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Female Air Force Academy graduate dies in Afghanistan

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posted on May, 25 2009 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I think you forgot to insult his mom while you were comparing war to petting zoos and vacations and insulting his intelligence and maturity level.


...............


Back on topic, people here like to say that the troops who have died wouldn't have if they weren't "Imperialists" who are "attacking the country". This woman died in a road-side attack and her sole reason for being there was "teaching Afghan forces how to handle military intelligence." She wasn't attacking anyone, she was teaching. So much for everyone in the military who goes to war trying to advance their "Imperialist" ideals, huh?




posted on May, 25 2009 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I think you forgot to insult his mom while you were comparing war to petting zoos and vacations and insulting his intelligence and maturity level.


...............


Back on topic, people here like to say that the troops who have died wouldn't have if they weren't "Imperialists" who are "attacking the country". This woman died in a road-side attack and her sole reason for being there was "teaching Afghan forces how to handle military intelligence." She wasn't attacking anyone, she was teaching. So much for everyone in the military who goes to war trying to advance their "Imperialist" ideals, huh?


I think you forgot to read his less than chartible comments, could that be because you simply don't agree with my position on the war?

Do you know what was going on in Beirut in 1981 and Sarejevo in 1991, they weren't exactly what you would call 'vacation' destinations.

Maturity does come in to play obviously when someone is either too young to have lived through the history or has failed to find the time to learn the history.

If we ever pull out of Afghanistan, and that's a big if the way we are running the war for political reasons you can't even begin to understand or tolerate discussion of I don't give the corrupt Puppet Regime we installed Militarily in Afghanistan standing for a year on it's own. It's own Army isn't going to put up a fight for that regime no matter how many dresses and lip stick you put on it.

tthread466251

thread466309/pg1

These are two excellent threads on Afghanistan and what's really at stake over there authored by Slayer69

If you really want to discuss the war Jenna, please learn something real about it first.

Then I will be happy to discuss it with you.

In the meantime the Born on the 4th of July just doesn't impress me, or the silly people that think because they are young and have seen some small bit of combat have some right to try to attempt to dominate citizens in demeaning ways because they imagine there experiences give them some understanding and insight that supercedes all other forms of logic, intelligent, thought and question.

I asked your friend to relax and try to enjoin a rationed discussion/debate on the issues of the war.

He chose to ignore it and to attack me instead. So I responded back to his nonsense.

If he can't conduct intelligent and mannered debate in the future, I will just put him on ignore.

Same goes for you Jenna.

You want to discuss the issues, discuss them, study them, consider them, debate them, but please try to keep the idealogies and religious mumbo jumbo out of it.

That's just stuff to manipulate the masses for cannon fodder duty.

This is ATS not Sesame Street.



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 01:29 AM
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Geez, an entire post of insults. I'm so impressed. You used big words and everything, and only managed to have a few spelling mistakes this time around. I'm sure your Special Ed teachers are quite proud of you today. Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.



Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Brother I was in Beirut in 81 and in Sarajevo in 91 for vacation! If Santa brought you the Parker Brothers Game for Christmas you still wouldn't have a clue!



Wow, on vacation. That's impressive. Bet you got a nice t-shirt with that, didn't you? Doesn't mean dick, toecheese. Go back to playing Nerf Wars.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Actually it means First Citizen of Rome! You would be surprised the doors that open for me.


Yeah, I bet it does. The doors to the local Toys 'R' Us.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Yes you are a real credit to our Military no wonder recruitment is down.


Actually, my squadron is turning them away. Recruitment is way up!! We can be quite selective at times.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Actually they would enjoy telling you about the things I have done that have rubbed off on them!


You can keep the stories of you rubbing one off with your friends to those "other" boards. This is ATS, and sort of a "family" board.

The people here don't come here for a "reload current page" of "Bull#o - The Discussion Forum for the Ninja Lifestyle!"

SAOAR.



Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Sounds like little league kid's stuff to me. My vacations make that look like a trip to a petting zoo.


Spoken like a true pogue. I mean, what's next, gonna try to impress the 13 year old guys with whatever martial art you claim to be an expert in, you internet warrior? Or are you going to teach us all how to aussie rappel while firing two weapons and belaying with your butt cheeks?


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Hey don't worry one day when you get old enough you might be able to do real fun stuff too, in the meantime stick to the petting zoo.


See my above quote, Walter.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Yeah Mr. I don't think, what was she trained to do, how to get blown up in three easy steps?


Yeah, yuck it up over a dead troop. Once again, the fact you've never been in the military is showing. I mean, I bet you weren't even in the KISS Army.

Did you actually take time to find out what she was doing there? Or is the death of an AF LT just a joke? I'm curious.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Send a girl to do a man's job, guess you boys need the help though huh.


Most of the women in the Air Force are probably tougher troops than you.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Hey I guess I missed that Victory Day in Afghanistan and Iraq Celebration, when did we win these wars again?


Geez, did we have a timetable for getting things done? I didn't know it all had to be wrapped up in a nice bow by a certain date? You claim to have read all these books on different military campaigns; did you miss that part? Nation building, etc, takes time. It's not going to be done overnight. Might want to hit those books again!

At times it does sound like a s**t sandwich, but I'm in; I'll fight anyone. Jihad goes both ways...



Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Hey if I can get Santa to start you out with Candy Land this Christmas you think you might be ready for a Clue in a few years?


Now that line is priceless! I'll have to write it down so my friends will be in stitches over your sense of humor. And I'd like "Clue" for Christmas; I was never a big fan of "Candyland".



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 01:34 AM
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reply to post by jerico65
 


Alrighty then I asked you to loose the attitude and discuss the real issues in a gentlemanly fashion and you chose to respond back in an attempt to dominate through personal attack.

I answered you back on your level once!

I asked you once.

I told you once.

This is where I put you on ignore.

Have a nice life. Ciao.



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 01:40 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Alrighty then I asked you to loose the attitude and discuss the real issues in a gentlemanly fashion and you chose to respond back in an attempt to dominate through personal attack.


It's "lose"!!!! "Lose the attitude"!! "Loose" is like, "Jerico65's screw is loose".

For someone that write all fancy with the big words and whatnot, your basic English grammar sucks. Unless English is a second language for you; then I apologize.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I answered you back on your level once!

I asked you once.

I told you once.

This is where I put you on ignore.

Have a nice life. Ciao.


You ignored me after that? Geez, I don't even have the obnoxious dial up to "Med".



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You want to discuss the issues, discuss them, study them, consider them, debate them, but please try to keep the idealogies and religious mumbo jumbo out of it.


Oh ok, so since I didn't jump in agreeing with everything you said and instead pointed out that this woman was killed for doing nothing more than teaching, I'm some how spreading my idealogy and religious mumbo jumbo? Gee that makes perfect sense. How dare that woman go over there and teach their forces what to do with the information they have. Is that better?


By all means, feel free to put me on ignore. I promise you it won't hurt my feelings in the least. If you post ridiculous comparisons that are easily misinterpreted, you should expect to receive replies that point out the ridiculousness of those comparisons. Saying what you mean goes a long way in a discussion and gets you much further than hiding behind insults and attacks, based on your reply however you would rather go with the insults and attacks than have a discussion.



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by Jenna
 




Oh ok, so since I didn't jump in agreeing with everything you said and instead pointed out that this woman was killed for doing nothing more than teaching, I'm some how spreading my idealogy and religious mumbo jumbo? Gee that makes perfect sense. How dare that woman go over there and teach their forces what to do with the information they have. Is that better?


Well Jenna it's not about how dare that woman, it's about whether it's a wise strategy or not.

The Taliban was a perhaps 50,000 member strong paramilitary orginization when we got involved in Afghanistan 7 years ago that was already batteling against two seperate domestic forces in Afghanistan one of which (The Northern Alliance) we installed as a government.

Now I don't feel you are considering just how a 50,000 member paramilitary group with no manufacturing or industry to support it has managed to remain not only virtually intact against our Military and far supperior arms and technology but on multiple occassions why they were litterally allowed to escape intact as full strength fighting units.

No, I don't want one American over there least of all this poor unfortunate deceased young woman laying down their lives when if someone took the opportunity to really study what's going on, on the ground over there commerce wise, it's pretty clear we are an occupying force of basically Security Gaurds for a Royal Dutch Shell Oil Pipeline (built post invasion) and huge copper reserves sold to the Chinese by the newly installed Government who just happen to be our number one financial creditor here in the United States. Conversely Jenna it was the Chinese who bought the oil leases and wells and refineries in Iraq post Invasion.

China is bankrolling these wars for the U.S., and China is profiting off of the U.S. installed Governments in these places.

Is that what you want our troops used for Jenna?

I have invited you to learn more about these issues and even provided you a couple of great threads where you could start?

When are you going to choose to better educate yourself on the issues that effect America which is what makes a vote powerful when someone casts one here in America?

You have a lot of passion for the issue, maybe you could put that passion to a lot better use by learning about every nuance and underlying motivating factor so you just don't have to rail against what you often feel are failed strategies on the part of our Politicians when you can first discover why and to what ends they are employing the strategies that they are.

No one is trying to be disrespectful to our troops Jenna or others, but part of the responsibility of living in a free democratic representative Republic is about educating yourself as to what the Republic is truly doing so you can interact with it in a way that it's leadership and direction is reflective of the people's will.

The people's will becomes mute and meaningless when the people themselves don't really know what's going on or why, and won't learn themselves, and won't tolerate anyone else attempting to learn.

Finally Jenna, if the young woman were over there handing out sandals to school children, it's still part of an armed effort that kills people, as a member of the Military who has one reason for being, to kill people.

The issue is why are we over there killing people. In the past all you have been able to focus on is the Talliban and Muslims are a threat to this country and what ever we do over there we have a right to do so because of that.

Once again I invite you to learn the issues and open your mind.



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Well Jenna it's not about how dare that woman, it's about whether it's a wise strategy or not.


I would think that teaching them to do things on their own so we can get our troops out of there is a very wise thing to do. I don't want anymore people sent over there either, but the fact is we can't just pull out on a moments notice without making sure they can take over successfully. Otherwise we'll be sent right back over there when the governments are taken over. An ounce of prevention and all that.


The Taliban was a perhaps 50,000 member strong paramilitary orginization when we got involved ...


We don't know how many members they had with any degree of certainty. It may have been 50k, it may have been 100k, or it may have been even more. There isn't some master list of all their members as far as I am aware, so it's entirely possible that they had many more people than we think they did 7 years ago and it's entirely possible that they had the means to sustain themselves all this time. It's also entirely possible that there are people out there providing them with funds, equipment, and other means of support so that they are fully equipped and sustained at all times.


it's pretty clear we are an occupying force


That is not what we went there to do. We didn't go over there to be occupiers, or to play security guard, which is something I'm sure you are fully aware of. The unfortunate reality is that when a government is deposed, the country is unstable for months afterward at the very least and years at the most.

Which is worse: deposing a country's government and sticking around to help them rebuild or deposing a government and leaving the country on it's own with no help whatsoever? Which do you think would result in the most deaths? Which would result in the worst scenario possible for the people of that country?

That is why we are still in Iraq, we made the mess we should help clean it up. As for Afghanistan, that should have been taken care of years ago. The war in Iraq got us side-tracked and no one cared about it until recently. It's only been in the last year or so that people suddenly remembered that we are fighting there too.


China is bankrolling these wars for the U.S., and China is profiting off of the U.S. installed Governments in these places.


That's an issue that should be taken up with China, not our military. We cannot control China any more than we can control who dies in a road side bomb.


Is that what you want our troops used for Jenna?


Personally I don't want them used at all unless absolutely necessary. Unfortunately, neither the government nor the top brass listen to me or give a hoot what my opinion is on the subject. Were it up to me every one of them would be home already.


When are you going to choose to better educate yourself on the issues that effect America which is what makes a vote powerful when someone casts one here in America?


When are you going to stop assuming that you are so much more educated about this than anyone else? You know what assuming does.


You have a lot of passion for the issue, maybe you could put that passion to a lot better use by learning about every nuance and underlying motivating factor


Yes I do. And I do take the time to learn about the things I am passionate about. But I also don't make the mistake of imagining I am more knowledgeable about things than others or that my version is the only correct version.


No one is trying to be disrespectful to our troops


On the contrary, I see it happen every single day several times a day. Especially here. People fear what they do not understand. Few people who have never served in the military truly understand what it is to be in the military. It's not their fault they don't truly understand it, but it is their fault that they imagine they do and assign labels and motives to those who are enlisted that are only real in their imagination. All the study in the world is no comparison for real world experience.


Finally Jenna, if the young woman were over there handing out sandals to school children, it's still part of an armed effort that kills people, as a member of the Military who has one reason for being, to kill people.


Then I suppose that we should get rid of religion, after all it's killed millions over the years. So no more missionaries, priests, or churches (or their equivalents for the rest of the worlds religions), they are part of an organization that has killed people. And we can't forget medicine, since people die of overdose, misdiagnoses, and taking the incorrect medicine every day. So no more doctors, clinics, hospitals, or medications, they are all part of an organization that has killed people. Then there's vehicles, they kill thousands every day. So no more of those or you're supporting an organization that kills people.

If we stopped everything that kills people none of us would ever leave our houses. I don't see anyone rushing to be outraged when one of our own people are killed, only when someone from the middle East is killed. If it's one of ours, then it's our fault for being there. If it's one of theirs, then it's still our fault for being there. Why is that I wonder?

The military's sole purpose is not to kill people, it is to protect the nation. Whether or not they are being misused is an entirely different issue, and one I would likely agree with you on.

edit: Spelling

[edit on 25-5-2009 by Jenna]



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 05:31 PM
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This soldier is just as dead and her death is just as meaningless as every other, junk or no junk between her legs. That's the real tragedy of this story. Politics don't matter to dead people.

PPT, the words under your name actually do mean supreme moral authority, and you've spelled it incorrectly to boot. Loose the extra C. This was a power granted to Roman emperors after the fall of the republic. The emperor was indeed known as first citizen, or "princeps" in Latin; at least you got that right. You know, for someone who has studied every military campaign since Ur, you sure make a lot of spelling mistakes when referencing military terminology.



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by Orwells Ghost
 


Actually without the C it's just authority, with the C it becomes the title of Supreme Moral Authority which was granted to the Emperor who was also the first citizen of Rome.

This was after the fall of the Republic.

Oh by the way Spelling is in room 222, History is in Room 515, two different courses my friend.



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 06:07 PM
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Didn't your History courses require reading comprehension and written assignments? I know mine did.



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 06:25 PM
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reply to post by Orwells Ghost
 


I only got as far as the seventh grade my friend in school.

I am self taught in most things, I also type 102 words a minute, self taught as well, but due to political reasons I was never able to attend High School or the rest of Junior High school.

One of my former employers was a card carrying member of MENSA and he one day said, you are very well read but I can tell you haven't been well schooled because your pronunciation is off on a lot of the bigger multi-syllable words you use.

Most of my employer's including some Rhodes Scholars refuse to believe I didn't graduate High School and attend at least some College because I am better read on a very wide range of topics than most people.

I apologize if my poor spelling offends you.



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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Hey man, no offense taken. Thirst for knowledge is the surest sign of intelligence; spelling, book smarts and diplomas are window dressing. I really try not to concern myself with such things, I am simply guilty of a petty attack on a fellow member. I perceived your previous posts as rather condescending in manner and decided to reply in kind. My apologies.

I still feel this death is a senseless tragedy, and no greater for the victim being female, but what is war but senseless tragedy. Do I believe this is a war for freedom and liberty? No. More like a cash grab with some mayhem thrown in for kicks. That said, anyone willing to die for a cause deserves some modicum of respect, no matter their cause. After all it is the motive that is the greater concern. And someone who dies doing what they believe to be right will always be a patriot.



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by Orwells Ghost
Hey man, no offense taken. Thirst for knowledge is the surest sign of intelligence; spelling, book smarts and diplomas are window dressing. I really try not to concern myself with such things, I am simply guilty of a petty attack on a fellow member. I perceived your previous posts as rather condescending in manner and decided to reply in kind. My apologies.

I still feel this death is a senseless tragedy, and no greater for the victim being female, but what is war but senseless tragedy. Do I believe this is a war for freedom and liberty? No. More like a cash grab with some mayhem thrown in for kicks. That said, anyone willing to die for a cause deserves some modicum of respect, no matter their cause. After all it is the motive that is the greater concern. And someone who dies doing what they believe to be right will always be a patriot.


No need to apologize my friend, my spelling sucks if I don’t take the time to write it out in a word processor first and I may not be the emperor of Rome but I have a great shot at being the King of the run on sentence!

I have no shortage of respect for men and women who place themselves in harm’s way for the Nation though sometimes they imagine I do when I won’t always subscribe to the might makes right, or you weren’t there supposition that some of them tend to lean on when someone won’t take their position in an intelligent debate.

I abhor having to be confrontational with anyone, I feel that all parties in a confrontation winner and looser alike loose when debates and discussions or negotiations become confrontational. You might have won the argument but you generally have lost a friend or a chance to make one, or even created an enemy in the process or lost the deal.

Yet at the same time I simply refuse to be dominated by the crass or belligerent or demeaning type characters that are simply looking to subvert those to their views in their diatribes rather than honestly trying to enlist someone willingly by providing a level of information accurately that makes their view truly appealing to someone who has an independent mind.

Having said that I feel that certain inalienable rights only become inalienable when you personally make a stand for yourself each and every time to they come under attack in order to retain them, and in my humble opinion far to many Americans these days have failed in that responsibility.

Democracy according to the Greeks becomes increasingly effective when all parties can speak their minds honestly and openly. In today’s politically correct society more and more people are abdicating their inalienable rights to question, accuse, theorize, equate, and challenge those ideas, people and things that they secretly feel are unfair to them or unfair to someone else.

I don’t see anything Patriotic in the Patriot Act. I see it as an attack on people’s inalienable rights in a fear based attempt to get people to focus on their fears and the consequences of their fears, rather than focus on their strengths and the potentials of their strengths.

Very often people will tell me it’s not American to question things that clearly have not met constitutional standards but the government is enacting them in to law.

Very often people will tell me if I won’t go along with what the Government or mainstream media or religion purports on an issue I am a terrorist, or a foreigner, or a racist or a bigot or some pansy, or some pacifist…in other words, I don’t have the right to question, accuse, theorize, equate and challenge the rhetoric or doctrines they promote and subscribe too.

I don’t think most people ask very good questions, or probe very far beneath the surface and often don’t even want to know, because often they don’t even care about things that will effect others in life and death and quality of life ways, and often eventually they themselves when the process involved of providing that veneer they don’t want to peak under is a process that ultimately hides from them things that they would very much benefit from knowing.

I sure don’t want to be confrontational with anyone, but I sure don’t want to simply have to submit to everyone and anyone because they have a predilection to attempt to dominate through confrontation.

I have had to take exception to the one individual’s comments and tactics on another couple of threads. Ultimately if some people can’t intimidate you into subscribing to their view and have nothing qualitative to support their view, the then love to bog their opponent down in petty personal attacks.

Right now my own version of a Patriot would be someone demanding to know the real reasons why we are in Afghanistan and Iraq, who is challenging the government to meet the constitutional thresholds it hasn’t, as opposed to simply participating in yet another arm of the government as it continues to operate without proper oversight or legality.

My own personal view of a Patriot would be someone fighting against the Patriot Act and the Special Interest and Foreign Special Interests that seem to have a strangle hold on the political process.

Not everyone might agree with my definition of what a Patriot is, but Rome fell from within and not from without.

Right now I strongly believe the best place to fight for America and the American way of life is right here in America and Afghanistan and Iraq…are just a little too far away to be relative to that battle.

I don’t mind a person who disagrees with me. That’s their inalienable right, I just mind a person who imagines they have some moral imperative to assign a false motivation to my views who becomes insulting in the process while they repeat the same old canned on CNN message, and refuse to delve in to it further.

I have been fighting for my rights all my life, in large part because I was raised in my earliest formative years with Orwell’s ghost. I have been fighting against 1984 since 1976 and still am in 2009. You don’t have to be in the Military to be a warrior or a Patriot; you just have to be willing to fight for what Patriots fought for. Patriots fought for their freedom and inalienable rights, and I have yet to see one Afghani, or one Iraqi or any combination of them that have threatened mine. I sure have encountered a lot of people who have right here in the good old U.S. of A. and far too many of them worked or work for the Government.

If I can’t beat them, I am not joining them, and I am one person who is not going to go down without a fight.

The pen is far mightier than the sword and the mind the greatest weapon.

We live more and more in a world where words are actively being suppressed and attacked and the mind is discouraged from thinking and learning.

That’s what I am fighting against. That’s what I think every one the world over ought to be fighting against.

Thanks for sharing.



posted on May, 26 2009 @ 02:19 PM
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Delete. Fat fingered the wrong button!

[edit on 26-5-2009 by jerico65]



posted on May, 28 2009 @ 03:03 AM
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As a fellow alumni of the Academy, I believe she knew her mission and was devoted to serving her country. I found that most cadets did not make it through the Academy if they were doing it to impress their parents. Those types were usually out in a month or so. It's too grueling to use parents as a motivator. You can be sure she was smart, and we lost a great American when a stupid bomb took her out.

I wish we would get to work with Pakistan and rid Afghanistan of the Taliban and Osama ben Laden (if he is still alive). Afghanistan needs another cash crop besides opium, also.

A moment of silence for the death of another American patriot......



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