's as well, but complete lung congestion and rapid death like that is more consistent with flu.

I was unaware of the Norwegian death- do you have info or a link?

We're researching rhodeola, which is a root used in Scandanavia, Tibet, siberia, N. China- has been used for millenia- and is anti-viral, as well as an adaptogen- so it's odd to hear of a Norwegian dying- it's standard medicine there.

Would love your input- and thank you again- the numbers aren't adding up anywhere and it's good to ferret out some truth between us

NYC investigating the death of a baby who was hospitalized with flu:

NEW YORK - New York City's medical examiner is reportedly investigating whether swine flu caused the death of a Bronx baby.

www.newsday.com...

Anyone have any info on this one? Thanks


EDIT: to add that the child was turned over and found "purple". This means he wasn't getting enough oxygen- or was cyanotic. Cyanosis is a hallmark symptom and cause of death from H1N1. So many people in 1918 turned blue, purple or black just prior to dying that many thought it WAS the Black Death. But it was influenza. Again- with the American tourist to Thailand showing "100%" lung congestion in her path report, and a baby taking ill, becoming cyanotic and dying in just a few days, I have to think the virulence of this bug is changing.

[edit on 1-6-2009 by CultureD]

second edit for typos

[edit on 1-6-2009 by CultureD]

The NY toddler that died in may has turned blue similarly to 1918 flu victims. Surprisingly, his case have not been even commented in the media since the authorities said he was not infected with swine flu. I think the number of deaths linked to this new flu may be unimaginably higher than official numbers.

A medical examiner will determine if the 16-month-old boy who died shortly after arriving at Elmhurst Hospital in Queens is the second death from swine flu in New York City. Family members say the boy was turning blue as they rushed him to the hospital.

Source: Recombinomics

reply to post by CultureD


According to this report from NY Daily News, his death is confirmed to be linked to swine flu.

A Bronx infant has become the fifth New Yorker suffering from swine flu to die, the boy's family and an official close to his case told the Daily News yesterday. "The Health Department told us he died because of swine flu," she added.

Read more: "Baby's death is 5th linked to flu in city" - www.nydailynews.com...&A

Great info guys! I am also becoming alarmed at the lack of fatal cases being reported on in MSM. When the reports do come in, privacy concerns seem to trump a need for the public to understand that lives are being taken by this disease. It's easier to call cases mild when they don't have a name/sex/age/background to go with them.

Again the rapid deaths of some of these cases is very disturbing. Most of the confirmed fatalities were sick for weeks or months. If any of these quick deaths are from H1N1, that changes the game dramatically. I'm wondering if that may be a reason for not coming forward on some cases that are actually positive. I could see a real panic coming from a disease that can kill in 24 hrs.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Just wait until people start dropping dead from the vaccination that's coming. The same folks that brought us killer pet food and toxic childrens toys (China) are mass making a Swine Flu vaccination.

And Obama says he is against 'selective' vaccinations ....


Be afraid. Be very afraid!

I can't see the U.S. allowing a chinese vaccine. They are pretty strict regarding vaccines, and if someone is selling it "blackmarket" it is likely to be saline.

The U.S. pharma companies are busy working on a vaccine, and if they can get a heads up by copying China's version then great, China does not abide by copyright laws, so who cares if they like it.

Originally posted by Cameoii

Again the rapid deaths of some of these cases is very disturbing. Most of the confirmed fatalities were sick for weeks or months. If any of these quick deaths are from H1N1, that changes the game dramatically. I'm wondering if that may be a reason for not coming forward on some cases that are actually positive. I could see a real panic coming from a disease that can kill in 24 hrs.

There's a man from Jujuy, Argentina, that supposedly died from swine flu.
He went to a hospital and doctors told him he could go back home because his case was mild. The next day, his condition worsened and he went back to the hospital and died a few hours later.
He was in contact with a swine flu infected man from Chile and had all the swine flu sympoms, altough, the government is saying it is not very probable that his death is linked to swine flu (WHY?)

Antonio Risso Patrión, director del hospital, comentó que el caso "no simulaba que iba a ser tan grave", por lo que los médicos le dieron "el alta transitoria" al chofer. Al día siguiente, el hombre "volvió a ingresar" al centro de salud y murió a las pocas horas, agregó Rizo Patrones.

La Calle Online

reply to post by Cameoii


Cameoii--

You said what is exactly my concern- the deaths from flu have changed- they've gone from lengthy illness and hospitalization of persons with pre-existing conditions to rapid-onset infection, followed by organ failure (mostly pulmonary and/or cardiac) death, within a few days, accompanied by cyanosis- exactly like 1918. The game is changing rapidly, and in front of our eyes- in the N. hemisphere- off-season/ What's happening in the South, and how many cases are unreported?


Edit to comment that the cases in 1918 followed the same pattern- overthe summer, people took ill and died over a week or so. Once it ramped up, people would be well in the morning, and quite often dead within 24 hours. As I said- the game is changing in front of us. Even the MSM can't ignore this anymore- and god knows we can't.

Even CNN, Reuters, MSNBC, BBC, are finally reporting WHO's and CDC's fears that we should expct a big fall pandemic--just like 1918.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by CultureD]

reply to post by CultureD


In the south, we're just in the begining of a very chaotic situation. Here in South America, number of cases is increasing very fast, even though the official numbers don't show the reality. Real number of infected should be at least 3 times higher and, in some countries, like Brazil, there may be even 20 times more infected people. It's virtually impossible, in a country the size of Brazil, with a poor infrastructure, to test everybody with flu like symptons and, in this time of the year almost half the population, at least in the south, are experiencing some flu like symptoms.
There's one more death in South America, a man from Puerto Montt.

El Ministerio de Salud analiza la muerte de un hombre de 37 años que podría transformarse en la primera víctima fatal de la gripe AH1N1 en nuestro país, tras fallecer esta madrugada en el Hospital Base de Puerto Montt.

Cooperativa
It's very odd that in the same city - Puerto Montt, there are two more infected in very serious conditions, connected to ventilators.

Segundo caso grave de influenza humana en Puerto Montt es trasladado a Santiago

Coo perativa

Doesn't it seem that a deadlier, different strain of the virus is circulating in this city?

This article sounded unusual-

www.adn.com...

reply to post by winotka


That article was strange. It does lead to some serious questions, though. The homeless in any city are society's overlooked. How many homeless deaths don't make the papers? There are generally no family standing by asking why did my relative die. There wouldn't be many outraged citizens if the number of "natural deaths" of "bums" were to increase dramatically. Are there even any records kept of these types of deaths?

While not "scientific" nor "confirmed by TPTB," I believe that these members' accounts are sadly worthwhile for this thread:

- a healthy woman (after spending time in Mexico) suffers a stroke during yoga

- a healthy 40-year old man (after traveling) is found dead in his car--COD: heart attack; but evidence of vomiting blood is also present.

Please this link for more info.: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Wishing all the best of health during these very strange times--

reply to post by Cameoii


Cameoii-

I agree with you- it's one thing to withold info re: privacy- but when a global virus is killing (now) within 1-3 days, the public needs to know- like levels of classification- we now have "need to know". As in 1918, originally, people were ill for weeks before either succumbing to flu, or catching an opportunistic secondary bacterial infection, like pneumonia. And, like 1918, we are now seeing people dropping dead, cyanotic, within 72 hours. Time to get a bit more urgent, GOVERNMENTS and start telling the truth.

This is global; people are either exposed, infected or dying at FAR greater rates than are reported, and the general public NEEDS the truth- if it creates panic- fine. People will self-quarantine, stay away from work, etc. That alone could slow this down. It's dismal indeed that TPTB distrust their populices with the truth. Thank god for ATS, eh?

In all honesty.
The way they are playing this virus, the last thing they would do would be to hide the death count.
They would be trying to count every death they could to the virus to make people even more scared of it.

Sorry, but I think this thread is doing what the media have tried to do, and that is to play up the hysteria by looking for things that arn't really there.

reply to post by munkey66


As I've said before, you could be right about these cases being totally unrelated. We may be looking for something that isn't there. However, I disagree with your point that they will be trying to find new deaths to attribute to H1N1. Even the fatalities that are confirmed are being downplayed. Each time a death is recorded, especially recently, there is always an accompanying quote of "underlying conditions", and "we are still investigating the role of H1N1 played in this death". If they trully wanted to scare the public, it wouldn't be hard to do. All they would need to do is say "X amount of people died from the virus today". Not qualifying it with excuses for the deaths would frighten more people.

reply to post by nanbei


Nanbei--

This is great info- I have wondered at the virulence of the virus in S.A. We on't get any info about it here, other than the article on Reuters that one person has died in Chile. I've wondered how in countries like Brazil, proper numbers could be accounted for. Then I thought about all of the intrepid "virus hunters" who, in the 60s, went into Brazil and found the source of many, many diseases, accounted for ALL those infected, and changed epidemiology. I think it's denial and an utter lack of will (or care, to be honest) by those who COULD investigate. Brazil is not a "devloped" country to the WHO- despite how most humans feel about the isse (i.e.- we actually care about people globally, whether they have a "modern" infrastructure or not....). I don't think, unfortunately, that WHO or CDC will do ANYTHING until they see how quickly the virus can or has mutated to produce rapid death in those infected. I'm ashamed for the North and the West- the arrogance of the people who would allow the Southern Hemisphere to be the in vivo lab by which we measure the threat to the "developed world".

Peace, wellness and blessings to you.

---C

reply to post by sonjah1


Sonjah1-

I believe these accounts are absolutely relevant to the discussion, as sad as they are. Healthy adults don't die without cause. Sure, someone could throw a clot, have a rare underlying risk, etc., but to have SO MANY smells fishy to me.

And yes, flu kills opportunistically, but as we all know and have posted- de novo A strains go after the young and healthy. I think the puzzle pieces fit all too well. Good points- however difficult to read or express.

reply to post by winotka


I'd say this article is more than unusual.

I know Alaska has a high rate of alcohol-related deaths- but this is a cluster- looks like community transmission to me- covered easily by a weak excuse by the police that the booze caught up with them.

Great catch!