Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before saying its torture

reply to post by goldbomb444


I stand by the "useful idiots" part.

So I ask you, what would you do if the situation I detailed did happen to you? (and don't believe for one second that this hasn't happened to innocent people.)

reply to post by goldbomb444


When Obama guts the military, takes away our First & Second Amendment rights and allows us the "choice " to kill our future before it's even born (or after for that matter)....who or what is going to protect us then?

reply to post by goldbomb444


Oh, so F(u)ck me and now you want to have a civil conversation?

We're still a country of laws and there are still lawyers willing to defend the citizens and the Constitution. I'm sure mistakes have happened, but the truth will come out.

Originally posted by satchboogie2
reply to post by goldbomb444

 

When Obama guts the military, takes away our First & Second Amendment rights and allows us the "choice " to kill our future before it's even born (or after for that matter)....who or what is going to protect us then?

Way to avoid the question.

When has Obama ever said he wanted to take away the 1st and 2nd amendment, directly or indirectly?

reply to post by goldbomb444


Oh Please! The liberals in this country have been trying to undo our right to keep and bear arms for decades. If you don't think they're going to try harder than ever in the near future, I suggest you open your eyes and watch closely. They aren't going to do it openly. Oh no...they'll pass laws taxing or outlawing ammo. Make the guns useless by taking away the bullets.

And the first amendment. Let's see...they already have the entire print and 9/10 of the television media in their pocket. Now they want to go after shutting up the only real conservative voices in this country by some kind of fairness doctrine to put talk radio out of business.

But back to your query...
I would get legal help in fighting for my innocence. We are still a nation of laws (I think). I'm sure people have been wrongly accused. It seems to me people get wrongly accused all the time and most of it has nothing to do with the Patriot act.

How many people do you know that have been wrongly accused of terrorism?

Originally posted by satchboogie2
I can not believe the ignorance that spills out of this website every minute of every day...unbelievable.
Maybe we should bake Mohammad some chocolate chip cookies! I'm sure that will get us the information we're after. How is something that lasts only up to 14 seconds, doesn't leave a mark, doesn't injure or kill the person and gets results...be called torture? We train our own service people using water boarding. Just because some bigmouth talker says it's torture we all throw common sense and the ability to reason out the window!?

When the first nuke goes off on American soil because the cookies didn't work, you morons will be stuck between a rock and Obama. Who are you going to blame then? George Bush?

Useful idiots...being lead by the nose to your own funeral.

I'd be more then happy to respond to your post with the following:

So the CIA did indeed torture Abu Zubaida, the first al-Qaeda terrorist suspect to have been waterboarded. So says John Kiriakou, the first former CIA employee directly involved in the questioning of "high-value" al-Qaeda detainees to speak out publicly. He minced no words last week in calling the CIA's "enhanced interrogation techniques" what they are.

But did they work? Torture's defenders, including the wannabe tough guys who write Fox's "24," insist that the rough stuff gets results. "It was like flipping a switch," said Kiriakou about Abu Zubaida's response to being waterboarded. But the al-Qaeda operative's confessions -- descriptions of fantastic plots from a man who intelligence analysts were convinced was mentally ill -- probably didn't give the CIA any actionable intelligence. Of course, we may never know the whole truth, since the CIA destroyed the videotapes of Abu Zubaida's interrogation.

Actually, no. Even Hitler's notorious secret police, the Gestapo got most of their information from public tips, informers and interagency cooperation and not from torture.

www.washingtonpost.com...

So even the infamous gestapo didn't get most of their intelligence from torture.

In recent interviews with NEWSWEEK reporters, U.S. intelligence officers say they have little—if any—evidence that useful intelligence has been obtained using techniques generally understood to be torture. It is clear, for instance, that Al Qaeda operations chief Khalid Shaikh Mohammed (KSM) was subjected to harsh interrogation techniques, including waterboarding. His interrogators even threatened, à la Jack Bauer, to go after his family. (KSM reportedly shrugged off the threat to his family—he would meet them in heaven, he said.) KSM did reveal some names and plots. But they haven’t panned out as all that threatening: one such plot was a plan by an Al Qaeda operative to cut down the Brooklyn Bridge—with a blow torch. Intelligence officials could never be sure if KSM was holding back on more serious threats, or just didn’t know of any.

www.newsweek.com...

"I've kept my mouth shut about all this for seven years," Soufan says. But now, with the declassification of Justice memos and the public assertions by Cheney and others that "enhanced" techniques worked, Soufan feels compelled to speak out. "I was in the middle of this, and it's not true that these [aggressive] techniques were effective," he says. "We were able to get the information about Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in a couple of days. We didn't have to do any of this [torture].

www.huffingtonpost.com...

No one has yet offered any validated evidence that torture produces reliable intelligence. While torture apologists frequently make the claim that torture saves lives, that assertion is directly contradicted by many Army, FBI, and CIA professionals who have actually interrogated al Qaeda captives. Exhibit A is the torture-extracted confession of Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, an al Qaeda captive who told the CIA in 2001, having been "rendered" to the tender mercies of Egypt, that Saddam Hussein had trained al Qaeda to use WMD. It appears that this confession was the only information upon which, in late 2002, the president, the vice president, and the secretary of state repeatedly claimed that "credible evidence" supported that claim, even though a now-declassified Defense Intelligence Agency report from February 2002 questioned the reliability of the confession because it was likely obtained under torture. In January 2004, al-Libi recanted his "confession," and a month later, the CIA recalled all intelligence reports based on his statements.

www.alternet.org...

So based on all this, we can determine that torture does NOT work and the experts are saying that it is costing the lives of American soldiers....possibly in the THOUSANDS !!!

This is the legacy bush and cheney are leaving behind. Good soldiers who died because of their bad, ignorant, incorrect decisions.

I myself have been accused of terrorism. Another student and I were doing a social experiment in a local mall that consisted of small automated robots. We had PERMISSION from mall security and mall management to do this. Well, someone called the cops because they thought it was a bomb. After the cops checked the robots out, they destroyed them and got a court order to search our house. When we asked what we were accused of, they stated "terrorism". We watched while cops ripped through our stuff trying to find bombs. Not cool, and this was only a minor thing. Imagine if they decided that the robots were dangerous and decided that we were working for Al-Queda...what in the hell would we have done then? We were obviously innocent of everything except trying to get a good grade (which we did...highest in the class in fact). We would have had nothing to tell interrogators, but I don't think that would have stopped them.

And good luck getting legal help if you are accused of terrorism under the Patriot Act (which your buddy, George Bush signed into law).

Originally posted by goldbomb444
reply to post by satchboogie2

 

You know, I am usually able to keep my cool on this website, and I have only said this to one other person until now.

F(u)ck you.

I hope that under the patriot act you are held and tortured for something you had nothing to do with. And I hope no one believes you as you're crying that you are innocent. Maybe only then you and the other ass holes that condone torture will wake up and realize why it should not be used.

[edit on 27-5-2009 by goldbomb444]

I share your frustration

It's like talking to a brick wall with a mental disability.

Originally posted by goldbomb444
So I ask you, what would you do if the situation I detailed did happen to you? (and don't believe for one second that this hasn't happened to innocent people.)

Oh it has happened to innocent people-you are correct.

Here's an example:

Mr. Arar, a Syrian-born Canadian, is the most well-known victim of the Bush administration’s notorious policy of extraordinary rendition, or the outsourcing of interrogations to foreign governments known to use torture. Former President George W. Bush and his aides stubbornly refused to admit the grave injustice done to Mr. Arar. President Obama must do better.

Mr. Arar was seized at Kennedy International Airport in 2002 as he tried to change planes on his way home to Canada from a family vacation. He was held in solitary confinement and subjected to harsh questioning before being sent to Syria. He was tortured there and imprisoned for nearly a year in an underground cell the size of a grave until the Syrians finally let him go.

www.nytimes.com...

reply to post by jfj123



CIA Confirms What We All Already Know: Waterboarding Works

This is really going to piss them Lefties off — the CIA has confirmed that the waterboarding of Muslim terrorists Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Ramzi Binalshibh, and Abu Zubaydah saved Americans’ lives.

The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of “enhanced techniques” of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) — including the use of waterboarding — caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.

Before he was waterboarded, when KSM was asked about planned attacks on the United States, he ominously told his CIA interrogators, “Soon, you will know.”

According to the previously classified May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that was released by President Barack Obama last week, the thwarted attack — which KSM called the “Second Wave”– planned “ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles.”

Again — waterboarding is NOT torture. It’s uncomfortable, it’s scary. But when it’s over, you take a deep breath, and then walk back to your Club Med cell in time for afternoon prayers and tea.

And, again, waterboarding WORKS.




So answer me this: How exactly does waterboarding cost the lives of American soldiers?

Originally posted by satchboogie2
reply to post by goldbomb444

 

Oh, so F(u)ck me and now you want to have a civil conversation?

We're still a country of laws and there are still lawyers willing to defend the citizens and the Constitution. I'm sure mistakes have happened, but the truth will come out.

Mistakes???? are you kidding me?
Premeditated kidnapping and torture cannot, under any circumstances, EVER, in any reality, be considered a "mistake".

You really need to start reading what we're posting here and take it seriously.

Have you ever read this before?

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

Then they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
I did not protest;
I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out for me.

You could be next....do you get that???? It's happened before and if we don't learn from it, we'll allow it to be repeated.

reply to post by satchboogie2


The same can be argued for anything. If I break one of your fingers, you could suck it up and walk back to your cell. Is that not torture?

When all this debating started about whether it is torture or not, I decided I would try it to see if it is indeed torture. My step-grandpa served in the navy and agreed to perform the waterboarding on me. Unless you actually go through it, there is no way that you could understand how bad it really is. That was only one time and when I didn't want any more, it was stopped. Torture victims don't have that luxury.

[edit on 27-5-2009 by goldbomb444]

Originally posted by satchboogie2

But back to your query...
I would get legal help in fighting for my innocence.

Sorry you would not have access to legal council. Now what will you do?

We are still a nation of laws (I think).

That's what we're trying to get through to you. That is slipping away. The bush administration did more to wipe out our rights then any other in our nations history.

I'm sure people have been wrongly accused. It seems to me people get wrongly accused all the time and most of it has nothing to do with the Patriot act.

But if it does, you have no recourse. You go to jail. You get tortured. You cannot do anything about it. So now how do you feel about it?

How many people do you know that have been wrongly accused of terrorism?

I've posted one example. There are many more.
As a matter of fact, there are millions of Americans on the terror watch list. Do you honestly think that there are millions of American citizens who are terrorists?

Originally posted by satchboogie2
reply to post by jfj123

 

CIA Confirms What We All Already Know: Waterboarding Works

Actually no they don't.

Ali Soufan, a former FBI counterterrorism agent and interrogator, testified that President George W. Bush and Justice Department lawyers were wrong when they said that waterboarding and other tactics used on one suspect provided some key pieces of intelligence about al-Qaida following the Sept. 11 attacks.

Testifying behind a screen to protect his identity, Soufan said the techniques touted by the Bush administration as perhaps its most effective weapon against terrorism were actually slow, ineffective and unreliable. He said that he and a CIA agent gleaned much if not all of the critical information from suspected al-Qaida chieftain Abu Zubaydah before the coercive techniques were initiated.

Soufan, now a private security consultant, also said it was outside contractors working for the CIA who used the coercive tactics, and that he and the CIA official working with him protested. But the tactics backfired, Soufan said, prompting Zubaydah to stop talking.

www.military.com...

I can post plenty of other info that states both the FBI and CIA agree that water boarding is ineffective.

This is really going to piss them Lefties off — the CIA has confirmed that the waterboarding of Muslim terrorists Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Ramzi Binalshibh, and Abu Zubaydah saved Americans’ lives.

Not true.

So answer me this: How exactly does waterboarding cost the lives of American soldiers?

Sure, just watch this video

It'll explain everything

reply to post by yellowcard


Mancow is the fool who thought he was better than Stern. I've heard both of them on the radio and Mancow is annoying and has the out-moded typical radio host voice. Anybody who agrees to be waterboarded is a complete a@@hole. Everyone in the country and around the world know waterboarding is torture! It should have lasted at least thirty seconds.

Next: Hannity- Did you hear his "April Fools" speech last year or so? Here 's a sample-
"I want all people in this country to have medical care."
"I want children with deformities to get free treatment in the U.S."
ad nauseum

Limberger: "I would never resort to using insurance to pay for my doctor and I would never go
on unemployment and people who use drugs shouldn't get treatment from the government, etc." Then they
want to put him in jail for scamming doctors for oxywhatever.

Bush, Cheney, all of them.

yellow card says..."if Sean would denounce it as torture if it was done to him. I know that he said he was going to do it for charity, but he has yet to do so. If Hannity says it's torture it could send a shockwave through the right wing, I think. I'm sure that despite it being torture he may still say it's needed for national security."

Sean isn't going to admit he's wrong...his pride and ego would never be caught in such a situation. If he goes ahead with the *charity* *lmao...I sooooooo doubt he will unless he's shamed into sticking to his own words* If he goes ahead with the charity he'll flunk out like *ManCow* but come up with some excuse as to why it's not torture and like you said...why it's still needed!

I wish Sean Hannity had the nuts to try it. I get tired of hearing him say it's no big deal. You'd think he'd at least try it for charity. BUT NOOOO.

Originally posted by satchboogie2
reply to post by jfj123

 

Again — waterboarding is NOT torture. It’s uncomfortable, it’s scary. But when it’s over, you take a deep breath, and then walk back to your Club Med cell in time for afternoon prayers and tea.

And, again, waterboarding WORKS.

So answer me this: How exactly does waterboarding cost the lives of American soldiers?

Dude! It's on tape! Quit ignoring the evidence in front of you. Listen to what Mancow said. Watch the tape! Not only that, search the web for a Fox News tape where one of their news guys got waterboarded a few years back. He came to the same conclusion Mancow did, and that everyone that's been waterboarded is saying: It's drowning... It's torture.

What's your mental block with "truth?" It is what it is! Quit beating a dead horse.

The answer to your question is also accessible on news sites and news shows... It's pretty much clear now that Abu Ghraib, torture, Guantanamo, have been the GREATEST recruiting tools for terror organizations.

C'mon! Some people are arguing points that have been slain, chewed up, and spit out for weeks now!

I don't know if waterboarding is truly torture, but back when I was in junior high school we had something similar called "the swirly".

The "swirly" involved an unwilling victim, a supply of water and lots of hysterical screaming. It was never used to extract information, it was simply employed because the "swirly" victim likely had been acting like a jack-ass and deserved it.

Unlike the classic waterboarding technique allegedly employed by the CIA, the "swirly" did not require a board or blindfold. Two guys simply picked up the victim and plunged him headfirst into the nearest toilet bowl, then flushed the toilet. The swirling toilet water resulted in the victim having a corkscrew shaped hair "swirly" when extracted from the bowl.

The final, and most difficult, part of the technique required the personnel performing the "swirly" to quickly run for their lives, while hysterically laughing.

Later on, I'll describe the infamous "atomic sit-up" technique.